Lousy day

[photos8484]

I took the dog out this morning (as I do every day), noticed wet stuff on the floor, thought it was doggy piddle. It wasn't. It was the water heater. Leaking. Big time. It's an AO Smith brand & only 4 years old. This particular one replaced the last AO Smith that went at 4+ years (btw, the warranty is, I believe, at least 5 years). The original one went with a month or so left on the warranty, so it was covered, except for plumbers charges. Anyway, the plumbers came, replaced it with a new AO Smith & presented me with a bill for almost $500. They also told me the (latest) leaking water heater is no longer under warranty because even though it had a 5+ year warranty, since it replaced the original one, the warranty only covered ONE MONTH! The plumbers said "oh well, too bad".
I emailed the company & found out this is true! (It only covers something called the 'continuation of warranty', even though the replacement was new). Boy, does that bite! In addition, $250 deductable on homeowners insurance. Plus finished basement carpet is water soaked & smells & has dirt tracks from the plumbers carting stuff in & out, a cedar lined closet is ruined inside, furniture is in various states of ruin. The good thing is I had installed teflon sliders under the oak pachislo cabinet, oak bar stools & the pachinko machine, so at least the water didn't have a chance to soak up into & ruin those. The pinball machine seems to be ok.
The point of this is to make sure you fully understand what your warranties do or do not cover, 'cause you may get a very rude awakening, dollar wise.

[johntofva]

Sorry to hear about your bad day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

[photos8484]

Thank you John. Tomorrow has got to be better! It seems the machine gods don't like me this June, for some reason... (car, kitchen faucet, other appliances, all machine things)

[slotter]

This sort of thing traditionally happens in threes, so maybe you're done?

[logicprobe]

Why is it that plumbing problems only happen on weekends and holidays, too?
I think these things are programmed at the factory with calendars!

We rented a home once with a solar hot-water tank (pre-heater) that decided to let loose one Christmas morning. An entire finished basement floor soaked! With three kids under 7 years old at the time, they spent most of the day alone while my wife and I sopped that mess up. I know what you went through today!

Sorry to hear about your day... at least tomorrow should be better than this one.

[Lazarus]

I have had water heaters leak but not ware they ruined anything in the basement. When I went to put one in on a second floor I put a round pan under it. They make them specifically for water heaters. They should have a way to connect a pipe to it that will drain the water to a trap and then into your waste water system. I would never put a water heater on a second floor or any living area ware water can damage stuff without one. I would recommend any one with a rec room in the basement to do this. Most basements have floor drains that the furnace uses to drain condensation when it is ruining. This drain will have a trap built in under the concrete so you can run a hose from the water heater pan into it. You will want to secure the tubing in some way so it is always in the drain.
All water heaters should have a way to disconnect them from the in an out water lines. They are called unions. They will separate without ether end of the pipe needing to turn. They are a must and if your plumber does not put them on(they usually don't) I would advise you to do so at the text time a water heater is replaced. If they are a good plumber they will use the ones that thread on so they can be reused on the new heater.
To prolong the usefully life of a water heater it is a good idea to drain them out at least once a year. First shut off the cold water valve going into the water heater. If it is electric turn the breaker off for it. Make sure you do this before draining! Or if it is gas shut off the gas on the control. You will have to relight the pilot light when it is full of water again. Then go take a nice long shower to use all that nice hot water. Then if you have a pan you just open the valve enough to get it to empty without splashing water all around. If no pan a hose. Be careful of the valve! Newer water heaters have a plastic cheap valve. Open it slowly. If it does not want to go Leave it! It can brake off and then you are Blanked! (There should be a smiley for this!) I have replaced many a water heater. An I don't pay plumbers unless code says I need them Or it is what I believe is beyond me. Although I have been known to pay a plumber to inspect my work. It is allot cheaper. Didn't think you were going to read a book today did ya!

[MrGneiss]

Sorry to hear about your water heater.

Since I know nothing about water heaters the only tip I can think of is maybe you shouldn't get another one from AO Smith, but I guess you already thought of that.

Hope Sunday is better and less soggy.

[photos8484]

Thank you all.
Lazarus, my heater does have a pan underneath it with an attached pipe leading to a drain. However, when the water shoots out of a seam and totally misses the pan (as it did on the first one) or simply runs out & floods over the pan (as in this one), there's not a lot one can do except shut off water when one notices it leaking. Because it is a finished basement, the heater & furnace are hidden behind two bi-fold doors in a section of basement. In front of the doors are a folded up card table & a poker table top (for on top of the card table), and in front of these are: a pinball machine, a pachislo machine & cabinet & a pachinko machine temporarily set up on a low table. So access to the heater & furnace is rather limited & the only way I'll know it is leaking is when it leaks. And yes, I do drain it at least once a year. The plumbers also informed me that this type of warranty is standard on all heaters, even those sold at Lowes & Home Depot. I don't know, but the next time I do, I'll certainly find out!
MrGneiss: yes, I did think of that, but, guess what- I have ANOTHER AO Smith heater, because that's what the plumbers carry & I really didn't have a lot of choices then. It's called BOHICA (Bend Over, Here It Comes Again).
Anyway, today is FATHERS DAY. Happy Fathers Day to all you fathers out there! I plan to enjoy mine.

[arbycoffee]

Mark you calendar for four years form now and during the week have the water heater replaced. Different brand too!

[photos8484]

I know. I've thought of that too.

[arbycoffee]

there are water alarms for water heater. it detecs the water and makes connection and a buzzer go of, saw them atÂ… Lows or Menards

[luckydog]

I would also like to mention that you should check or replace your wash machine hoses.

years ago I had a hot water line burst on our washing machine during the nite and the whole house was in 1 to 3 inches of water.

On your home owner's insurance everyone should get replacement value, it is very low cost and they will pay whatever the replacement cost of damages minus deductable.

I had to replace all the carpeting, plus some damaged furniture. insurance company paid full cost minus depuctable.

[Lazarus]

Never thought of the seam bursting. When I have had a heater fail in has been from rusting out at the bottom. I must have caught them in time while the leak was small. Makes you wander when the building inspector demands you fallow the building codes and put a pan underneath the heater in a second story installation when it probably won't help if like you said the heater can fail all at once and in a big way. I like that Idea of a water alarm from Arby. Unfortunately it would not work for me at this time. It would go off everytime it rained. My basement floods out big time. No game room in my basement!
I read some articles about home owners insurance and they hate any type of water damage. In some states even one one water damage claim and they dropped you and blacklisted you so other companies didn't have to cover you or at least not without making you pay a huge premium. Not that they don't charge enoghe in the first place.

[slotter]

Thanks for the reminder on the washing machine hose, LD. I've been meaning to do that for about 6 months and this thread got me worried enough that I'm going out today and getting some new ones to put on.

[photos8484]

Thanks, Luckydog, for the reminder about washing machine hoses. (I think you can buy stainless steel lifetime hoses).

I went to Lowes with a mission (thanks, Arby): I got a water alarm for a little over $13. I also asked their water heater guru (the one the other clerks referred me to) about heater warranties. They sell Whirlpool brands & have a crew who installs them. There is a lifetime heater by Whirlpool they sell, and, according to the guru, the warranty starts anew with any replacement, and it is only about $398 plus about $150 for installation for a 50 gallon tank. In fact, he said if any of their Whirlpools fail within the warranty, all anyone needs to do is call Whirlpool, get a certain authorization number & go to Lowes. He said he's never seen anyone turned down if it fails within warranty period. (However, I've learned: "Let the buyer beware!" My NEW AO Smith is only 40 gal. Next time I'll know & I definitely will NOT use these plumbers, nor will I go with AO Smith anymore. That's what the alarm is for: 4 years.

[birdbrain]

do a web search for consumer protection in pa. i think you'll find the attorney general will tell you all warrenties start anew when replaced under warrenty. so you need to contact your a.g. cause a.o.smith is trying to #%^# you!

[David Wile]

Hey Photos,

If you had to pay a plumber $500 in labor costs to replace your water heater, let me know the next time, and I will come out to Altoona and do it for you for $250. It really isn't that hard of a job, and water heaters (if electric) are not that expensive. Come to think of it, I think I would be happy to replace electric water heaters all day long for $500 each - and that would include the cost of a new water heater. It really is not hard to learn how to do the plumbing if you have someone to help you.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[monaghj]

You might want to check into some of the consumer watch web sites. It is possible that a high number of these things are defective. If so there might be some recourse. You might also write a letter to the manufacture expressing your dismay. I doubt that they would do anything for your plumbing costs but they might reimburse you the partial cost of the water heater. After all 3 units makes you a pretty loyal customer.

[photos8484]

Dave: the $500 included the cost of the new water heater {gas, btw} (call it[#3]), because it was not covered under the warranty because the one it replaced (call it [#2]) replaced the water heater (call it [#1]) that WAS covered under warranty (by one month remaining within the warranty period, btw). So heater [#2] only had a warranty of one month... 4 years later, [#2] had been out of warranty (unknown to us, of course) for 3 years 11 months. So [#3] is a brand new heater with a new, fresh-from-the-start warranty.
I got another reply from AO Smith who is now telling me because I have a water softener & because I didn't replace the anode rod within a year & because I don't have a thermal expansion tank on my system, this caused the system to fail. Does this void the waranty or not? I don't know. They haven't said, they merely let me know that this will cause a tank to fail earlier. Hey, if this is important, then I should be told, and told in no uncertain terms. I don't even have warranty papers, neither on [#3] nor on [#2]. And that brings into focus my issue with the plumbers, whom we've used for years... if they're going to keep the warranty info & things I need to do (like replace the anode rod every year) & other 'secret sign & handshake' things from me, then I consider them also responsible for this.
If my failure to perform yearly anode replacement voids the warranty, then I'll hold the plumbers responsible because they didn't tell me; if my failure does not void the warranty, then my issue is still with AO Smith's ****ty 'continuation of warranty' crap.
I'm in the process of continuing this. My wife has left a message for the plumbing company owner to get with her. So far, no response.

[Lazarus]

What a bunch of cr$pp! By the time you pay a plumber to do that every year and that tank you could just pay for a new tank when it went. Also A water softer is supposed to prolong a tank by getting some of the hard water out of the system so it does not build up in the bottom of the tank. Time for a new plumber and a different heater manufacture!