Troubleshooting LED issues, Cannon Light Yamato Pachinko

[p.opus]

Yea!!!

My Yamato CR1 finally arrived. Akimono did a wonderful job at packing it up and I only noticed one thing broken which is a pin on the back cover that I can glue or otherwise work around. Nothing Major that I can see thus far. I haven't run any balls through the machine as it is still at work with me. The case has some fairly pronounced yellowing which I may need to retrobright, but we'll see. However I did notice that the right most shock cannon light is noticeably dimmer than the other two. I'm not sure how to remove or check this light. Does anyone here have any experience with the machine? I know at least one person on the forum owns it.

Here is a pic.

IMAG0329.jpg

Any help anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated.

[heima]

My 2 cents, which won't even buy you half a gumball these days...
Does it look dimmer, or does it look like maybe the LED inside of the canon is offset or fallen out of its mount? I am guessing that all three light at the same time, always, so I am thinking that the latter is the case, the LED isn't really dim, but off its mount.

[p.opus]

That may very well be the case. If anyone has any idea of disassembling it I can check and remount it.

[p.opus]

I spent a good portion of last night trying to get to that bulb no joy. I found out that the OvalOne frame is dead easy for cell replacements. Two locking levers and a tug and the whole cell comes out. Unfortunately not a lot of cells were generated for this frame.

I was getting frustrated at my inability to get even "close" to this part swearing to myself "how do they expect you to change a bulb or anything on these stupid mahcines?" The immediate response in my head was ..."they don't"

I keep forgetting these machines were designed to last a year in a parlor and then get trashed. Since their shelf life is so short, they don't build any "user servicable" anything into these things. If a lamp goes out, oh well, you'll replace it in less than a year anyway.

It's only us pachi addicts who buy these things up who expect them to last awhile. And normally they do. And sometimes a fellow pachi talker hints you into cleaning a shooter knob or something that makes them last even longer.

But unfortunately sometimes theres a lamp or LED that just can't be easily accessed that you have to live with.

(Of course if anyone here has successfully gotten into the shock cannon mechanism, I'd sure love to know how you did it...)

[Drunkenclam]

Use a screwdriver



Ok only joking, I've taken quite a few cels apart, Most seem to come apart quite easierly, its just breaking down all the layers of wires and boards till you get to the right bit, But you have to work backwards, Start at the rear of the cel and work forwards, Take lots of pics as you go and label up any cables you disconnect that aren't colour coded.

[p.opus]

Use a screwdriver



Ok only joking, I've taken quite a few cels apart, Most seem to come apart quite easierly, its just breaking down all the layers of wires and boards till you get to the right bit, But you have to work backwards, Start at the rear of the cel and work forwards, Take lots of pics as you go and label up any cables you disconnect that aren't colour coded.

I started that last night and got down to the back of the LCD panel an started getting nervous. After all I paid nearly 400 for this thing shipped and I would just slap my self if I fubar'ed it all because of a stupid dim green LED bulb.

Once I own it and play it awhile, I may get brave, but right now, I think I'll enjoy the heck out of it, so I don't risk killing it before I have fully played it.

[p.opus]

Got a little closer last night. I took down the frame, stripped the frame of the circuits and the LCD panel and actually got to the point to where I could separate the top "super structure" assembly from the rest of the machine, and had to stop. The way everything is fit stuffed in there, I don't even know where to begin.

I did get a little more education on how the lights work. The back panel behind the super structure has tons of little red, blue, and green surface mounted LEDs that illuminate depending on the mood of the machine. These match the colors of the cannon barrels

I image that the cannons are the same, with a small board with the surface mounded LED's in the back of the cannon assembly with one set shining down each barrel. I image one or more of the 3 LED's behind one of the cannons is dead and the "glow" I get is coming from the neighboring barrel. Since I couldn't even get to the board, I couldn't know for sure.

I'm curious at finding out the problem, but I don't even know where to start disassembling that super structure assembly with the motorized cannon. I'm just scared that I'll go through all that disassembly and find out there's nothing I can do, or worse, I screw up something and end of breaking it even more (like making the cannon movement non functional).

[heima]

I applaud your courage. Give it some time. You might either dive in and go for broke, discovering the secret to the cannon illumination, and consequently become the expert on disassembling gimmicks and animatronics, or you might just live with it, because the dim cannon gives the pachinko character.

[p.opus]

I recently purchased a Yamato 1 pachinko that has an annoying (at least for me) issue with the LED's illuminating one of the cannons.

At first I thought that perhaps a single LED might have been dislodged during shipping and have attempted to get into the innards of the machine (no small task) to see if this is the case.

I have tried multiple attempts to get at the internals to the gun barrel, getting closer each time, but have yet to actually get to the LEDs in question.

I have learned more about how the LED's work and have monitored their behavior. It appears there are three LED's (Red Blue and Green) which illuminate based on a built in program in the Cell to give the proper color to the gun barrel tip depending on the "mood" required.

Now I have seen the GREEN LED cut in and out during game play, and it appears that the "blue" one is also a bit dicey or dim. Based on surrounding LED's it appears that these LED's are most likely surface mounted in very close proximity so they can be "combined" to create the desired illumination.

The questions are this.

1. Do these LED's ever go "bad?". The machine is only a 6 year old machine and would not expect any LED's to wear out on it, seeing I have a hanemono machine that is at least 30 years older than this one and it's LED's are fine.

2. Could it be due to some "dirt" or verdigris or other impurities on the board that could be affecting the voltage to the LED's causing them to be intermittent.

The reason I ask is this. To take the plunge and actually tear the machine down to the circuit board where this occurs is going to be very time consuming and as always, I can risk messing something else up. I've gotten closer, but have run out of time, or plain chickened out. If there is little chance for me actually improving the condition, I'm not sure I want to take the plunge. On the other hand, if it is a simple issue like some sort of clean up on some contacts or something to the board, It would be worth the risk.

I spent 400 dollars (when you add shipping) on this machine so It's not like a vintage that if I "eff" up, I can just laugh it off. This is some serious bread for me. The problem is that I have tried just "living with it" but the cannons are pointed straight in your face. It's not like these are located in some remote corner of the playfield that you can ignore.

Your help and comments are greatly appreciated.

[hanabi]

As there is already an 'open' tech support ticket regarding the cannon LEDS on your Yamato

are you wanting these threads merging?

[Drunkenclam]

Well any electrical component can go bad. But normally an led is either good or nothing. Also. Unlike a light bulb, an LED will only project light direct from the tip. If you look at an LED from the side it's not bright at all. They use lenses to distribute the light. So you need to look at it head on. Just make sure the lenses are clean. Try looking down the canon barrel from different directions. There are also bi and tri colour LEDs. So they can get multiply colours from one component.

[p.opus]

Hanabi, go ahead and Merge the issues.

Drunken Clam, thanks for the response. The challenge will be getting the unit torn down so I can actually investigate the issue. I've physically seen the green LED cut out and then cut back on when the other two have not. So it appears to be electrical in nature and not just a misaligned lens.

Once the unit is broken down, since all the PCB's need to be disconnected, it will be a huge challenge to power this board separately to try and troubleshoot it. I don't know if I will have the capability of jury rigging all the wiring so that the board can illuminate once everything is taken apart.

It seems like it's a pretty minor issue, but it is just one of those thorns in your side that logically you keep telling yourself, it's no big deal, but emotionally it hits you differently because something is "wrong" and you want to find out what it is and if you can "fix it"...

[daverob]

Haven't seen the original thread, so these points may have been dealt with already.

Can you get to the wiring to these suspect LEDs? If so then you can test them with a multimeter set to the diode test range, or a power supply with a suitable current limiting resistor (don't apply any voltages direct to the wires as you'll be likely to burn out the LEDs).

RGB LEDs are not usually intensity matched between colours (only the expensive ones are), The red and green LED segments are usually pretty close in terms of brightness, but the blue ones can be a fair bit dimmer. Where intensity matching is important it's usually done in software, and the red and green channels are dimmed to match the blue one.

LEDs are usually good or bad, it is extremely rare for the LED to be intermittent. If there's any unintended flickering, then it's more likely to be a wiring issue, especially in cases where there's movement involved.

[p.opus]

Thanks for that Daverob. The blue is definitely the dimmest of the three and it matches your description. I'll have to disassemble the assembly to get to the board.

I did notice that the default color of the cannon is "blue green" which is achieved by green and blue both being illuminated simultaneously. The color is noticabebly dimmer than the other two. When in "attract" mode, the cannon barrels flash when the "FUJI" title screen comes up. Occassionally the green LED does not illuminate after this flash, leaving the very dim blue one to be on. (The other two cannons don't have this issue). Then after several cycles, the LED's flash and the green one comes back on.

During this time, the cannon hasn't moved, so it's very curious. Could it be a software issue in the controller? I hadn't thought of that, but I guess it's entirely possible.

Thanks for your input.

[p.opus]

Well I found the problem, but I'm not happy about it. As I suspected the LED is damaged.

Here is a pic of the PCB that has the three multicolor LED's that control the cannon

Notice anything??? one of these things just aren't like the others.

I was hoping I was wrong and the "dark area" was just some surface grime, but no joy.

Now I have two options.

Put it back in and deal with a dim cannon knowing that eventually it will probably die out...Or unhook the wiring harness and just leave the cannons dark.

While the cannon lighting does add some excitement, there is plenty of other lighting on the machine, and I'm not sure if I prefer "un-uniform" illuminated cannons or "uniform" dark ones.

IMAG0352.jpgIMAG0353.jpg

[Skydanz]

Well, there's always the third option of replacing the LED. How's your soldering skills?

[heima]

But before you do that, why did the diode blow? I would think that the wiring for those LEDs is somewhat hidden amongst all of the other wires that comprise a pachinko machine. That there is no single, straggler wire that was floating around that got shorted or over voltaged.

My concern is that you replace the LED and as soon as you flip the power switch, the new one blows. I would do a comparative diode check with the good and the bad LEDs, and see if that gives anything suspicious.

If the gun (LEDs) light independently, I would attempt to trace back where they get their drive current from, and check out that circuit. You might find the true culprit there.

Another thing, if it is common for these pachinkos to have a bad 3rd cannon, perhaps there is a design flaw, so you might want to check the voltages that the bad LED is getting, in comparison to the other LEDs. Maybe the wrong current limiting resistor was installed?

Dunno, wish I could be more of a help.

[p.opus]

I think I figured it out, and fixed it...Kind of. At least I improved it enough for me.

Here is a new pic after the work.

IMAG0356.jpg

It seems the culprit was the blue element of the multicolor LED. It was always the dimmest element while playing. It seems to have finally blown, or I screwed it up in my rather crude repair attempt.

Soldering in a new one is not an option for two reasons. I have neither the equipment or skill for that delicate of a job, The LED is completely surface mounted and the surface mounts of the led's are slightly recessed below the rest of the board. I would need a VERY precise solder tip with the appropriate skill to solder in a new one...Assuming I could source one in the first place.

I was all set to put it back together without installing the wiring harness and live with universally dead LED's across all three barrels when I had a thought.

I took out my dremmel tool and put a really fine grinding stone on it and lightly started grinding the surface of the LED. Amazingly, the darkness seemed to lighten up. The led still had a different tint than the others, but now I could actually see contacts through the epoxy whereas before I could not.

I put the machine back together and figured at worst, I could quickly disassemble and cut all lighting to the guns if it was worse.

From a brightness standpoint it was definitely improved.. It seems the "blue" element of the LED had gone south, which led to the discoloration on the outer epoxy. Now the barrel is significantly brighter, at the cost of a completely dead blue element.

How does this affect appearance? Very slightly.

The default color of the gun is blue/green so the gun during normal operation is slightly more green than the rest. It's apparent more in the photo than it is while playing. From 3 feet away, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Even close up, I have to actually move my head to the side and look at the barrels from an angle to notice the missing blue. The red gun works fine. When you get a Desslar reach, however, the guns go purple (red and blue) so the third gun is noticeably more red during a Desslar reach. Also when you are in chance mode after a bonus the gun barrels turn blue which results in a completely dead third barrel.

The gun going dark during the chance round is slightly annoying but less so than the third barrel being eternally dim. There are some other brief moments during gameplay where the loss of the blue element is significant but they are very momentary.

I probably can live with this until another element of the LED dies. If that happens, I'll have to disconnect the lighting to the gun and think of an alternate method of highlighting the barrels. Painting the clear plastic tips a similar blue green is something I have though of. Maybe even painting them with luminescent paint so they would glow slightly in a darkened light is also a possibility

In the meantime, I think I can live with this. Thanks for all your help in this.

[p.opus]

One last thing. I think it may be a design issue in this particular machine StuTalon has the same machine, and some of his photos show a noticably dimmer third cannon as well, even when looking straight on. He posted some photos on Flickr and as you can tell by this photo (All sizes | Loading Screen | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) The third cannon seems dimmer, although it could also be a trick of the light.

Regardless, I know the failure mode now and while it's disappointing the situation has improved in most cases.

IMAG0332.jpg
Before:

IMAG0356.jpg
After:

[p.opus]

Well this never ending saga is over with a mostly happy ending.

During certain reaches and in the post jitan bonus spin mode, I was not satisfied with two blue cannons and a dead one. It was obvious that the blue element on the right hand cannon was gone, either by me or by electrical fault.

So I took the machine apart and carefully examined the LED board again...It was my fault...In "cleaning" the led with the Dremel tool (not recommended, by the way) Although I had removed the discoloration sufficiently for the LED to be sufficiently bright, I had ground too deep on the side of the LED where the Blue element was. That element was clearly destroyed. So I decided to take a risk and go for consistency. I traced the lines leading to the blue elements on the other two and broke the circuit to the blue element on the other two LED's.

This knocked out the blue on the other two barrels.

Now I have consistent tinting across all three barrels, and if you didn't know better, you would never guess that's not how the the cannons are supposed to look like. Sure, there is some tinting issues, for example during a Desslar reach, the cannons are supposed to be violet but are now red. When the cannons are supposed to be white, they're yellow and when they are supposed to be blue, they're off.

For me this is much easier to live with. At least the three cannons match each other in intensity and tint. The cannons all act the same and if you didn't know, any better, you'd think the machine was programmed that way.

It's not the ideal solution, but I don't have the eyesight, skills or equipment needed to replace a three element surface mounted LED that is less than a quarter inch square. But it is close enough since now the cannons have consistent lighting across all three barrels.

Machine reassembled, Cannons sufficiently bright, Mission Acomplished.