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Thread: The parties over for me!!!

  1. #41
    Fever Hunter Angry_Radish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    An interesting story

    Gambling With The Law April 27, 2006
    It may be the worst-kept secret in Wisconsin.
    Video gambling machines are thriving in bars and restaurants across the state. Players are losing millions of dollars on casino-style slot and poker machines. They're losing big money into machines that aren't even supposed to be there.
    You see, video gambling in taverns is against state law.
    The FOX 6 Investigators went undercover to show how this black market industry works, and why the state is looking the other way.
    At bars, restaurants, bowling alleys and legion halls, we found miniature casinos pulling in big bucks. The signs on the machines say they're for "amusement only." But, our hidden cameras captured bartenders making cash payouts on-the-spot. Others told us we could collect our winnings at a later time.
    At Sunset Bowl in Waukesha, we watch a player hit the jackpot on a 10-cent machine.
    Player: "I hit the 8's. It was at 2000. So, that's $100."
    She tells the bartender, who prints out a ticket. The player signs the ticket, sticks it in an envelope with her name on the outside, and the bartender stuffs the envelope under the cash register drawer. The next time she comes back, she'll get the cash. And the bartender assures us, we could do the same.
    Bartender: "If were to you win today, you'd get paid tomorrow."
    It used to be a felony to operate a video gambling machine in a licensed liquor establishment in Wisconsin. But, changes in state law over the past 7 years have dramatically reduced the penalties and virtually wiped out enforcement.
    The result? Illegal video gambling is flourshing - unregulated, and in some cases, untaxed.
    Here's how the games work. Players put cash into a slot or video poker machine, and the machine issues credits - usually 5-cents per point.
    When the player is ready to "cash out," a bar employee records the number of credits, then resets the machine.
    Player/Classic Lanes: "Oh my goodness!"
    At Classic Lanes in Oak Creek, it's immediate gratification. No coming back for payouts.
    Player/Matty's: "I got queens."
    At Matty's in New Berlin, a worker checks the screen, records a player's winnings, and returns with cash.
    FOX 6: "I heard one of you just won $250, huh?"
    Player/American Legion Post: "Yeah."
    FOX 6: "Nice."

    At the American Legion Post in Brookfield, a sign on the machine says payouts will be made on the "Next business day ONLY, no exception."
    At Bushy's in Muskego.
    FOX 6: "What do you guys give for credits here?"
    Bartender/Matty's: "They're all nickel machines, except the far left one's a quarter machine. But, you have to come back on Monday."

    At Amelia's near Mitchell Airport.
    Bartender/Amelia's: "You get paid immediately."
    Only if you win, of course. And more often than not, players lose. Sometimes they lose big.
    Joe/Gambler: "There's times where I've lost six- seven-hundred dollars in a machine, a nickel machine."
    Joe knows gambling.
    Joe/Gambler: "I see people in bars that spend money that they don't have."
    Tessa Wahlen is accused of stealing $16,000 from a Culvers restaurant in Waukesha, where she was assistant manager. She told police most of the money went into the slots at Sunset Bowl.
    Rep. Sheldon Wasserman/D-Shorewood:
    "The law is very clear. This is illegal. They should not be doing it."

    But, State Representative Sheldon Wassmerman says the law and the practice are two different things.
    Wasserman: "It's kind of like, a wink and a nod, in the other direction."
    To understand how it got this way, you have to go back to 1997 in the small town of Tomah, Wisconsin, when police raided the Tee Pee supper club, confiscated 4 video gambling machines, and arrested the club's owner, Ed Thompson.
    Ed Thompson/Tee Pee Supper Club:
    "Took the machines, took the money out of the machines, took the money out of the safe. Just about broke me."

    Ed was facing prison time. But, he refused to cut a deal with the district attorney.
    Thompson: "I went to court and they couldn't find a jury. 48 people walked off and said, I agree with Ed."
    Then Ed's brother Tommy got involved. Tommy Thompson.
    And in 1999, Governor Thompson signed legislation that "decriminalized" video gambling in taverns, as long as 5 or fewer machines are involved.
    They're still illegal, just not criminal.
    Meredith Helgerson/Department of Revenue:
    "There is no circumstance under which they are legal."

    The state says the machines are considered contraband, subject to seizure and a $500 fine per machine. But, local police can't do anything about them.
    In 2003, Governor Doyle signed a law that gives the Wisconsin Department of Revenue sole authority to enforce limited video gambling in bars.
    The FOX 6 Investigators have obtained an internal department memo that suggests the state is turning a blind eye.
    The 2004 memo addresses a question from Representative Steve Foti, who asked if the department is "looking to shut down machines" or to ensure "that tax is paid on the proceeds."
    The author of the memo wrote, "I assured him, it was the latter."
    Meredith Helgerson/Department of Revenue:
    "Even though the income from these machines is illegal, it is still taxable."

    The state even tells taverns how to account for their gambling income. A tax bulletin issued in 2004 reminds bar owners the machines are against Wisconsin law. But, on the very same page, it explains they are entitled to tax deductions for pay outs. Illegal pay outs.
    Bryan Polcyn/FOX 6 Investigators:
    "Isn't that a contradiction?"
    Meredith Helgerson/Department of Revenue:
    "Um, I wouldn't say it's a contradiction. There are many illegal activities that the income is taxable."

    Rep. Wasserman: "You have the department of revenue winking and nodding. I don't think anyone really wants to touch it."
    We caught up with the owner of the Brookfield tavern, "For Pete's Sake," in his parking lot. He didn't want to talk on camera at first. But, he stopped to say that small business owners ought to get a slice of the state's massive gambling pie.
    Mark Bowar/For Pete's Sake: "You can't take it away from here, when you have everything else that you have. The pulltabs, the Wisconsin Lottery, they're advertising on TV for godsakes."
    In practically the same breath, Bowar insists his bar does not pay out.
    Mark Bowar/For Pete's Sake: "Honestly, it really is for amusement only."
    Our hidden cameras caught his own worker telling us something else.
    FOX 6 Reporter: "How do you get your payout then?"
    FOX 6 Producer: "We tell you our credits?"
    Bartender/For Pete's Sake: "Yeah, you tell me and you gotta take it up with the owner tomorrow."

    Bowar: "That was simply untrue."
    Bryan Polcyn/FOX 6 Investigators:"If you weren't playing for money, how much fun would that be?"
    Joe: "It wouldn't be fun at all."

    Bowar: "You know, maybe it's because they just like to watch the thing spin around, I don't know."
    The truth is, video gamblers want to win money. But, chances are far better they'll lose. That's especially true on these illicet machines, because state law does not control the odds.
    At tribal casinos, state regulators watch to make sure they pay out at least 80% of the money they take in. But, tavern gambling machines are typically set at pay out rates of 50% to 65%. The state has found some as low as 20%.
    Ed Thompson says the solution is to legalize the games once-and-for-all.
    Thompson: "Either take it all away from everybody, state included, churches included, which you know they can't do, or open it up."
    Wassmerman: "Are we gonna have it or not? And let's be honest and up front about it. Or, just do away with the whole system."
    That's easier said than done.
    That state's gaming compacts guarantee that Native American tribes have the exclusive rights to video gambling. Legalize the machines in taverns, and the tribes vow to stop making tens-of-millions of dollars in payments to the state.
    Thompson: "Isn't that blackmail? Don't allow anybody to do it or we won't pay ya?"
    The Tavern League of Wisconsin figures legalization would generate up to $380-million in annual tate revenue. Thompson says that's far more than the tribes are paying now.
    Thompson: "If they didn't pay us a dime. And they would open it up, the money would be so much greater."
    Bowar: "I think now it's time that somebody sits down and makes a decision on this."
    Wassmerman: "I will bring it up in the next legislative session."
    Until then, many bars will just keep gambling with the law.


  2. #42
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    I think just about all the states have lottery already.
    In Bradenton, they give out gift cards, not debit cards, you must buy merchendise with them.
    they also have other gifts you can select or take credit on future playing.
    They never give you cash!!!!
    I'll just have to wait and see what happens.
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

  3. #43
    veneratio million deus Eddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    The owners shhould take all of the permits and legal documents and start a class action suit against the city as well as take out ads in all of the local newspapers stating what the criminal crooked cops have done. Remember what was going on in Louisiana about 10 years ago? with out of towners getting their cars impounded for phoney traffic violations where as those found guilty had their vehicles and contents confiscated and distributed among the Judges, Police and Prosecutors as well as the Defendants LAWYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Took President Clinton to crack down on the local yokel corrupt police depts that were all in on it.
    Led Zepplin

  4. #44
    Site Admin Tulsa's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Louisiana still scares me to drive though...
    Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.

  5. #45
    The Barbarian johntofva's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    I very much remember what happened there. And personally will never spend one dime in that state. I remember one of the stories in which a man had taken his life savings to purchase a business. The police confiscated (stole) his money and never returned it. He was never charged with a crime.
    Life
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    When you least expect it.

  6. #46
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Smile Re: The parties over for me!!!

    todays letters to the editor of Bradenton Herald on local slots

    http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14802321.htm
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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  8. #47
    Dr. Frankenpachi alstonj1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    ya gotta love this one .....

    I think the whole thing is political and Manatee County isn't getting its cut. Lighten up and let's get the honest game rooms open again. Or would you rather I hang out in the bars and drive on your Manatee County roads?

    Marion Bartholf
    Bradenton
    Jeff

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  10. #48
    Pachi Puro Tony Junior's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    I have wondered about this from the beginning of this nonsense.

    Why were the gaming rooms provided permits to run their business then shut down in such a manner? The manner of this sting was very upsetting to the players, not just to the employees working at the time.

    Russ and Becky Rowsey
    Bradenton
    Check my member page here or...

    Temporarily, go to youtube.com and search for BudgeRahe for videos. Until I get the links set up in the museum

  11. #49
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: The parties over for me!!!

    More letters to the Editor, one place was sold and was issued a permit to run a slot place a week before the raids.

    http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradent...n/14827455.htm

    The best one was why didn't the police go to the places and warn them that they were operating illegally instead of raiding them.

    By the way, some places had Policemen working in uniform when off duty for security sometimes.
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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  13. #50
    Blind Shooter buccsboi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    > I agree lucky. It is a shame...... But I wonder how many retired people
    > spent money they didn't have.

    We in the gambling industry prefer the term "Disposable Income"... Cya on the 1st!

    B

  14. #51
    Pachi Puro scooby_doo_m2002's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    When my Grandfather still had his own Amusement bussiness he had poker machines and cherry master machines places in bars and VFW. He also had arcade, pinball, and pool tables. During the 13yrs. he did the poker and cherry masters, he only lost a total of 10 machines. He said when the Indiana excise police would do a raid on a bar it was due to them recieving complaints from patrons about them. He said the way he had it set up was bartender would payoff the winners and winner would sign a paper of the amount won. then when grandpa did his "route" he would payoff the bar. all of them ranged from 85-95 percent pay out. he said he had them set up to where there were more small payouts vs. large ones. so in assense, it wasn't very often he had to pay out more than 300cash/week in actual winnings. but yet pull 3-5000 from the machines. and when the machines started paying out large numbers, he would pull them and put fresh ones in. I remember hanging out at the shop as a kid playing those things and winning left and right. Heck, I didn't know at the time what they were. I just thought they were arcade games. When I would start losing alot grandpa would take the machine and put it in his truck and give me "a better one" to play with. Didn't know that while I was having fun playing the machines, I was actually saving him money...

    I never really knew just how "street" smart my grandfather really was until he was at home in bed waiting for the good lord to take him home after 6months of lung cancer. after he passed away. the man I saw was your normal blue collar bussiness owner. but from stories I have heard from family and his former employees it just blows my mind.....
    Last edited by scooby_doo_m2002; 06-17-2006 at 02:57 AM.

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  16. #52
    Sandwich Shooter ocpachinko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    All that Manatee county had to do was put a page up on their website that showed legal and illegal machines. When you got a business permit you could be directed to the site or given a printed copy.

    This is not complicated to do when they already have a website. It's not like they have to publish a book. They already pay their IT folks well, I'm sure.

    When I started a small (nothing to do with any of this stuff) business 17 years ago I filled out my first corporate tax return. I'll never forget that the way you listed deductions was on an attached sheet. There was little information in the (printed) federal tax publications on exactly what was and wasn't allowed--there were some guidelines, but basically you listed it out and hoped you didn't get audited.

    This was amazing to me...all I wanted to do was to obey the law and the information wasn't available to me to be precise about it (wasn't making any money then, so the only problem would be if I did something incorrectly!)

    I would VERY MUCH like to know what these business owners were or weren't told about operating machines like these. The references to the 'permits' are intriguing...what kind of permits were they and what did they allow?

    I don't think that many people are going to invest in equipment they know is illegal in a wide open location near many other similar businesses, and if they do that, then bring on the cops.

    Have an illegal machine? Friendly Sheriff can issue a written warning, they can sell the thing on eBay, and if they don't put another one out that's the end of it.

    At least that's the way it would be if it wasn't 'righteous government' vs. 'evil businessmen' in the minds of certain people--and sorry, I don't think that most of those people have anything to do with any church.
    [D] means [developement] [doramatic] [demention] and [design]

  17. #53
    Tokie Owens plasticmouse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Sigh, it's stuff like this that makes me happy I live in the UK! Hell, I'm even allowed to have full on fruit machines in my house here. Poor luckydog

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    Fever Hunter David Wile's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Hey Lucky,

    I just read the letters to the newspaper, and now I am more upset than before. You mean to tell me the cops used hoods over their heads when raiding the places? Maybe the hoods were there to hide their shame for what they were doing. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I absolutely hate governments at all levels. I thought I was a Libertarian, but I think I am starting to slide toward the anarchists.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile

  19. #55
    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Our SWAT teams wear black ski masks and clothes when they are working,

    even in the daylight, one day at a store I was managing a van was parked out front for about 1/2 hour, all of a sudden 3 cars came tearing in and blocked the van and about 10 guys in black with ski masks and guns jumped out and surrounded the van.

    My customers ran to the back of the store, and dummy me stood there to see what was going on. it turns out they had a tip that a drug dealer they wanted was in the van. but, it was empty.

    A lot of them work undercover and the sherriff doesn't want to show their faces.

    It is a little scary
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

  20. #56
    Fever Hunter David Wile's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Hey Lucky,

    Kinda reminds me of those terroists folks - I guess they are undercover too. I find it interesting that Wyatt Earp and Texas John Slaughter never had the need to wear any kind of mask when working the law. Then again, these guys today are no Earps or Slaughters. Instead of protecting folks against real bad guys, they are "protecting" the citizenry from themselves - since we are obviously not capable of making our own decisions. After all, evils such as slots, prostitution, drugs, and the like are things we just cannot manage for ourselves without the control of our government.

    Heil Big Brother!

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile

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  22. #57
    Site Admin Tulsa's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Before I embarked on my life of working in the security field, I was a cameraman at the local CBS affiliate in Oklahoma City. One day a reporter doing a story on th swat team convienced them to take of the station as a joke.

    They stormed the station with their riot gear and weapons and had everyone convienced they were actually taking over the station. I'd say about every third desk had someone underneath it with a puddle underneath them.

    The reporter a week later no longer worked for the station.
    Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.

  23. #58
    Sandwich Shooter ocpachinko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    (Thread hijack)
    Dave, I see you're from Mechanicsburg...could you get someone over there to figure out how to run Williams Grove Amusement Park occasionally (say, during weekends...maybe closing in time for the races)? I never got to ride that coaster and I'm worried it's a goner.
    (Hijack over)

    I just love old wooden coasters...sorry...we return you to the board-appropriate controversy...
    [D] means [developement] [doramatic] [demention] and [design]

  24. #59
    Captain Weirdo Sid's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulsa
    One day a reporter doing a story on th swat team convienced them to take of the station as a joke.


    The reporter a week later no longer worked for the station.
    Wow!!!

    what an Idiot!!!

    "I've stopped fighting my inner demons, we are on the same side now."

  25. #60
    Fever Hunter David Wile's Avatar
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    Default Re: The parties over for me!!!

    Hey folks,

    When the guys in masks make a mistake, invade an innocent person's house who is also armed, and people are killed, my sympathy will be with the innocent person being invaded by people with guns and masks. As far as I am concerned, if you are wearing a mask, your intentions are immediately suspect, and I would be inclined toward self preservation.

    At least the English wore red coats.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile

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