strategy and skill stopping

[JesseLee]

i wanted to start a thread here about skill stopping and strategy. i would like to show videos and show how to get a big bonus or a regular bonus on the first try during a bonus chance and also wanted to explain a little about basic strategy.

[Calypso]

Hey JesseLee. Neat idea, however, I don't know that there is actually any "skill" to it. (Yes, I realize that the American name is "Skill-stop slot" ).

My experience & understanding is that it's all computerized and your chances of winning are based on odds set inside (payout rate) and not some uncanny ability to eyeball a drop target.

If the "bonus rounds" have taught us anything...it is that you can hit what the machine wants you to regardless of what order or when you hit those buttons...or timing.

Neat thread idea, but am I wrong here? Is there actually any real skill?

It would be cool if I was wrong. But my experience is that Pachinkos have a much higher "skill" requirement than slots. And even then you may find a "sweet spot" for the knob for certain machines but it still boils down to probability and chance even in those cases.

Hope I don't sound like a total & would love to be proven wrong.

[JesseLee]

Pachislo having no skill to them is actually a big misconception that i recently just realized from the reactions i have been getting from multiple players. If you would give me some time and understanding i can explain what can be done and what can not.

[JesseLee]

In fact. I was cringing at the teeth watching your videos on biohazard 6. You were on a big bonus chance but were stopping the reels without trying. What if i told you that you could have hit 777 on the first spin as soon as you entered that mode? It is true and you should try it! I am out of town until friday. But when i get back home i will try to find a video or shoot a video showing how to recieve your big bonus without wasting your time.

[daverob]

I'm interested in how this thread will go. I'm of the opinion that the machine decides when a win is due and if you press the stop buttons somewhere around the right time, you're going to hit a big bonus. If a win isn't due, you could be 100% accurate with your timing and still it'll miss out. It's definitely the case with pachinkos, as there is a hardware random number generator that is used to determine what you're going to get. Haven't been inside a pachislo, so I'm not familiar with the electronics used in them.

It does lead in nicely to an experiment that I'd love to have a try at. I'm sure you could attach a single board computer (raspberry pi or beaglebone, maybe even an arduino), to the reel drive signals and optos, so the computer knows exactly where each reel is, and then use outputs to trigger the stop buttons, with the right software you could make it capable of 'eye shooting' a 777 on every spin. Then you can see exactly how 'honest' the machines are.

[Calypso]

I’m still in the same boat as you Dave, and skeptical at best that you can “skill” hit unless the machine is ready to pay out. I think the machines are REALLY good at making you think there is skill to it...but that’s the glory of illusion. Just like bonus rounds that make you hit A “chance” button (in hopes of increasing odds)in Pachinko. Watch my series of “never ending Batman jackpot“. I realize that is is not pachislo, but I’m that video I actually stop even hitting the chance button when prompted (in hopes of ending the payout to go to bed) and it still hit!

Not saying “you’re wrong” Jessie, but just skeptical based on my experience. Show us your stuff! Let’s see as I would love to have won sooner!! .

I'm interested in how this thread will go. I'm of the opinion that the machine decides when a win is due and if you press the stop buttons somewhere around the right time, you're going to hit a big bonus. If a win isn't due, you could be 100% accurate with your timing and still it'll miss out. It's definitely the case with pachinkos, as there is a hardware random number generator that is used to determine what you're going to get. Haven't been inside a pachislo, so I'm not familiar with the electronics used in them.

It does lead in nicely to an experiment that I'd love to have a try at. I'm sure you could attach a single board computer (raspberry pi or beaglebone, maybe even an arduino), to the reel drive signals and optos, so the computer knows exactly where each reel is, and then use outputs to trigger the stop buttons, with the right software you could make it capable of 'eye shooting' a 777 on every spin. Then you can see exactly how 'honest' the machines are.

[pachiwall]

On my 4 reel Biohaxard, (before the coin amechanism died) I initially hated the bonus round, (or whatever it's called...I haven't powered it up for awhile) You would spin over and over and be stuck on a boring screen, saying the same thing over and over. Then I read a thread where it was noted that "eye shooting" was generally useless...but you can "eye shoot" during the bonus round...and can actually get it the 1st time. I tried it (befoer it broke) AND IT WORKED! It appears that "eye shooting" is "shut off" during regular play...and is "turned on" during certain times, depending on machine. So, in a way...you are all kind of right.

[JesseLee]

On my 4 reel Biohaxard, (before the coin amechanism died) I initially hated the bonus round, (or whatever it's called...I haven't powered it up for awhile) You would spin over and over and be stuck on a boring screen, saying the same thing over and over. Then I read a thread where it was noted that "eye shooting" was generally useless...but you can "eye shoot" during the bonus round...and can actually get it the 1st time. I tried it (befoer it broke) AND IT WORKED! It appears that "eye shooting" is "shut off" during regular play...and is "turned on" during certain times, depending on machine. So, in a way...you are all kind of right.

yes, this is what i have been trying to explain. thank you pachiwall. basically the game has already decided that the player is going to win a bonus but they leave it up to the player to hit it on his own during a bonus chance. the player will forever be stuck in bonus chance until they hit the 777 on their own. for anyone that is confused about bonus chance, bonus chance is a mode that happens before a bonus. when i get home i will show some videos on players and friends hitting the bonus on the first try as soon as bonus chance mode appears. players in japan are so good at it that they can get them effortlessly. i will post those videos as well or atleast show them so everyone has better understanding.

[Ikaria]

I understand exactly what you are saying about eye shooting to 777 the reels and start a bonus round. I believe this is an extremely important skill when your actual cash is on the line. For us home users, whether you get that 777 on the first try or the eighth it's not that big of a deal when you hold the door keys.

[pachiwall]

I don't think you can "fool" the machine...or the engineers who rig it for "the house". I believe (as I am not certain) that most of the time, it is not a true skill stop. However in the bonus rounds of Biohazard (4 reel), if you don't eye shoot...you will be stuck there, if you eye shoot you will hit 777 easily. When the bonus round is over...eye shooting means nothing. I don't know how many machines are like this...but seems likely that some if not all do...to some degree.
Maybe it is so that you will lose at a pre determined rate...then when the random number generator says "it's your turn", then it becomes a skill stop, if particular machine is programmed to do so. If not programmed to do so, then eye shooting is worthless.
The skill stop buttons are not there to help you win. They are there to give the illusion that YOU are in control. As I understand it, Japanese law does not allow gambling, that is why you have to opt for the "special prize" and exchange it for cash somewhere else. As I understand it, the skill stop is to allow the authorties (gaming comission?) to allow for the slot machines...because the "skill" of the player makes it NOT gambling. Does the gambling commision know that the skill stop buttons only work sometimes...or are they only required to be active for X percentage of the time? I don't know.
Maybe this thread will encourage people to try eye shooting during bonus rounds and see. Maybe we all gave up because we believe they never work. Maybe all machines eye shoot sometimes...maybe only some machines eye shoot sometimes. Once again I don't know. I'm pretty confident that NONE of the machines eye shoot ALL of the time. I am also pretty sure that if the skill stop buttons mean nothing on all machines all the time, that it would likely be considered illegal gambling. So I do believe that it is some form of compromise.
I expect this thread to get some heavy debate from both extremes. It will be a bumpy ride...and a darn good read!

[JesseLee]

I have 6 pachislos in my house and all of them require eyeshooting on bonus chance. However, 2 of them in particular allow eye shooting during a mode called rush. Black lagoon 2 has a mode called heaven’s rush that requires eye shooting to get 3 bars diagonaly and castlevania III has a rush mode that requires eye shooting to get bars backwards from right to left. So there are other modes that have it other than bonus chance.

[JesseLee]

Also besides the modes there are short instances where eye shooting is required also. Such as a prompt to go into a rush mode or a prompt to go into other modes as well like a super hell’s rush.

[pachiwall]

Also besides the modes there are short instances where eye shooting is required also. Such as a prompt to go into a rush mode or a prompt to go into other modes as well like a super hell’s rush.

that actually makes sense. My Lucky Cherry has an indicator to let you know that a bonus round is coming up soon. I always thought that it was simply to keep the player feeding it tokens. Not saying that a bonus was not coming, just a heads up...don't stop spending yet. It makes a lot of sense that when a bonus is near, you should have to work for it!

[JesseLee]

here is an example of a mode that requires eye shooting. this mode is on black lagoon 2 called heaven's rush. in this mode, you only have a limited amount of tries to get the bars lined up as many times as possible. however, if you can line them up diagonally, it will put you in a super heaven's rush with bigger G's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqGa...ature=youtu.be

[Calypso]

How right you are...But what Jesse says about my Bio 6 video (and actually pop eye & wild wolf has done it too) makes total sense! I get it now, I EDITED that video Jesse refers to as well (it was much longer). It was annoying and I assumed (like you said pachiwall) that it was just a lame attempt to keep you feeding money into some meaningless 'pseudo bonus' mode instead of leaving (a machine that is sorta saying "I'll pay out soon" to some shmuck standing by). Sort of like the coin pusher mentality: if you put all the money in to get it close to a payout...why would you leave...But HECK that Ada Wong mode (my video) was SO annoying. It is also a little annoying to not realize that. Like...if you are going to make me think my stopping the reels is having an impact do...or dont...not flip flopping at odd intervals. Oh well at least I know to try now.

I think this is the link Jesse was referring too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcSuHb8z9Gk&t=56s

Man do I feel like a shmuck now! HAH! I was just "powering through" that crap because I was under Pachi's assumption: Due to the legal reasons parlors need to make it appear like it is a skill-based game for Japanese law, I had given up "trying" a long time ago.

I don't think you can "fool" the machine...or the engineers who rig it for "the house". I believe (as I am not certain) that most of the time, it is not a true skill stop. However in the bonus rounds of Biohazard (4 reel), if you don't eye shoot...you will be stuck there, if you eye shoot you will hit 777 easily. When the bonus round is over...eye shooting means nothing. I don't know how many machines are like this...but seems likely that some if not all do...to some degree.
Maybe it is so that you will lose at a pre determined rate...then when the random number generator says "it's your turn", then it becomes a skill stop, if particular machine is programmed to do so. If not programmed to do so, then eye shooting is worthless.
The skill stop buttons are not there to help you win. They are there to give the illusion that YOU are in control. As I understand it, Japanese law does not allow gambling, that is why you have to opt for the "special prize" and exchange it for cash somewhere else. As I understand it, the skill stop is to allow the authorties (gaming comission?) to allow for the slot machines...because the "skill" of the player makes it NOT gambling. Does the gambling commision know that the skill stop buttons only work sometimes...or are they only required to be active for X percentage of the time? I don't know.
Maybe this thread will encourage people to try eye shooting during bonus rounds and see. Maybe we all gave up because we believe they never work. Maybe all machines eye shoot sometimes...maybe only some machines eye shoot sometimes. Once again I don't know. I'm pretty confident that NONE of the machines eye shoot ALL of the time. I am also pretty sure that if the skill stop buttons mean nothing on all machines all the time, that it would likely be considered illegal gambling. So I do believe that it is some form of compromise.
I expect this thread to get some heavy debate from both extremes. It will be a bumpy ride...and a darn good read!

[JesseLee]

im glad that i have broke the ice. now i want to start discussing deeper strategies but for now i still need to film a video of me or my friend getting a bonus on the first try during a bonus chance, or maybe if you would like to practice and film a video of it, that would be cool too. just to help show other players.

[MrGneiss]

I remember many years ago getting stuck with it just saying Bonus and not doing anything until I figured out you actually had to try to get into the bonus on my machine!!

I always like those times when the wheels arent slipping and you can actually eye shoot stuff!!

[pachiwall]

Sad to say that I really don't have much love for pachislos. I am very vintage pachinko man! I only bought Biohazard because: the price was right (plus many tokens, stand and parlor tray). It was local, I only had to drive about 10 miles to pick it up. I wanted to find out why other people like pachislos so much...and the original Biohazard was highly sought after.
That being said...I still don't get it! Not a bash on those who like it, it is just not me.
I do, however;really enjoy this thread! It yakes something that I have...and makes me understand it a little better. This makes me want to explore it a bit deeper! Plus, in the future, I will look into this concept when I look at machines for sale...which I only do when good pachinko machines (really old or unusual ones) are not avaliable.
I think much useful information will come out, as people "dig in" and start searching for places where "eye shooting" is important. If enough people list enough machines and places that "eye shooting" seems to ACTUALLY exist...then it could be a good candidate for a STICKY! Thank you JesseLee for startihg a thread on such a controversial subject! It is possible that some of this information COULD make me more interested in pachislo!

[Drunkenclam]

I remember many years ago getting stuck with it just saying Bonus and not doing anything until I figured out you actually had to try to get into the bonus on my machine!!

I always like those times when the wheels arent slipping and you can actually eye shoot stuff!!

As above .
I took me a while to realise that the machine was actually telling me to try and get the bonus. You can actually spot the bonus feature as it goes past. Then count the frequency as it passes. The stop it in the right place. Although I suspect the actual stopping on the right feature is more down to the machine giving you the win by slipping the reels rather than being exact in the mark.

[Calypso]

Although I suspect the actual stopping on the right feature is more down to the machine giving you the win by slipping the reels rather than being exact in the mark.

Again! My thoughts exactly. I got a pop eye Bonus chance last night. And at the rate of spinning, I still think the machine "gives" it to you. Meaning you do not have to be "dead on" to hit. But we could go around the bases for an eternia on this. Bottom line is, now I know to try! Whether it is truely a "skill" stop or not, I am still on the fence about it. But I will accept it that it actually puts it in my favor.