What's with all the DIY ball lifters

[centauri61032]

For the gear not sure about pla but I used petg and I have 7 machines that have been running that setup with the custom boards for about a year now. The gear still looks perfect. After about a year of play. I have run dozens of fevers. It works just fine for me. The board has a reversal for if a jam occurred I used it once because my 6 yr old threw a screw in the hopper and it caused a jam. And when that happened the fuse blew and I just had to replace a simple fuse. Reverse the motor with the switch for 1 sec and take the screw out. And I don't miss manually dumping and filling.

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I hadn't even considered a reversing switch. But it is a great idea. I haven't needed one on mine yet. I'll have to consider adding one. If for no other reason, to unload the balls in the tube someday.

FWIW - I'll also say that I feel the price being asked for this unit on eBay does seem reasonable to me. Sure, if you have a 3d printer (or access to one), you can DIY for quite a bit less. Plus you'll have to design and build your own circuitry for it. I went the DIY route, and don't regret doing so at all. But the design being sold IS solid, as well as the components being used. And there is a significant time investment in printing all the pieces needed. So all things considered, I feel the price being asked is pretty fair.

[samslack]

I tested many of the ssrs and found many had issues. Nothing wrong w diy. Were all here because we all love that aspect. Let's face it to get into pachinko you need to be clever and crafty . In all sorts of ways. Either making cabinets or fixing broken stuff that parts don't exist.

I also added indicator lights so you can see what the unit is doing. That was initialy made while I was testing so I didn't have to bend down and try and peek at it. It just seemed handy. And when all 3 leds on it flash rapidly there is a jam. I simulated this with a tester unit.



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[centauri61032]

Just wondering...
What kind of setup are you using to prevent overfilling the feeder tray?
Obviously some kind of switch to kill the lift motor is in order. But I was wondering how you accomplish this?
I'm having a hard time figuring out how to handle that part of my design.
Thanks!

[samslack]

I removed many of the balls as they are not all needed. Initially when dumping pre lifter. I had 500 + i took all of them out except the top inner tray of the machine. This way the lifter just spits backup. I have no cut off sensor. I tried to keep it as simple as I could.

You really only need enough to be in the playfield while the lifter is pushing them back up.

How many you have in your machine ?

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[centauri61032]

I'm not sure really. I think I got something like 50-100 with the machine, and then bought another 250. I don't have a lot in it at the moment, but was thinking I needed more eventually.
I thought of adding more, since the payouts could get quite large if/whenever you get into the jackpot game. And it would stink to have the feeder run out during the bonus. But I haven't actually gotten a bonus game yet, so I really have no idea how many balls could possibly even be won, or how many you need to have on hand to make sure you can pay them all out.

[samslack]

Only my top tray is full i hit many fevers. Never ever ran out. Now my most current machine is Aria 2 Scarlett ammo it rains balls during fever. Not sure if newer games are more intense.

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[centauri61032]

Yeah, 'fevers'. That's the word I couldn't remember.
Good info. Thanks! I'll just start by filling the top tray only with balls, and working with that quantity for a total. It makes sense that is all I should need.
Thanks!
-Ray

[samslack]

Its all about the right amount or balance. To many and its becomes too heavy and adds too much resistance.

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[williamlacy]

Since I have a 3d printer, I have built the one on Thingiverse that you linked to. The guy is also selling the same model on eBay. His eBay version also includes all the other bits, as well as a custom circuit board. For some reason, he is using a 5v proximity sensor to drive a 12v motor. I didn't understand that extra complexity, so I got a 12v proximity detector instead. You still need some kind of relay (I have solid state), because the motor current draw exceeds the range of the sensor. But you don't have to mess with an extra buck converter to change the voltage. There is also a small piece of rod or wire that needs to be slid into a small hole hear the elbow at the bottom. This guides the balls into the elbow. It isn't shown in his Thingiverse post. You also will have to come up with some kind of switch to stop the lifter if the top bin gets full.
Overall, this lifter works very well. I do wonder how long the gear part will last, since I just printed everything with PLA. But printing another gear and replacing it would be a breeze, so I'm not too concerned about it.
The motor, sensor, relay, etc are all available on Amazon.

So in your design, do you need the circuit board? Sorry for this question (I am not that good with the circuitry side of this), how do you connect the relay? Also, is there a way to tie this into the existing power supply of the machine so a second power adapter is not needed?

[Moparformances]

So in your design, do you need the circuit board? Sorry for this question (I am not that good with the circuitry side of this), how do you connect the relay? Also, is there a way to tie this into the existing power supply of the machine so a second power adapter is not needed?

nearly 3 years for a first post
Welcome to Pachitalk

[samslack]

Well if your using the thingaverse design above. You need a circuit board as its designed to work with an approach sensor. A micro switch will not work unless you rig it somehow.

3 years ago I tested one with a simple micro switch and found it to be terribly unreliable.

Now sure I'm sure you can create a very simple relay or something. Some even as simple as 2 rails to allow the balls to make contact. Whatever works.

I know many think the circuitry is a bit over kill and much but I'm happy with them. I play all the time and have been for over a year with this design. I never have any issues. And can get fever after fever. There is really no money to be made with them. We produced an initial batch at cost.

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[judremy]

Well if your using the thingaverse design above. You need a circuit board as its designed to work with an approach sensor. A micro switch will not work unless you rig it somehow.

3 years ago I tested one with a simple micro switch and found it to be terribly unreliable.

Now sure I'm sure you can create a very simple relay or something. Some even as simple as 2 rails to allow the balls to make contact. Whatever works.

I know many think the circuitry is a bit over kill and much but I'm happy with them. I play all the time and have been for over a year with this design. I never have any issues. And can get fever after fever. There is really no money to be made with them. We produced an initial batch at cost.

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Any chance someone can post the instructions for the circuitboard design and what type of plastic to print it out of? As well, I am having a little trouble understanding how this all goes together. A video would be great. I can make one on my YT channel once I know how to assemble these.

[daverob]

Any chance someone can post the instructions for the circuitboard design

A cheap alternative to a custom circuit board to control the motor from a proximity sensor would be a L298N 'H Bridge Driver' board from eBay. Buy the version with the big chip on a heatsink (not the SMD type), parallel the inputs and outputs and you'll be good to drive a 31ZY motor like the one used in this design. You'll need to use a potential divider circuit with a pair of resistors to get the 12v output from the proximity sensor down to the 5v level inputs for the driver board, but apart from that the rest is just wiring.

[atlanticom]

I recently printed and assembled the thingiverse ball lifter, but did not use the electrical components originally specified. I thought all that 5 volt triggering logic was silly. Instead I used a LJ18A3-8-Z/BY proximity sensor, a 12v SPDT relay, a 12v 40rpm worm geared motor, and a 1N4001 diode. Although poorly drawn (because it was just for my mental benefit when working out the circuit), the circuit works like this: The proximity sensor detects a ball and energizes a relay. The relay then completes the circuit to energize the motor. The diode is there to shunt any feedback current generated when the motor is denergized (being nice to the relay contacts It's a simple, low cost circuit that works beautifully.

I have some design improvements I want to make to the thingiverse ball lifter, but haven't redrawn all the parts yet. I wanted to get some experience using it as originally published first - to get some understanding of the good and bad design qualities. I think the split gear design along with the rod to 'guide' the balls out of the gear was elegant. However, I ended up redrawing that gear so it could be printed as three separate pieces so I didn't need to remove scaffolding from the channel (my motor also had a different size shaft, so I had to redraw anyway.)

The proximity sensor I used was a PNP version, but only because I had already purchased it to use with my own original ball lifter design (which failed spectacularly LOL, but was a great project to learn FreeCAD.) You could easily use an NPN version sensor and simply use it to power the negative side of the relay coil instead.)

Hope this helps someone.

IMG_0317.jpg

[atlanticom]

FYI: One more comment regarding the thingiverse design. I found the distance between the sensor and the balls was too far (and therefore the sensor did not detect balls in the basket.) To salvage the print, I had to cut out some of the plastic so the head of the sensor was much closer to to the balls.

[Drunkenclam]

I recently printed and assembled the thingiverse ball lifter, but did not use the electrical components originally specified. I thought all that 5 volt triggering logic was silly. Instead I used a LJ18A3-8-Z/BY proximity sensor, a 12v SPDT relay, a 12v 40rpm worm geared motor, and a 1N4001 diode. Although poorly drawn (because it was just for my mental benefit when working out the circuit), the circuit works like this: The proximity sensor detects a ball and energizes a relay. The relay then completes the circuit to energize the motor. The diode is there to shunt any feedback current generated when the motor is denergized (being nice to the relay contacts It's a simple, low cost circuit that works beautifully.

I have some design improvements I want to make to the thingiverse ball lifter, but haven't redrawn all the parts yet. I wanted to get some experience using it as originally published first - to get some understanding of the good and bad design qualities. I think the split gear design along with the rod to 'guide' the balls out of the gear was elegant. However, I ended up redrawing that gear so it could be printed as three separate pieces so I didn't need to remove scaffolding from the channel (my motor also had a different size shaft, so I had to redraw anyway.)

The proximity sensor I used was a PNP version, but only because I had already purchased it to use with my own original ball lifter design (which failed spectacularly LOL, but was a great project to learn FreeCAD.) You could easily use an NPN version sensor and simply use it to power the negative side of the relay coil instead.)

Hope this helps someone.

IMG_0317.jpg

The problem with this is a lot or relays coils are a higher spec than the switching current of the sensor. The sensor linked is 300ma most relays draw 500ma or higher.
I did find some that have a coil of 200ma. whaich are the ones I use on my lifters.

[atlanticom]

The problem with this is a lot or relays coils are a higher spec than the switching current of the sensor. The sensor linked is 300ma most relays draw 500ma or higher.
I did find some that have a coil of 200ma. which are the ones I use on my lifters.

@Drunkenclam, I've read this argument before and perhaps you (and others) are sourcing much larger relays than I am referring to.

With all due respect, I can attest to the fact that standard DIY/"maker-type" 12v relays operate at a much lower current draw (HJR-3FF-S-Z or similar) than your assertion. I just measured one of my typical spare relays and it has a coil resistance of 402.5 ohms. Rounding to 400ohm, I = V / R or 12 / 400 = 0.03A or 30 mA (theoretically.) Testing the actual current draw when energized, my meter measured 37 mA. So I can say with complete assurance that this strategy will not overload the output of the prox. sensor and should perform with reasonable longevity.

Here are a few pic of the size/style of relay I'm referring to.

IMG_0319 (1).jpgIMG_0320.jpg

Shared in positive spirit and intent

[Drunkenclam]

Yep. I like to over proof my stuff. All din rail mounted connectors, fuses and relays. Gives me room for future expansion, then world domination.

[atlanticom]

I certainly concede that an industrial-grade setup, such as one might need for world domination, may indeed require super-strength relays/contactors that pull high current to close.

In this case however, I believe it's safe to say that the rest of us backroom ball pushers who are building on the thingiverse design will be easily and inexpensively satisfied with these commonly found 12v relays to drive their motors as shared above. Consequently, the 500mA coil warning should not apply here nor dissuade others from using this approach to successfully build their device.

https://youtube.com/shorts/mfQRZnnKoWk

64808171950__D9CBBDEE-1E4F-4955-B6A4-850764D6F6B2.JPG64808174110__BE8D536A-4085-45A6-879B-73C931D8DD98.JPG

Great to be part of this community. Thanks to all for the constructive feedback!

[daverob]

You've also got to be careful with some of these proximity sensors. I bought a few to try out on a design I'm working on, and one of them is a Chinese clone of an Omron sensor using the same part number. The Omron datasheet specifies it with a 300mA output, and the eBay sellers quote this figure. The label on the actual sensor that was supplied gives a Chinese manufacturer name, and their data sheet gives a 150mA output current specification.

I'd also recommend adding a 0.1uF 50v ceramic capacitor as close as possible to the motor terminals to cut down on the electrical noise generated by the motor (which could affect your cellphone reception and wifi signals). If the motor is supplied with power leads already attached you may also need to wind the leads through a ferrite core and/or open up the motor and add a capacitor directly across the brushes inside.