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Thread: Did I ruin my machine?

  1. #21
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by alstonj1 View Post
    Im going against the crowd on this one the device pictured in the middle of the board labeled js1fj-24 is a power relay and i can tell you this much you blew it to hell with the 100 volt input
    The relay will be fine, the coil is connected to the green terminals, not the main power input, so there's no chance of it melting down due to an overvoltage situation.

    The label on the machine also confirms this as is in the table the green ('緑') terminals are shown as 'DC24V入力' (DC24V Input), whereas the blue ('青') bonus round terminals are labelled 'DC24V出力' (DC24V Output). I can't immediately recognise the rest of the Kanji on the label, so I'm not sure what this input is for, but the connection to CN4 is labelled as a lamp ('ランプ').

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  3. #22
    veneratio million deus Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Im not at home now but tonight I will try all of your guys suggestions and will take a vid while doing so.

    Heres one other point.
    Up untill I installed the transformer in its correct wiring the 5 Amp fuse remained intact.

    How can that have been if I sent first 100v to the machine then, according to some of you ,at least 500v volts without the Fuse blowing?

    How can the transformer still be working after the incorrect wiring surge that I sent through it?

    One last thing ,If that relay did get fried on the power board wouldnt it have gotten hot or smoked or left some sort of smell? Just asking.
    Led Zepplin

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  5. #23
    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    The relay is just for the battle counter connections, it shouldn't receive voltage till a bonus or a ball goes in a start pocket.

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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  7. #24
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Up untill I installed the transformer in its correct wiring the 5 Amp fuse remained intact. How can that have been ...
    I'd suspect it's as simple as the transformer fuse blowing first. If the transformer fuse is a smaller value, then this is the most likely reason.

    How can the transformer still be working after the incorrect wiring surge that I sent through it?
    A transformer is just a bunch of copper wire and iron, the only way you're going to damage it is to melt it or put enough voltage/heat into it for the insulation to get damaged. Luckily under fault conditions fuses tend to blow a lot quicker than transformers take to melt (assuming that the fuse is the correct value and type!), so it's not that unusual to get away with something like this.

    Don't worry about the relay, even if it was connected to the voltage, the diode clamp device connected to CN2 would have suppressed the voltage and taken the fuse out a lot quicker than it would take to damage the relay coil.

    BTW compirate, usually you'd be right about the battle counter connections, but I'd suspect that this machine pre-dates battle counters. Besides the green terminals and relay are definitely wired for an input signal.

    The best I can make out the Japanese text for the signal coming from the relay is '倥 止ランプ' which I think translates to something like 'urgent stop lamp' but I'm really not sure about the first character/word (a clearer picture would be nice, please Eddie ).

    The other two terminals are things I'm familiar with, so can read quite easily...

    B (Blue) 'Big Bonus Signal' 24vDC Output
    A (Red) 'Out of Balls Signal' Contact Output

    Definitely no mention of a Start Pocket output, which would be necessary for a battle counter to work.

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  9. #25
    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    I understand what your saying, I suppose I should have said 'parlor connections'*, although I'm not sure how the green connections can be an input (but the Japanese characters don't lie!). It looks like it 'grounds' (not an electronics expert, as some may realize! ) one connection if the relay isn't energized, and the other on being energized.

    *I've got an old 'battle counter' that just has lights and a double digit counter for bonuses. In the older parlors, they just had lights.
    Last edited by compirate; 12-12-2007 at 01:54 PM.

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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  11. #26
    Kungishi fronzdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    I agree with logic and daverob on this. CN2 component must be shorted and is probably the only thing damaged here. Frying a transformer winding takes significantly longer, relative to how long it takes to trip a protection device. You can usually smell a fried transformer too.

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  13. #27
    Dr. Frankenpachi alstonj1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    the transformer isn't going to be damaged a step down transformer acts as a step up transformer when wired backward and really doesn't care much for the voltage applied to its windings unless you exceed its amp load and as was stated the internal safety should open before melting down . as for the relay the coil in it will light up like a light bulb unlike the transformer it has a very thin gage wire and will burn up and you will smell it , i can't read Japanese so the labels don't help much and i bow to those who can interpret them .unplug cn2 and you'll have your answer the fuse should stay at that point .
    Jeff

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  15. #28
    Kungishi fronzdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Yep, relay coils do a nice smelly meltdown. But for real fun, reverse the polarity of a nice 24v tantalum capacitor.

  16. #29
    veneratio million deus Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    OK guys Im about to remove the CN2 device and see what happens I will take a vid while doing so. If indeed the Fuse stays intact what then? Can that component be replaced or even repaired can it be bypassed Hmm should it be bypassed?
    Led Zepplin

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  18. #30
    veneratio million deus Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Ok the deed is done here are some pics of the board with the CN2 Device which appears to be just a jumper with a Diode or resistor on the end.

    There are markings (Numbers on it) that I could not see while making the vid.

    The numbers are 3 AU 21056

    There is another pic of the schmatics. Its very hard to get a good pic of it believe it or not as my camera just doesnt want to focus with the available light and with the flash the whole thing is washed out.

    I wont tell you the results of the test I will post them with the vid that is being uploaded now.

    Bet the suspense is killing you!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Eddie; 12-12-2007 at 08:56 PM.
    Led Zepplin

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  20. #31
    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    I wont tell you the results of the test I will post them with the vid that is being uploaded now.

    Bet the suspense is killing you!
    3 choices:

    1. A video of NYC going dark.
    2. A video of a nice pachinko machine working properly.
    3. A video of a sad man crying.

    I'll go with #2!

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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  22. #32
    veneratio million deus Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Here is the moment you have been waiting for! Hold on to your seats its a doozy!





    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H5vF2r2ndM
    Led Zepplin

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  24. #33
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    I still worry about your "writting" ability!

    seriously: trace the output of the cn2 device I would bet it runs to ground. when it is 'over-voltaged' i believe it is designed to short to ground and take out the 5v fuse before damage can be done to any more critical components. if it is in fact a designed short to ground you should be able to plug the board back in and the missing component should not affect the power up of the machine.
    remember it would appear that both 24v and 100v use the same plug in Japan therefore they would need this devise in case some nincompoop ,such as one of us, plugged it into the 100v outlet.
    Last edited by birdbrain; 12-12-2007 at 10:11 PM.


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  26. #34
    The Barbarian johntofva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Great video...
    Life
    It's what happens
    When you least expect it.

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  28. #35
    Fever Hunter Ichi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Haha, I don't know what any of that stuff is... But the video is highly entertaining. Sorry I don't have answers for you

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  30. #36
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Can that component be replaced or even repaired can it be bypassed Hmm should it be bypassed?
    Now that you've tested that the fuse doesn't blow with the CN2 component removed, you should be safe to put the board back in the machine, and see if the rest of the machine works.

    The component in question is a transient voltage suppression diode. It works in a similar way to a zener diode, but works for AC voltage (a zener diode is for DC only)

    If the voltage is below a set limit then it does nothing, but when the voltage goes too high it starts conducting and 'clamps' the voltage to a safe level. This 'clamping' action is designed to absorb small transient voltages, and can cause the fuse to blow for moderately higher voltages. If the voltage is too high for it to absorb, then it will fail and go permanently short circuit and the fuse will blow, which is what happened here.

    It's not necessary to have this component in the circuit, but it helps protect the electronics in the same way as plugging it into a surge-protector strip would. If you're using a surge-protector strip, then there's really no need for this component to be replaced at all.

    Anyway I've stayed up late enough to watch the video, hopefully there'll be some footage of the whole machine working when I wake up tomorrow .

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  32. #37
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    SEE !! The big guy agrees!






    WOW !! is this what it feels like to be single?? to speak and actually be right too?


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  34. #38
    Mr. Pachitalk arbycoffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Birdbrain you shave to close ?
    "This is My Personal Opinion and no others"

  35. #39
    wearing a suit birdbrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    I've been married too long, but i faintly remember speaking and not being told i am wrong.


  36. #40
    Kungishi fronzdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did I ruin my machine?

    Dude, that was an entertaining video. I stopped watching one of my favorite TV shows to view it. Kind of sad on my part.

    Congrats on the debug and fix!! Can't wait to see vids of the machine, it's a beauty.

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