P machines - A new pachinko era

[Denhomer]

I could find a lot on the forum regarding the new regulation on pachinko & pachislo in Japan which caused the change from CR to P machines (P機). By 2021, these P machines seem to be mandatory in Japan.
It seems that the new regulation aims to make pachinko less addictive by decreasing the long term winnings. At the same time, some minimum payouts are also defined.
In my understanding, this will promote shorter play, and limit both loss and winnings.

Some reading I found : https://pachiseven.jp/articles/detail/8790 and https://biz-journal.jp/gj/2019/12/post_133859.html and https://nana-press.com/post/32789
Some copy paste in case the sites don't work or google translate fails for you:

[Pachinko ball output limit]
After 1 hour: 33% to 220%
After 4 hours: 40% to 150%
After 10 hours: 50% to 133%

Changes from CR machine
Jackpot 1 payout per times upper limit of 2 , 400 shots ￫ 1 , 500 rounds
Big hit round maximum 16R → 10R

Features of P machine
Up to 6 levels of jackpot probability can be set as with pachislot
Hundreds of balls are circulated in the table and the number of balls is managed by the built-in weighing machine.

Also, from some other info found it seems the P actually would stand for "Personal" and that it would be a kind of full cyclic machine with 6 settings (same as pachislo) that just stores your winnings somehow.
See also https://taishu.jp/articles/-/65219?page=1

I think this might make it a lot easier for a home parlor, but it remains to be seen what this means for the future of pachinko.

Did anyone else find some info? What is your opinion?

[MrGneiss]

Very interesting!! Hopefully one of our members in Japan can tell us more!!

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[daverob]

It's interesting that most of the changes are just different ways of specifying the payout limits, and all the 'P' machines released so far are pretty much the same as the old CR machines, just with a change in the payout pattern, so not much different from comparing a traditional machine to a 'light' version.

What concerns me as a collector, is the 'Enclosed' machines. It seems that they will be equivalent to cyclic machines, with a number of balls captive in the machine, and payment and payouts handled virtually. So these machines will require a method of taking payment from the player (card/cash input?), and returning payouts (crediting card, paper tickets, tokens?). Without this, the machines will not release the balls and you will not be able to play in a home setting.

Hopefully the 'Enclosed' type machines will have a 'freeplay' mode built in, otherwise machines may need to be modified for home use, and this could get complicated.

With a bit of luck there will be a sufficient number of players and pachinko hall owners who prefer the machines with actual ball payouts, and there will be a choice of 'Enclosed' or traditional payout machines.

[Denhomer]

Hopefully the 'Enclosed' type machines will have a 'freeplay' mode built in, otherwise machines may need to be modified for home use, and this could get complicated.

I assume most of us will just order daverob's dongle rev 3... right?

[daverob]

I assume most of us will just order daverob's dongle rev 3... right?

It won't be the rev 3, that one's been around for a year already and I was hoping that I'd get more than a year or two out of the new design before having to start on a rev 4.

The CR interface can only handle payout of 'loan' balls, if the new machines also need to credit back the 'prize' balls, then this will need a whole new interface, which will need to be reverse engineered, new dongle hardware designed, firmware written and so on... (all assuming I can get hold of a 'P' machine that is suitable to reverse engineer!)

As I said, this could get complicated.

[billyp203]

We have not brought one over, well, no one has asked for one yet. But I'm figuring soon... someone here is kicking the tires on the Friday the 13th "P" machine.

Check with Brandon at Modern Pachinko, he has gotten at least one and says they require a machine specific key to set odds. Maybe he can shed some light on the new machines?

[lotsoballs]

I’ve got a newer Takao frame (fits Queen’s Blade 2 and Senran Kagura) that *appears* to be compatible with both CR and P cells (P-Numa). Seems odd they would make 2 completely different frames; one normal and one cyclic but look exactly alike. (Why would a cyclic machine by design have a reward overflow tray? )

I was thinking about getting one but decided it’s too similar to Tenryu Infinity which I’ve already got.




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[MrGneiss]

Aren't there already ball management systems for parlors where the balls can drain out of the front tray into a hole in the shelf where the ball tray would normally go and count the balls and stuff?? Maybe they are hoping parlors move to this system for now since the first two years of P machines still work like normal machines.. And then later maybe force manufacturers to change how machines work?? No clue what I'm talking about, just a thought??

[daverob]

I doubt many pachinko halls will be changing their stands any time soon. The ones that are operating with trays of balls will remain that way, and the ones that have ball counters and recirculation systems built into the shelf under the machine will keep them for now, as all machines (including the current 'P' models) are in standard CR type frames and work with the normal card readers and parlor systems they have already, and there's no point spending any money updating these systems if the new 'enclosed' P machines are going to make the ball handling systems obsolete.

I think even when the 'enclosed' machines are released, all games will be released with the option of a CR compatible frame (as current 'P' models are) for a good few years while the pachinko halls take time to update their ball handling and credit systems.

Anyway this is all speculation for now. We won't know whether this will affect home use of machines until 'P' machines are produced in non-CR compatible frames, and then it will be another few years before they are taken out of the pachinko halls and available for export.

Even then with current pricing it might be a few more years after that before I can justify the cost to buy one just to strip down and reverse engineer. The machine that gave it's life and revealed the secrets to enable the card reader emulator to be born cost me £40 (about $55US), there may be more reluctance to de-solder parts and inject signals into a $1000 machine.

[PekoJPF]

There are no changes to ball operations nor will there be. Encloaed balls in machines causes a number of problems with the machine and the gameplay.

There is a limit of 10 rounds now which reduces the payout of bonuses. Lack of profit is circumvented by more Koatari rushes as well as higher continuation chances. I've also noticed easier to hit start pockets.

Nobody has mentioned Yu-Time 遊タイム which is becoming more frequent on higher spec machines. Once something like 800 games have been played with no win, the machine will go ibto a long Jitan of 1000 games plus. This ensures a win comes in in anout 98% of cases.