homebrew autostop/credit add

[electronrancher]

hey all,

i plan to cook up my own chip - i'm an engineer, and frankly don't like connecting a PIC straight to a 12v logic signal. it's probably fine for reel stop because that is a 5v signal, but 12v on the poor drain of the pic is bound to be bad news over time.

anyway - i wanted to see how much interest there is in this, good or bad. i don't want to share my source if it's going to kill a thriving business, but open source is always better IMO - you get cooler features faster.

let me know - right now i'm documenting the coin add and reel stop functions on my rodeo machine, and will probably start coding something up today.

the last thing i wanted to do was to make the game auto-play using the chip, so i could extract statistics over a long time. guess you'd just have to fill the hopper every day or so from the chip's winnings.

[Tulsa]

Auto-stop is a slithery beast that's best squashed if seen. Auto-credit is cute puppy like beast that you can't help but want to pet.

[electronrancher]

hehe - well from a logic sense they're both square waves. but thanks, i get the message!

[logicprobe]

I think seeing open source for programs like that would be great.

Which PIC do you plan on using?
And assembly or C?

[electronrancher]

probably the f84, although at the moment the code is small enough (uses few lines) to be built into a 12508/509 if you're handy at pic coding. and i'll write it in assembly, because it's mostly timing and i'd like it to be precise.

[Zeron Stargate]

I think seeing open source for programs like that would be great.

Which PIC do you plan on using?
And assembly or C?

I vote on assembly for the open source..

I think it would be easier for someone new ... just because
of all the WYSIWYG clients out there for free

Then again C has the same things too.

MAIN IDEA: Lets get everyone that wants to try involved
everyones 2 cents is worth a million bucks when put together

[cwstnsko]

Auto-stop is a slithery beast that's best squashed if seen. Auto-credit is cute puppy like beast that you can't help but want to pet.

Just a rhetorical question.

Why is it that on this board, Cyclic Usage is perfectly accepted as a simple "Americanization" to increase the fun of pachinko machines, but Auto-Stop is deemed a violation of the very nature of a pachislo machine?

I'm not looking to start or engage in a debate, just sharing my perception.

[azlew]

Auto-stop is a slithery beast that's best squashed if seen. Auto-credit is cute puppy like beast that you can't help but want to pet.

I agree 2000 percent ! Lets forget this Auto-Stop crud and get it going on the auto credit the right way !!

[electronrancher]

hey - auto stop is cool! i think it's lame when the machine slips a reel right past that third 7 just because it wasn't time to win - i'd prefer full randomization, IMO!

anyway - time for a progress update
1) credit add, and streaming credit add routines work fine. to tell the truth, i had no doubt they would - the timing is so simple!
2) 16f84 may be a bad choice because of the oscillator. it either needs external crystal or clock. i tried to use RC just to make it cheap & simple, but the 5v rail on my machine was so bad it needed tweaking just to get it working! this suggests that it would be hell for other users to implement, that didn't really understand the mechanics, just wanted a plug & play.
3) 12c508 is probably the next chip i'll use because of the internal osc, but the I/O's are so few! boo-hoo, i wanted the whole machine to be played by the chip for statistical info dump.. well maybe in the future.
4) i want a survey on how to trigger the credit add. coin return? start lever? i don't actually like the center buttons but it's fine with me if that's what the people like. also - do we want 3, 10, 50 credits if we use the three buttons? let me know, the scheme is improved by feedback.

[MrGneiss]

Just a rhetorical question.

Why is it that on this board, Cyclic Usage is perfectly accepted as a simple "Americanization" to increase the fun of pachinko machines, but Auto-Stop is deemed a violation of the very nature of a pachislo machine?

I'm not looking to start or engage in a debate, just sharing my perception.

If I'm not mistaken, cyclic is what many pachinko owners in Japan use.

P.S. I accidentally pushed the Thank you button instead of the quote button. Not that you don't deserve thanks, any one that adopts a pachi deserves Thanks.

[Tulsa]

Just a rhetorical question.

Why is it that on this board, Cyclic Usage is perfectly accepted as a simple "Americanization" to increase the fun of pachinko machines, but Auto-Stop is deemed a violation of the very nature of a pachislo machine?

I'm not looking to start or engage in a debate, just sharing my perception.

A. It's on this board because we support Pachislos not slot machines.
B. I put it up because it's true.
C. What in the world makes you think that "cyclic" is something "American"?

If you're trying to make a reference to cyclic vs auto-stop it would be much more accurate to compare cyclic vs auto-credit. As both functions remove the "PITA" out of the play, i.e., loading tokens and retreiving balls. Also the cyclic modification was invented in Japan, not America. It does not "Americanize" a pachinko as an auto-stop mode does with a pachislo.

Now auto-stop is inherently against the style of play of these machines at their very core. It screws with the play in the bonus rounds, it eliminates the skill of eye-shooting and the interactive pleasure that particular function brings to the player.

There is absolutely nothing of value in an auto-stop if you like to play a Pachislo. There are plenty of "American" slot machines that inherently incorporate auto-stop that do not effect their style of play. They don't have bonus rounds to screw up and they have no interactive nature about them. This makes them no fun to play at home vs a pachislo and why we have no section for discussion about them.

[Tulsa]

hey - auto stop is cool! i think it's lame when the machine slips a reel right past that third 7 just because it wasn't time to win - i'd prefer full randomization, IMO!

HUH?

Why would you think that having a auto-stop would prevent reel slipping? Other than controlling the voltage triggers to simulate the pressing of the stop button, you are not effecting the logic of the outcome of the spin. The reels will still slip, auto-stopped or not.

[Zeron Stargate]

You can always down load one of those flash Pachislo
and rewrite the code...Then ya make it do whatever ya want.

or better yet

just wire up all you machines with an I/O port
( I know this can be done, don't know how though)
to your laptop that way you could sit in the middle
of the room and play....no wait a min.
I mean control all the machines at once
there wouldn't be any playing

[electronrancher]

HUH?

Why would you think that having a auto-stop would prevent reel slipping? Other than controlling the voltage triggers to simulate the pressing of the stop button, you are not effecting the logic of the outcome of the spin. The reels will still slip, auto-stopped or not.

No, I just meant that if you have no choice, it's more interesting from a chance perspective to let something random decide. I understand the fun of the skill shot, don't get me wrong!

Anyway - let's avoid autostop for the time being. What's the best way to interface the credit add?

[Zeron Stargate]

No, I just meant that if you have no choice, it's more interesting from a chance perspective to let something random decide. I understand the fun of the skill shot, don't get me wrong!

Anyway - let's avoid autostop for the time being. What's the best way to interface the credit add?

Good recovery... Auto Credit Good
we need a very simple non evasive solution
that everyone could use ie. "Plug and Play"

[Firewire]

For the credit question...I initally thought 50, but it might be neat to only have 3 at a time so you can still drop coins in if you desire.

[Zeron Stargate]

The option for 50 is good but your right dropping tokens is
part of the experience

Everyone is wanting an Auto Credit option and I can understand the reasoning
behind this. I have become tired of having to open the door and get more tokens.

But part of owning the Pashislo is the fun of actually putting the tokens in the
slot and hearing the sound and seeing the lights.
If you mod the unit to be push button Auto Credit you loose this ambieance.

That is why I did this for now
http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6766

Now if a chip was found that would allow both then

[logicprobe]

IMHO, if you're gonna do auto-credit... why not do a full 50 (or 53)?
For those that still enjoy dropping tokens, they could always have that option anyway... with however many credits remain after playing it down a while.
I thought the point of auto-credit was to eliminate tokens in, if you WANT to.
But, yeah... it shouldn't interfere with or disable the regular token sensing.

For the trigger, two thoughts:
Just a basic N.O. contact switch (that you could always replace with a key switch if you wanted to control the "freeplay")
OR... use one of those otherwise useless 1 or 2 bet buttons that still hang around on the max bet machines.

[electronrancher]

ok logicprobe - let me pose a question. what happens if the machine has 20 credits and a user accidentally triggers another 50? does it give a CP fault since it knows the coin rejector will activate after 50, yet the chip says tokens are still streaming in!

that's the only reason i have smaller options, really. for the case where you don't need a full 50.

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Next - Big request for any tech-wizards out there!!!
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My generic circuit will work with any normally-high machine, regardless of voltage levels. However, I see that the IGT's use 24v normally low. I am interested in how this signal is made - can anyone with an IGT using 24v normally low get in touch with me so I can get a few details? Thanks a ton!

[Tulsa]

I would think it's only going to allow for the 53 max. Now to answer your question with a question, even if it did go into an error, why if you have 20 credits would you be pusing the buttons to do this to start with?