Burnt up fuse! DANG!

[jodini]

So, I got my machine from 5 brothers and failed to plug the machine to the transformer and POP! Now I'm hoping all that was damaged was the two fuses. They flew fast so hopefully that's it.

So my question is this: On the fuse it says 250Volt 15amps...are those fuses FAST burn or Slow burn fuses?

Any help would be appreciated.
Joe

[daverob]

The fuse will probably read 'T15A', the 'T' signifying 'Time Delay', which are also known as anti-surge or slow blow fuses.

If you plugged the machine directly into a wall socket rather than the 24V transformer, then you'd better order a couple of extra fuses. It is very likely that the surge protection device built into the pachinko machine will have gone short circuit due to the over-voltage, and if that has happened, then your replacement fuses will blow immediately on power up.

The good news is that once the surge protection device has been removed (and replaced if you want further surge protection) and new fuses fitted, most of the time the rest of the pachinko machine will have survived the power surge unscathed.

To find the surge protection device, follow the power lead connections, past the switch and fuses, and onto the power supply board and the protection device will usually be the first component connected between the two incoming power connections. If you need help in locating it, post pictures of the power supply board front and back (preferably with the plastic case removed) and we should be able to point it out for you.

[Chumsize]

AAAiiigh! didn't get the email screaming "DONT PLUG IT IN!" (until you read this pdf on how to plug in the transformer) ??? I was aware of it but was still paranoid as hell... tested voltages just to make sure the transformer wasn't wired backwards even... Nice setup, tho. Just plug it in - no soldering or crimping.

What's the machine, BTW - may be able to locate those surge protectors for ya if we have a similar frame...

[jodini]

It's a Daichi Tom and Jerry Machine...I'm going to get some more fuses and try it out. I appreciate your help folks!

No email chumsize...just a little sticker which I read after the fact..."PLUG INTO TRANSFORMER FIRST BEFORE POWER UP". UGH!

[Chumsize]

Ah... Kazuki was sure to let me know in an email ahead of time... but now he's gone... That stinks. The plugs are identical and all... well - it's most likely fixable.
Anyway, I don't have a Daichi (that's newer than 1990)... but see if you can take care of those little blown parts before you power it up again or, as daverob says, it may just fry the fuses again.

How is Omaha these days? the "White Rabbit" bar still there downtown?

[jodini]

O.K. So here's what I did with the help of a knowledgeable helper on the phone...thanks Don!

I disconnect and removed the "N" circuts which were ZNR1, ZNR2, and ZNR3. They seemed to be the power surges. When I pulled in this board (with and without everything else plugged in), it still blew up the fuses (once, it was just one and another time, both). So I still have the "+" circuits which have C1, C2, and C3. Now in my mind they seem like they are capacitors...so I did not clip them. Should I?

Also on the board itself, NOTHING was burnt, bent over or scathed. The only damage you see in the photos are me unsoldering components.

I'm going to take this board to an electronic expert and try it again with him. If you guys have ANY advice, it would be greatly appreciated!
Joe

[Chumsize]

Hmmm. Even if they aren't blown, they might have degraded. They definitely look like surge protection varistors.

Are you sure you replaced the fuses with new ones of the same rating? Because that could do it.

Im not too familiar with the surge protection circuitry... Hopefully Dave can give more info about the capacitors r what you may need to do once you remove the varistors.

[daverob]

It's very unlikely that the capacitors will have failed, you can lift one leg to see if it makes a difference as they're just there to stop radio frequency interference getting back down the power cord, so the power supply should still be able to work without them in circuit.

The DSP1 part looks like part of the surge protection circuitry and may also have failed, so I'd lift one of the legs of that as well before you try a new fuse. If you have a multimeter, then you might want to check across these ZNR and DSP parts to see if any of them measure short circuited.

The next suspect for a fuse that blows instantly the power is applied is the main bridge rectifier (the largest of the square devices mounted on the heatsink). This can be checked with a multimeter to see if any pins are short circuited to any of its other pins.

If the bridge rectifier is OK and the fuses still blow, then the surge has got past the 'first line' components and you're likely to have damage in other areas of the machine as well. If you still want to continue with trying to repair the machine, I'd either source a replacement power supply board, or 'shotgun' the board and replace all of the semiconductor components on it (the transistors/regulators mounted on the heatsink and any other diodes on the board). But be aware that if any of these parts have failed, it's very likely that parts on other boards may also have felt the effects of the surge and may also have some damage.

[jodini]

Thanks Dave!
I'm pretty sure all the problems are on that board, because the last time I tested the board, I had it just sitting by itself, without the rest of the boards plugged in and it still blew.

Boy, I hope that main bridge rectifier didn't go. That looks like a hard part to come by. I'll get a guy more certified today to look at this board. Wish me luck!
Joe

[jodini]

Daverob,
Here's what is on the original fuse:
250V15A and {PS}ENSFFBU

I've been testing things out on 125V 15A fuses that are fast burn. I would be surprised if the difference of 125V or 250V is making a difference since only 24V is going thru the circuit...right???

So here's where I'm at folks.
I went over to my buddies house and he said the board "looks" fine but it was hard to tell if anything was wrong. He said the surge protector plugs all looked great, the DSP1 however was not making any connection...but I pointed out, if we disconnected it from the cercuit...what difference would it make.

So my point is, I have no clue what to do. If a guy in the US could check out this board, that would be awesome. I think five brothers has their foot out the door, so I don't want to bother them, alkimono might have a board...I just hope the problem is just on the board and no where else. I know the problem has to be on the board though, because nothing else is plugged into the board and it blows. This just sucks though. I know I'm not the first one to do this and I wish that either A. the transformer was wired onto the machine (like my other 4 modern machines) or B. there cut off the plug and say, wire this to transformer, or C. A big RED sticker that said, "DON'T PLUG THIS INTO 110V WALL SOCKET"!

I know it's my fault, but DANG...that was a waste of a lot of money if I can get it fixed.
Joe

[jodini]

I do have some 250Volt 15 amp fuses on order. They are fast burn, so if you feel that I should order the slow burns...let me know!
Joe

[Chumsize]

What do the originals say? The last one I had a burn in we're all different amperages, and they were shorty electronic fuses. Bought this pack at Home Depot: image.jpg

[jodini]

Here's what is on the original fuse:
250V15A and {PS}ENSFFBU

[daverob]

You need slow blow fuses, when you first power up there will be a current surge as the capacitors in the switch mode power supply charge up. While this shouldn't take a fast blow fuse out immediately, they can't handle the surge and will fail due to fatigue sooner rather than later. The 125V vs 250V won't make a difference, these fuses are only operating at 24V.

While you can tell the power supply board has a fault on it, as the fuse blows with nothing else connected. If the power surge got past the power supply board then there still could be damage on other circuit boards in this pachinko machine.

I do agree that the seller should have put a label over the pins of the 24V power lead saying that you shouldn't plug it directly into a wall socket. I know that sometimes we think that all the warning labels and 'health and safety' regulations are getting to be a bit ridiculous, but I hear about people plugging pachinkos direcly into a wall socket about once a month either from these forums or from emails sent to me via my website, so I think in this case if it's possible to make the mistake, then a warning is definitely needed.

[Chumsize]

For the sake of completeness... Have you looked at the back side of the board? Maybe post a pic. It's possible the surge fried a trace or two...

[Skydanz]

You need slow blow fuses, when you first power up there will be a current surge as the capacitors in the switch mode power supply charge up. While this shouldn't take a fast blow fuse out immediately, they can't handle the surge and will fail due to fatigue sooner rather than later. The 125V vs 250V won't make a difference, these fuses are only operating at 24V.

While you can tell the power supply board has a fault on it, as the fuse blows with nothing else connected. If the power surge got past the power supply board then there still could be damage on other circuit boards in this pachinko machine.

I do agree that the seller should have put a label over the pins of the 24V power lead saying that you shouldn't plug it directly into a wall socket. I know that sometimes we think that all the warning labels and 'health and safety' regulations are getting to be a bit ridiculous, but I hear about people plugging pachinkos direcly into a wall socket about once a month either from these forums or from emails sent to me via my website, so I think in this case if it's possible to make the mistake, then a warning is definitely needed.

Ditto

[jodini]

Hey Skydanz!

Skydanz and I looked at the back of that board for a long time last night (via skype) and there are no traces.
I did email Kazuki at 5 brothers and he said just the power board was going to cost $100.00 shipped.

I also emailed Akimono and Frank called me immediately. Frank also mentioned that their is a good chance that it could of jumped thru that board and into the first set, but probably not into the actual machine. So here's what I decided to do...remember that $100 savings I got from 5 brothers...well I bought two machines for a savings of $200.00 which I'm going to give to Akimono for a whole new frame, powersupply, electronic componets...minus the cell. So I'm going to do a cell swap and be done with this mess. Painful I know.

Now, I'm going to try to fix the power strip and hang on to it for the next poor sucker that does the same thing I do. I'll have a spare frame with extra parts. The glass if always half full! Besides I just picked up three great vintage machines today (a Ginza, Heiwa, and Daiichi)...so everything is good! I'll keep you guys posted!

So...anybody have a manual on how to swap a Daiichi cell!!!

[daverob]

Not sure if it's similar to the frame used for Tom & Jerry, but I've got a manual for the older Daiichi 'X-Gear' frame (from around 2007 if the date on the back of the manual is anything to go by).

In there the frame swap looks very simple. You open the front glass door and shooter tray door. There's a red lock lever to the lower left of the frame that needs to be rotated anti clockwise a quarter of a turn, and two red lock sliders on the right hand edge of the cell to release. Then you grab the cell at the top and bottom edge and pull it out right hand edge first. No mention of any connectors to remove first.

I'd assume that Frank should be able to advise you if the cell swap procedure is any different, he's pretty knowledgeable about these things.

[Drunkenclam]

:ditto: it takes me under a minute to do a cel swap with my x gear frame

[jodini]

Go deal! That will be nice!

Anyone want a frame with a blown power supply? Make you a deal!