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Thread: Making balls payout

  1. #1
    Tokie Owens mr_storm's Avatar
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    Default Making balls payout

    So I know I can open the front glass and put a ball in one of the holes to make 10 balls come out, but is there a way to do this via a push button connected to a couple of pins?

    Thanks

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    Scowlin' Jean Hornigold hanabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Not sure I understand what you are wanting to do, are You testing to see if it pays out by triggering a payout and it does?

    or are you trying to dispense balls for play? Using a Daverob dongle?

    Or is it a 'cheat button' thing just to demonstrate the fever rounds maybe

    Angie ...
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    Tokie Owens mr_storm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    So I am familiar with the dave rob dongle, but I want something less sophisticated, just a push button to dispense 10 balls (or some other gate value) into the tray, I assume each gate has a microswitch that the ball triggers to payout the balls, I want to solder on 2 wires to this, I guess? to make it dispense the balls

  4. #4
    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    There is a more basic smart dongle that does that, But by the time you've ordered it and shipped it from Japan. It would be cheaper to buy the daverob one.
    The ball detectors/gate switches on really old machines are micro switches but after about mid 90s they moved on to proximity style switches, even these don't give the processor a normally open or normally closed circuit, but processor measures a change in resistance across the sensor terminals when a ball passes through.

    also on the newer machines there is a cel ball exit sensor. If the machine detects more balls going through a pocket than leaving the back of the cell, it throws the machine in to error as it thinks someone is pulling something in and out of the pocket.

    Putting a short across it may give you problems and cause damage so I do not recommend that.

    One daverob's webpage there is a break down of the CR port terminal inputs/outputs.
    in theory you could make something yourself to do the job. But it wouldn't be as simple as 2 wires and a switch.
    Last edited by Drunkenclam; 03-25-2019 at 01:10 PM.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    I did play around with fooling the sensors before I worked on the dongle. You can do it if you replace the sensor with a switch with an appropriate value of series resistor, but that would take the sensor out of the circuit and you would no longer get a payout for those pockets. I could never get it to work reliably with both the sensor and a switch in the circuit at the same time. Triggering the switch would mess up the power to the sensor, and the results were a bit unpredictable. After having to reset the machine too many times after error codes and alarms, I figured the only way I was going to get reliable payouts was to do it the same way they do in the Japanese Pachinko Halls and use the card reader interface.

    I'm sure there would be a way of getting it to work, but you'd probably need a circuit that monitors the original sensor, along with the extra switch, and this circuit then triggers the pachinko machines sensor monitoring circuit when either is active. If your machine has a second sensor in the ball path, you'd then need to do the same with that one as well to prevent the machine from setting off an alarm, but there would likely need to be a delay between the two sensors being triggered.

    So the TLDR version is that it probably can be done, but is likely to be significantly more complicated than simply adding a switch.

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    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    This should work on machines without tamper protection, if you can't beat em, join em! solution.jpg

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Quote Originally Posted by rockston View Post
    This should work on machines without tamper protection, if you can't beat em, join em!
    It won't work like this. Pachinko machines that are old enough to not have tamper protection all use two wire ball sensors, so you'd need to design an interface circuit to convert between the output of your three wire sensor and the input of the pachinko that is designed for a two wire sensor, and if you need to design an interface circuit, then you might as well just use a simple switch as the input to your circuit.

    Even if you used an identical two wire sensor as is used in the pachinko machine, they're not designed to be connected in parallel. The two wire sensor takes a specific amount of power from the ball detection circuit in the pachinko machine, when a ball passes through the sensor, the amount of power taken changes significantly, and this is detected by the input circuit. If you put a second sensor in parallel, the power levels will not match what the input circuit is designed to detect, and it simply won't work. If you put a regular switch in parallel, then when triggered this will affect the amount of power available to the original sensor, and it will behave unpredictably until it's power supply has stabilised.

    It can be done (on the 15+ year old machines that do not have a second sensor for tamper protection), the simplest method is to trace the signal from the sensor through the input circuit on the pachinko, and add your cheat switch after the signal has been converted to a regular logic level signal, but don't be surprised if you still get alarms and error codes if your button is pressed for a longer or shorter duration than the pachinko expects for a ball passing through the sensor.

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    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    If that ends up being the case I'll simply extend 1 of the least hit of the 4 pocket sensors. There's no tamper issue on this machine, already checked that. Bingo easy as pie. Since I added a ball lifter, all my balls are ending up on top in an extended tray.

  12. #9
    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Here is a video of the sensor extended and working. Need to pick up some spring steel before I go golfing today to finish this mod. The thing is, those pockets rarely get hit anyway, might as well sacrifice one of them for the luxury of auto filling the shooter tray. It's not cheating if you aren't playing for money, it's simply ball management. Now the only time I need to mess around with balls is when the bottom tray fills up during a bonus, just like in an actual parlor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4U7xmtGEsw

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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Quote Originally Posted by rockston View Post
    Here is a video of the sensor extended and working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4U7xmtGEsw
    not to be a stick in the mud but why not get a Dave rob dongle?? one dongle will work with most if not all cr machines.. easily moved from one machine to another and no mods to a machine..

    just asking?
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  16. #11
    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    The vid shows a sea story. Possibly New Sea Story so a dongle should work fine, which should be a cr machine.
    Ian #UKPachinko

  17. #12
    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Well the way I see it, I traded one rarely, if ever, hit outlying pocket for a simple solution to a problem. I am satisfied with that inexpensive solution for this $15 machine. Buying the daverob dongle as a solution doesn't come without a price either.

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  19. #13
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    A card reader emulator dongle is not always possible, you can't use them on 'cash' versions of machines, so rockston's mod is useful to figure out and document. In cases like his where the dongle would cost three times as much as the machine, and inexpensive solution can provide just as much improvement to the playing experience.

    If you're OK with losing the pocket sensor, then you can replace it with a momentary switch with a series resistor. The value of the resistor and the type of switch (normally open / normally closed) depends on which sensor is used in this particular machine. If the sensor is an Omron TL-PP153 (which is fairly common on this age of machine), then you can simply short the two pins of the cable going to the sensor with a 47 ohm resistor to simulate a ball passing through.

    If it's a different model sensor, then start by unplugging the sensor with the power on, if it triggers a payout, then insert a normally closed switch inline with the connection to the sensor. If you don't get a payout when the sensor in unplugged, start with a resistor of around 200 ohms and short the pins of the connector with it to see if it triggers, keep reducing the resistor value by about 50 ohms until you get a payout. Don't go lower than 20 ohms though, or you may cause damage to the pachinko machine.

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  21. #14
    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Thank's for all the info Dave, Currently I am simply going to make a triggering device for the sensor for several reasons including, so I know where the "damn thing" is if I ever want to put it back in.
    BTW the sensors in this machine are 3 wire. I
    assume one lead is for supply voltage. So are you saying resistor and switch inline between the other 2? Thank's
    Last edited by rockston; 07-20-2021 at 08:59 AM.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    If you've got a three wire sensor, then I'd measure the voltages on it with a multimeter before making any modifications. You should have one ground wire (0v), a power wire with +5v or +12v on it, and the signal wire. I'd expect the signal wire to pull to ground when a ball is present, but this should be measured and confirmed. If it is pulled to ground, then a simple switch between ground and the signal wire should trigger a payout,

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  24. #16
    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making balls payout

    Here is a down and dirty, kind of silly but low risk mod. You won't have to worry about burning out a semi conductor and damaging anything since the prox sensor is still connected in the stock way. If you are still worried that you will no longer receive those 15 balls when you hit that sterile pocket and now have completely altered the game play just relax and hit the button whenever you think you landed it silly

    Now let's kick back and get a bonus ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OH0BbfDT8M

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