First Machine

[gerrimat]

Hi Everyone, Today I just purchased my first Pachislo from Milt at
Stealth. I very much wanted a Vegas Style machine that my mother and
father could play with out a large learning curve. So for my first machine I chose a NET 7 vs Dollars. Based on all of your discussions and
all of the excellent comments about Milt at Stealth I bought one of his machines on the Ebay Auction. I have been absorbing all of the info I could from this board and the PachisloCity Forums and have learned much in a short couple of weeks.

Now for my Question... What would you guys and gals give for a complete set of machine pcb schematics and wiring diagrams along with detailed parts bills of materials.

I am a Reverse Engineering Consultant and I work for a contract electronics manufacturer as both a Sr. Engineer and Programmer.

So I am curious if there was one pcb common to several machines that
would peak everyones interest.

Gary...

[Tulsa]

If you've spent time at pachislo city then you've learned to pay for information. At PachiTalk, we share openly and freely. While we might be interested in such a beast, the "what would we give for it" is a bit of a turn off...

We opened up this place to get away from paying for information.

[arbycoffee]

Hi Everyone, Today I just purchased my first Pachislo from Milt at
Stealth. I very much wanted a Vegas Style machine that my mother and
father could play with out a large learning curve. So for my first machine I chose a NET 7 vs Dollars. Based on all of your discussions and
all of the excellent comments about Milt at Stealth I bought one of his machines on the Ebay Auction. I have been absorbing all of the info I could from this board and the PachisloCity Forums and have learned much in a short couple of weeks.

Now for my Question... What would you guys and gals give for a complete set of machine pcb schematics and wiring diagrams along with detailed parts bills of materials.

I am a Reverse Engineering Consultant and I work for a contract electronics manufacturer as both a Sr. Engineer and Programmer.

So I am curious if there was one pcb common to several machines that
would peak everyones interest.

Gary...

we give you our infomation free, and you want to charge us for your ? Is this what you are saying ? :-?

sad

[Utopia1dc]

Free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

[TatooedLady]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I don't go to sites that I'm required to pay for anything....only people that get my money online are my ISP, and any bills I pay online...There's a HUGE amount of advice, experience, insight....all shared here in a forum that's friendly and accessible to anyone, simply by registering, not paying.

[delphicoder]

Gee wiz. Talk about taking the wind out of my sails. I have been working hard on my sound mods, venturing out of what I normally do (writing programs, testing security etc). Thinking I was actually doing something "big", at least to me it was, for a group that I visit several times a day.

After reading the original post, I don't even want to bother wasting my time anymore. Seems silly now :-( :-(

Oh well, my friends and family will still be impressed :wink:

[Lazarus]

Delphicoder. What some of us are trying to say is that if you are trying to think up modifications and then succeed on one and then want members to pay you for your time then you are not fallowing the spirit of this forum. On the other hand if you do succeed in making a mod. work and it is good enough to sell and you can sell to all the public and member alike go for it. Just remember if you benefited from the help of members and posts from this forum to sell a product don't forget where some of the help came from. Remember owe first aim in this forum is to help others without strings attached otherwise it is not true help for the sake of helping. If I misunderstand what you mean in your post then I apologize. I say we and this forum but I can only speak for myself in this post. This goes for anyone else that would want to get paid for the information or help they post here. Lazarus.

[luckydog]

we all work cheap :oops: :oops:

[delphicoder]

If I misunderstand what you mean in your post then I apologize.. Lazarus.

No, you misunderstood my post. I was not going to forgot those that have helped me and answered my questions. I was going to return the favor, and share information, not charge people.

From the original post, I was feeling it looks as if modding these machines or gathering technical information is taking on more of a selling feature, and the sound mods are probably easily done -- even though it is taking me some time to do it (new territory for me, I am more of a software person, not hardware).

There are members on this bbs that have answered my questions, and my plan was to help them mod their sound as I did my own machines.

[spooner]

Wait ... stop the presses! Delphicoder ... are you saying that you have been able to successfully change the sounds on your pachislo / pachinkos? If so, this opens a whole new world of machine customization. I am really, really, curious about how you have done this.

I am primarily a software engineer, but I have some experience with microprocessors as well, however, the whole sound mod thing has been a big question mark in the custom machine world. I cannot wait to hear what you have been able to accomplish in this aspect of our hobby! (no pun intended).

Thanks for playing! ~spooner

[gerrimat]

My appologies to all you cats for the wording on my first message.
I didn't mean to infer a money context.

You guys all help each other and I want to help to. BUT, here is
the catch... My offer is for 'FREE' schematics, but in order to
create such animals I NEED HELP as well. My problem that I am
asking for YOU CATS to help with is I don't have a machine to
dismantle to work with. I just bought the NET machine and I
will work on my own machine to develop ONE set of schematics.

BUT >>>> There are over 575 machines that I have counted so
far in the market and more than 10 vendors.

The help I need is getting 'non-functional' pcbs or even the loan
of a set of functional pcbs for a specific manufactures machine
for the reverse engineering function.

Without a source of pcbs for the creation of the data aka: No Help to
anyone.

Please Excuse the Capital leters I am not 'screaming at anyone' just
using them for emphasis.

So back to the offer... And my question: Is there a common pcb
that you guys know is in each machine that you 'ALL' would like to
have the information schematics for.

BTW: Since this is not an inconsiderable effort on anyones part
since you all talk about helping each other so much what kind of
help do you all really give each other in the long run?

Do you want to help? If yes I will be a very supportive member of this
forum. Else Tell Me and I will GO AWAY!

Just think how easy it would be to be able to fix a broken machine that
you find for $10 bucks at a flee market....

Gary...

[Lazarus]

I misunderstood you,sorry. I sort of get the reverse engineering thing but don't understand how this helps the ordinary person like me to fix something regarding the electronics of the brain of the machine.

[gerrimat]

Hi Lazarus, Well its like this with a full set of schematics you get detailed markings showing each of the parts as it is designed into the pcb with working voltages and all of the signals identified with proper english names show. In addition the bill of materials shows all of the parts and I identify the manufacturer for each part if its an IC or its generic replacement values. So lets say you have a machine with a non-functioning front panel stop button. Using the schematics and a multi-meter from Radio Shack or an Oscilloscope you can trace the connections from the button all the way back to the point on the pcb where the signal run into the microprocessor. In many cases if the button is good and the cables are not corroded or plugged in wrong
you will probabily trace the signal to an input gate chip or Peripheral input chip that is not working. This then become a fix involving buying
a new chip from Digikey and some soldering work to remove the old
chip and replace it.

In the case where your not a electronics wizard but you know someone
who works with model air planes, model railroads, radios, or assembles
their own computers and can read the schematics and trace the signals
you can have them do the debug and repair work for you in may cases for a couple of beers a pizza and or the chance to try out your machines.

The idea here is that the more information we are able to accumulate on the finer details of the individual pcbs the easier it will be for someone to figure out which chips you replace to change the music or to reprogram the basic machine operations.

Knowledge is power and power is play time.

I know that there are at least 3 variations on the relay board that
is used for the AutoStop chip functions. I can easily after reversing the
circuits construct say a plug in module that would allow you to read out
the totals or control a light tower or the type of indicators boxes used in the Japanese Parlors for the master consoles. A simple microprocessor
pcb could be constructed to process all of the information and even
link more than one machine to another in a home network configuration.

I do this work for a living and can see lots of possiblities with these machines.

Also any pcb that someone would loan me for this effort will be returned
cleaned, tested and repaired.

So if you have a non-working machine or a old pcb that needed replaced
because it failed this is the kind of 'help' I am looking for to start this
effort. And you get a full set of schematics and boms returned with
your repaired pcb. For the more complex main controller pcbs a description of what's not working helps in the repair of the board.

Please understand that if parts are needed for the repair if its a cheap part in my parts box I'll fix it at no cost. But for a more expensive part like a $10 dollar chip the owner of the board covers the 'actual cost of
the part only'. Since shipping costs for a board are in both directions
its a wash for both parties.

This offer is only for the first 2 to 5 pcbs that I work on as far as the
repair offer goes.

BUT, There is a catch... When repairing only one pcb out of a whole
machine set only more than one pcb can be affected and repairing
just one may not fix the whole problem. If its easy to identify one
pcb for a repair this is a good way to start this process.

Does this answer you question?

[Tulsa]

This is sounding very interesting. If I had a non-functioning machine at the moment I would send the pcb to you. Maybe someone else does have an issue and you guys could help each other out.

[gerrimat]

Hi Tulsa,

The whole idea is to maybe start a new board segment that would
contain pdf files and jpegs of each circuit board that everyone could
download for their own reference or use.

As I stated before I will use my new NET machine for my own documentation and will post this data to the forum when its completed.

But in the interum since there are so many machines out there right now surely someone has a broken machine they need some help fixing.

Think to how benificial this information would be for the guys like
Milt at Stealth or the others who bring in machines and get some
duds in a shipment.

In addition by identifiying a specific board in a jpeg with a schematic and the part numbers off the board you could swap in boards from the same manufacturer much more easily if there was more data available here on the forum.

I would like to start this effort out small with say one or two boards
and build the data library of schematics over time.

[logicprobe]

gerrimat...
Welcome to the forum.

Like a Sam's Photofact... right?

Sounds like a cool project. I'd help in any way I could... but hate to part with my toys. :lol:
They all work right now, but you never know when you'd need something like this. I think it's a great idea. I know how time consuming that would be though... I've reversed a few things in my time as an ET and teacher, by desire as well as my need.

As a techie... I'd be drooling over prints like these for DAYS!!!
It would cost me a fortune in paper towels alone, just to clean up the drool. :grin:

There seems to be a few people here that have a great background in electronics, coding, graphic arts, etc. Some come here and freely offer their services and knowledge. Others come here and lurk... and although it's sad to think this way... they just might grab the info and run, possibly for their own profit, too. That might be the reasoning more people don't "help" openly. It's a fear of "leeches". :wink:

And also understand that some of us "old timers" have been around discussions like these for a while. We've seen some great plans come and go. It turns some into skeptics... myself included, I'll admit. And we've also seen some that claim to have solved great mysteries of the machines... but to the "trained eye" its easy to pick out the BS... and sometimes not.

But you and a few others seem to be able to walk the walk, IMHO. It makes for some GREAT possibilities!!!

So don't take anything skeptical as a personal attack. Understand our cautiousness. We've been beat up before. :smt062

How about this? Do you happen to have a link to another RE job that you've done? Doesn't even have to be pachi related. It might help some understand exactly what you're offering here.

Anyway... check your PMs... maybe I can help out a little. I know it's something I'd like to get involved with.

[arbycoffee]

I am sorry if I miss read your post. Welcome

[Lddrizzt]

gerrimat
First, welcome to our little slice of imported heaven!

Second, what Logicprobe said. :smt025

Third, where are ya located? you will notice that 99.9% of us have machines that are in working order thanks to our vendors that take good care of us. If you are located near one of our importers, that would be the perfect place to get machines that are not in working order. I know for myself I have 4 machines at home and anywhere from 2-8 at our local shop at any time, and we have had no problems with any of them. I know when I was up at Stealth last Oct. Milt had a small bone pile in one of the side rooms that would have definately benefitted from your offer, and I am sure when I stop up there this wed afternoon I will still see the pile settin there. So if you are near any of these guys that would be your best bet for access to the boards you are lookin for.

Just the voices in me head takin over again.

[gerrimat]

Lddrizzt, thanks for the welcome. I live in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

And thank you for the idea about contacting the vendors. A guy like
Milt at Stealth might want to help with an idea like this but I would
think that most of the Vendors would prefer to keep this type of
information as proprietary or would want to sell it just as you cats
originally considered that I was proposing.

I would prefer to keep it open to everyone but would like it to become
a group think thing that everyone would eventually contribute to.

So after reading this string of posts I have decided to work on my
own machine and to then contribute the results to the forum for
everyone to review and share in. This way I can establish my
credibilty to everyone and you all get to see the quality and quantity
of my work. This way I start this ball rolling and everyone gets
to gain some more knowledge about how these machines work.

As for LogicProbes request for a pointer to a site where you can
find my work... Well it doesn't quite work like that.

Every company in the use has a reverse engineer talent on staff.
The all try to learn the secrets of their competitors designs and
will buy new models or try to get their hands on a unit dismantle
it and try to 'reverse engineer the unit'.

I don't condone this type of work but have in the past been involved
in this activity.

The work that I do now involves contract engineering where a
company brings a product or pcb to my company with incomplete
or obsolete parts or data on the construction of the device.

My job is to re-create the schematic design for the device non-
destructively and/ or to figure out ways to replace parts in the
design that have gone obsolete over time.

In addition I am a very serious embedded software developer with
over 30 years of experience in assembly language programming.
I have developed portable instrumentation for several different
companies in where I live and I also have been a engineering
consultant for over 10 years.

So I will start this effort myself and will submit the results when
completed. First though I have to take delivery of my machine
which I just won on Ebay from Milt at Stealth.

Thanks for the followup and I think I'll end the string on the original
message here...

[Lddrizzt]

Dang gerrimat! yer a neighbor! I just live north of ya in Grove City!
I think our closest importers would be Stealth in Rochester,NY and maybe Daca in Cincinnati, Oh.
I've been dealin with Milt at Stealth since I first started in this hobby, I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with Daca as of yet but Davis I believe has dealt alot with them and speaks highly of them, so these are the 2 I would most likely try to contact if you want to get some boards n stuff.