Selling to people in California
I live in a state where any type of slot machine is legal to own as long as you don't use it as a gambling device. Now if I sell a pachislo and ship it to somebody in California, can I get in trouble or is it the person receiving the machine responsible?
Inquiring minds want to know.
]INIT HELLO
Both, if it's illegal to sell in that state, you are breaking that state's law. Now are they going to come hand-cuff you for selling a single machine. Probably not but I'm sure they would confiscate and destroy it. Until it's in the buyers hands, it's your property.
Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.
To be truthful, I just don't understand why a state would make them illegal. You can buy cards and chips. Why is a pachislo different?
Life
It's what happens
When you least expect it.
yeah but the good thing is fedex dont care what people ship.......kind of dont ask dont tell
I understand what you are saying, Iowa twenty some years back was in the process of making it illegal to sell a convertible in the state of Iowa. Convertibles caused more death with out a solid roof.Originally Posted by johntofva
To be truthful, I just don't understand why a state would make them illegal. You can buy cards and chips. Why is a pachislo different?
So letÂ’s outlaw it!
The problem they hit was all tractors were convertibles too, back than, they would have outlawed them also. Well being a Farm State and every farmer owns at least one tractor, it dies quickly.
The sad point here is we pay them!
"This is My Personal Opinion and no others"
I agree, like your 'yellow ' guys - turn around and they stick it to ya
Hey everyone...
Im a live in california and have been having the same problem....I ended up finding a few places that would sell to me, probably because im a california military non resident. but while I was trying to buy, I asked slot liquidators and Tina over there explained it to me that the california law is kinda grey in the matter and as for machines that can not be readily moded to coin operated they can be sold to someone in california....but the way that cali has tried to deter companies is that if you are going to sell those to someone in cali they need to pay a yearly fee and then they need to submit a quarterly report of all the machines they have sold and who to. I dont know if all this is true but just thought Id share what I was told on the subject....
**New Trad**Disco Queen**
Hey Spawn I just thought of this, Since you are in the military then most likely you are living on base, if so then you are on a federal reserve and state law does not apply there, that is how the indians get away with it.
I remember when I was in the Air Force many moons ago, the local authorities could not come on base, even if they were chasing me lights and sirens blaring, once I was through that gate they couldn't follow (but the base police would be more than willing of course).
This is something you might want to look into.
This is my personal opinion, or of the voices in my head, and are not meant to reflect the opinion of this board.
Lddrizzt,
yeah, thats what a few places asked....but no, I do not live on base. there isnt even a real "military" base where im at...Im in the coast guard, so we all live off base.....
**New Trad**Disco Queen**
Hmmmm....
Maybe some of those containers that carry pachi MIGHT have some contraband hidden in them. Maybe you could "search and seize" a few.
logicprobe
Retired - Living on a Wing and a prayer!
office
have the machine sent to your office.
if you can't laugh at yourself then laugh at someone else
logicprobe,
hmm......yeah...I think I could come up with a hot tip...a few vessles that need to be searched...but, I came to hate boats so much that I went aviation...so unfortunatly I cant do that...oh well...that would be a great plan though
**New Trad**Disco Queen**
Pachislo in California
:confused: California has a 25 year old law that makes it illegal to have any slot machine newer. Penal Code Section 330 states that even ones that take tokens are illegal, a token or even a credit showing ,to them, is deemed something of value. Unfortunantly, that makes the Pachislo's illegal because they are not 25 years or older. BUT they are all over the place as well as the newer slots! The only person I know who has been arrested was some guy who opened up a Slot shop on Main St with 4 and 5 year old IGT's! Well, that was plain stupid, someone in Vegas reported him to the Sheriff (Gaming Commission). But it can happen and it carries a $10,000 fine. Most Delaers don't want to risk losing their slot license to sell in California unless it is a 25 year or older machine. Thank goodness the newer Pachinko's that have reels in them are legal. Some people say the pachislo's are a game of skill and therefore are not subect to PC 330. But we all know they are computer controlled and what we do has little to determine where the wheels may stop- it is all predetermined just like the Vegas newer slots. In other words, that stop button really means little, the wheels will stop where the computer tells them too. The California law is ridiculous. We all know there is nothing different from a 23 year old machine and a 26 year old one. A "Slot is a slot" just like a "Duck is a duck". But California being border on Nevada, well you can surmise why they have this stupid law. It would make much more sense to me to make gambling illegal and let us have our playful machines that we love! It is very frustrating to me to live in this State with such stupid laws. Now they have a Gaming Commission as well, just what we need is another layer of Government! But I can't imagine anyone bothering you if you have one of these newer machines unless you have an enemy who knows the law, which few really do. Or you gamble with them, etc and the word gets out somone is running a "joint"- Good luck!To be truthful, I just don't understand why a state would make them illegal. You can buy cards and chips. Why is a pachislo different?
Amen, and WELCOME, Bob!
Re: Selling to people in California
These are not "Slot Machines", that is a nickname. Ballys are "Slot Machines". These are no more illegal than Ski-Ball, and Skill-Crains, and gumball machines with "Super Prizes" inside, and on-line slots...
BELOW HERE IS ONLY MY OBSERVATIONS OF THE LAW AS I HAVE SEEN THEM PORTRAYED IN REAL WORLD SITUATIONS.
The legality comes into play when you attempt to use a machine which takes coinage and pays coinage that can be cashed into USD. You need a gambling license and business ID and registration with certified gambling odds inspector agencies.. etc...
If you are using "Gambling", directly or indirectly to proffit in an unregulated environment, you are breaking the law. This includes selling gambling equipment and services, as well as phicically providing a gambling medium. (I am about 99% sure that these laws are forced into office by the neighboring states that have LEGAL gambling, so that you never get a chance to LEARN about gambling unless you are LEARNING on thier machines! Also for controlling those who intend to proffit more by "Tax Evasion" from these organized underground events.)
END OF BLURB...
One comment about "The machine picks your spin stops...", Wrong, sort-of...
When you are in a "Bonus round" your wins are predetermined, and the wheels will advance to force a winning or loosing combo. However, In normal mode, I can hit 777 on many machines without effort, no matter what the odds are set at. If the odds are low, you win less in the bonus rounds...
I can not say that all machines are created equal, because I can play some machines and never stop on any identifying symbol... Even when I cheat by marking the wheel with a counter spot. (Mark the third symbol back from the desired symbol on the side of the wheel with a piece of white/black tape... it takes your brain about that long to react phisically.)
It is all in the timing... and a little in the sympathy code... LOL, Just kidding! There is no sympathy code, but I do tend to win more on my last six credits, more than my first six credits...
Re: Selling to people in California
QUOTE... There is no sympathy code, but I do tend to win more on my last six credits, more than my first six credits...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know I wondered about this too. Seems like I win a little in either credits or free plays just as I'm about to run out of credits. Perhaps this is an enticement to keep a person feeding in tokens thinking they are about to hit a bonus!!
Randy Wright, Urban ArchaeologistPachinkos.... BUNNIES - DISCO QUEEN - DRAGON CHANCEPachislo.... TWIST - HANAFUDA - TATSUJIN
Re: Selling to people in California
Pachis can and WILL jump to deprive you of payouts. if you insist otherwise, here let me give you one token, see if you can hit it. I bet you won't be able to hit with one token, even with a reel guide handy. They dont' jump ALL the time, but enough that you can't just hit the 15 token payout back to back to back to back. believe me, there are people who could empty those things every time if they didn't cheat. That's why they cheat.
California law is VERY clear actually. they are clearly classified as slot machines, once you examine their programming. TOken in and out does not exempt them because tokens can be bought and sold. I think even modern pachinkos are pushing it, but they tend to look the other way for those.
The real kicker is the phrase in the definition any element of hazard or chance, or any other element not predictable to the player. They put this in becaue microprocessor controlled slot machine can't have true randomness. their RNG is simply a counter in constant and rapid motion. it is totally non random. if you hit it at the right time, you get the jackpot. But it's contents are invisible to the player, therefore the player can't predict it. therefore it's effectively random. This also gets the pachislos, though. they have an invisible "skill" setting that the player can't determine. this is one element unpredictable to the player. and they sometimes jump the reels past where you stop them. whether or not it will do that is unpredictable to the player. In addition, it pays out what it takes in. and that's enough to make it a slot machine. redemption games that have gambling elements (like those redemption bingo games) are legal because they take money, but give out tickets, which have a LOWER value than the money you put in, aand cannot be exchanged for cash. it is nearly always cheaper to buy a ticket prize outright from somewhere else.
Furhermore, antique slots made in the usa are alowed becaue of historical interest. even if you did get a 25 year old pachislo, (which is quite possible now, or if not now, soon!) it may still get confiscated. The *spirit of the law* for this one is coded in.
So yeah, don't sell to CA.
Yes, the law sucks, and i think it should be legal to own such devices, provided you don't actually gamble with them. That's how it is for antique slots.
Re: Selling to people in California
While this has nothing to do with California and Pachislos, you may find it interesting anyway. In my younger days Galveston, Texas was "wide open," gambling, slot machines just about everywhere. But a "do-gooder preacher" from Houston, 45 miles away, took it upon himself to outlaw gaming in a seaport city so close to his home.
He was sucessful, but the builders of slots tried to get around the law, and for a short time were sucessful.
Check the link below, you may find a touch of sad humor there.
http://rwatts.cdyn.com/Machines/Hunter.html
My friends site is excellent for information on antique slot machines.
Home page: http://rwatts.cdyn.com/
Last edited by Tony Junior; 05-16-2005 at 06:19 PM.
Check my member page here or...
Temporarily, go to youtube.com and search for BudgeRahe for videos. Until I get the links set up in the museum
Re: Selling to people in California
A few years ago I talked to a lawyer friend about the California Law on "Skill Stop" slots and he looked at the law and came up with these opinions. 25 years old is OK, anything else might cost you some time and money in court. There are several grey areas but since the state has more money than you do, you will probably loose if you try and exploit one of them and at the very least it you win it will cost you alot of time and money.
Re: Selling to people in California
I'm sorry, but unless its in true skill mode all the time it's a slot machine. no getting around it.
That said a slot machine that never spun in a win would be legal, because then you aren't gambling. (someone actually did that in another state somewhere. he set up a slot with 0% payout, and when poepe complained that it never hit, he came back and said "of course it never hits. if it did that would be gambling, and gambling is illegal!") Of course, if you misrepresented it that woud be fraud, so I don't reccomend anyone try this stunt.
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