Token In/Out counter

[fronzdan]

any ideas on how to set up a counter for number of games played? I could wire it to tokens in, but how would I get the counter to only count once for 3 tokens in?

You mean with hardware? Arrgghh....gonna have to scrape off some rust for that one. One way would be to make a modulo-3 counter..so that every third pulse you get a reset. You'd connect that reset to your hardware counter. You can make a mod-3 counter out of one of the standard mod counter chips....I think it's an LS90/HC90. I'll have to think about it how to wire it.

You can do it with a couple JK flip flops too....just looked it up and found this.....


Modulo "m" Counter
Suppose we want a counter which has only m states and goes through the states cyclicly. If m = 2n (n an integer), there is no problem; we just use n flip-flops with http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image65.gifi connected to Ci+1. But suppose we want something else with a minimum of flip-flops. We will need n flip-flops, where 2n ³ m, to have enough distinct Q combinations. Let us consider the simplest example, m = 3. Let us construct a suitable table of states:
If we can construct such a system, we will have the desired counter.
Now we know toggling (connecting http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image65.gifi to Ci+1) won't work, so let us connect the input to all clock inputs. Now let us see what states J1K1 and J2K2 should be in.
We will get the right transition at the first clock pulse if at time t0 we have J1K1 = 1x and J2K2 = 0x. (Verify this with the truth table.) Let us now expand our table of states to include possible JK values.
Now examining the J1K1 column, we see that we will get the correct J1K1 input if we connect K1 permanently to the 1 state and J1 to http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image65.gif2. Similarly, everything is satisfied if we connect J2 to Q1 and K2 to http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image65.gif1. Thus the following circuit is a modulo 3 counter. There are clearly other correct connection sets.

http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image72.gif

Note also that this counter is a divide by 3 counter. Looking at Q2 and recalling that there is one clock pulse for each state change, we see that for every 3 clock pulses, there is one Q2 pulse. The pulse is, as shown below, not symmetric, being low twice as much time as it is high.

http://www.physics.utah.edu/~springe...es/Image73.gif

[alstonj1]

wouldnt it be easier to tap the signal sent by the reel start switch to drive the counter instead ...... would give actual reading that way ....cant play a game with out starting the reels can ya?????

[fronzdan]

wouldnt it be easier to tap the signal sent by the reel start switch to drive the counter instead ...... would give actual reading that way ....cant play a game with out starting the reels can ya?????

Yeah, but that would be simpler. Isn't the goal to make it as complex as possible in a geeky sort of way??

That would certainly work...I just don't know where to tap off the start switch. They probably debounce the signal, so you'd want to tap off in the right place...somewhere on the control board on the door? They probably use the same schmitt trigger setup as the reel stop board.

[alstonj1]

its usually the same technology as the coin mech except only one signal either high all the time or low all the time (voltage varies between models)and opposite when tripped by the start switch blocking the light . shouldn't be hard to trigger a driver for a relay in the same manor.

[websherpa]

If I want to hook up analog Token In / Out meters using the CN4 connector on the Parlour Status Relay boards I think from the schematic provided elsewhere that the relays are simply completing a circuit from each signal pin to the common external ground pin 6, right?

If I wanted to use a readily available 24vdc souce and ground available within the machines themselves, can anyone suggest where would a good place or places to tap them? I am supposing pins 1 & 2 of CN1 but other than that?

Also, in MCS Consulting Services schematic it says that a +24V external voltage must be supplied, and I suppose it is set up for 24volts, but can anyone explain to me why 24volts, and could a lower voltage be driven by the relays, say 5VDC?

Also, what does CT Bonus stand for?

Unless there's an easily accessible power point, I think I will likely connect the counting meters as described on pachislousa.com's site, directly to the active side of the relays and add my own 4 pin wire harness and connector to go to two counting meters.

[compirate]

The count lines are simple on/off signals. No power needed for these type of counters.

I installed several (before parlor battle counters came along) - Thread here

Not sure how much power the relays can handle (not near any to see).



A company in Japan has computer software/hardware for counting. Sells for 12,700Y (110.43US).

CT Bonus = Chance Time Bonus, I guess it signals only when a bonus is won during a Chance Time.

[fronzdan]

If I want to hook up analog Token In / Out meters using the CN4 connector on the Parlour Status Relay boards I think from the schematic provided elsewhere that the relays are simply completing a circuit from each signal pin to the common external ground pin 6, right?

Correct. It shorts the input signal to the external ground you supply. If you were looking to get an actual pulse for that signal, you'd use a pullup to some voltage and connect the other side of the resistor to the connector.

If I wanted to use a readily available 24vdc souce and ground available within the machines themselves, can anyone suggest where would a good place or places to tap them? I am supposing pins 1 & 2 of CN1 but other than that?

That's fine there.

Also, in MCS Consulting Services schematic it says that a +24V external voltage must be supplied, and I suppose it is set up for 24volts, but can anyone explain to me why 24volts, and could a lower voltage be driven by the relays, say 5VDC?

That's only the voltage they use in the pachi parlors. The relays are spec'd to switch a voltage that high. They probably use the higher voltage to overcome noise that would be introduced in long signal lines. You can use 5V if you want.

[alstonj1]

the 24 v + can be got at the fuse on the relay board and i used the negative from the token overflow to power my hopper mod so it'll power your relays with no problem wayne .....

[websherpa]

the 24 v + can be got at the fuse on the relay board and i used the negative from the token overflow to power my hopper mod so it'll power your relays with no problem wayne .....

I'm sort of moving towards counters with their own power supplies now, but just to complete this train of thought, if I were to use the 24V+ from the fuse on the relay board, could I also use the ground found there?

My thinking, though is that I might as well go off the power provided on the board that powers the relay if I am taking power from the machine anyway and not truly isolating it, right?

[alstonj1]

i dont see why not if it'll power a hopper your counters no problem......

[websherpa]

After reviewing Japanese auctions a bit, I see they sell modified Pedometer's as token counters so I thought I might try my had at it. Creating them was easy, but they didn't end up working quite the way I expected.

I bought this US$5 pedometer, but perhaps I should have hunted for a dollar store one, or bought a couple boxes of cereal....

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pedom...28Small%29.jpg

Took them apart and tested which leads were the switch (pretty obvious), and tested polarity. THere is a weight which bounces up and down (as seen in the one on the right), that makes contact (each step). The spring is actually the wire to the positive terminal. I removed the spring and the weight arm.

There were little angle brackets on the terminals held in by screws, I used these as my contact points for the new wires, I soldered, but you wouldn't have to, you could put wires on the with just the screws.

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pedom...28Small%29.jpg

I used a white wire for my negative (that goes to Pin 6 of the CN4 Header 8 connector on the status board. And a yellow wire for the positive count signal, that will go to Pin 1 for Token In Signal from the relay on the status board.

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pedom...28Small%29.jpg
*

I added a second pedometer so I could count Tokens Out as well... I simply wired the negatives together...probably not ideal, but it works.

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pedom...28Small%29.jpg
*

Here are the two pedometers after connecting them to the approriate pins on the status board with alligator clips (I have to go look for the proper 8 pin connector another time). And they're working away. Left is Tokens In, Right is Tokens Out.

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pedom...28Small%29.jpg

Only it's NOT counting Tokens In and Tokens out.

Here's where I goofed, the counting resolution of the pedometer is such that it can't "see" the rapid fire of the relays as they count tokens, it only senses one switch per play (or Game as it's referred to in Japan) and one switch per win. So really the counters count Games vs. Wins (a rough token count can be had by multiplying Games by "3" on this max bet machine, and Wins by 10 - 15 tokens per win - unfortunately with counting only "wins" you can't get an accurate token out count).

Someone earlier was asking how to count Plays, this would be one way, a counter with a low resolution such that it only counts each 1, 2, or 3 relay hits as 1 game.

I wonder if the pedometers they sell on Yahoo Auction Japan count faster or are further modified? I suspect that the low resolution is purposeful as it would eliminate false counts when counting steps or jogging, since the "weight" in the device would have a tendency to bounce.

Interesting things I learned along the way:

Using the Status board clicks as a reference, the relays count the Tokens In, after the Spin knob is pressed, so tokens loaded aren't counted until they are played (I guess the logic is that preloaded tokens can be "released" from the machine before they are played by the Credit button).

Replays are counted as (three) Tokens Out by the relays when you win (and then 3 Tokens In when you hit the spin knob) - I thought that was odd, as it would screw up the actual token count even though they cancel each other.

Oh yes, and since starting this experiment, my Neo Pharaoh Zetz has apparently walked 0.029 miles and burned 12 calories... :13:

[slotter]

Cool experiment, Wayne. Thanks for sharing that with us! Even if it didn't work the way planned, it got me thinking.

And, I'm glad your machines are getting proper exercise!

[alstonj1]

hey wayne heres a thought you might try hooking the big bonus up to the reset switch on the pedometer but i'd use a time delay relay so you could at least see the count before it resets to count up games till the next bb and another till the chance bonus sounds intresting i might give this a try my self ......if you take the pulse off the coin mech you might find its slower than the rapid count on the relay board . just need to find out if your coin mech is constant voltage on or off then use that to trigger a tranny to fire the relay .should work.....

[websherpa]

After reviewing the Japanese modified Pedometer Counters for Pachislo ads more closely I am pretty certain these also only count "games" not individual tokens.

[websherpa]

I think it was fronzdan was looking for hooking up the slots to PC software, I found at least a couple links by searching for this on google: "カウンター パチスロ " which I think loosely translates to "pachislo counter"

including one promising experiment that I am reviewing here: http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

or here: http://page.freett.com/datacounter/index1.htm

[Czyotto]

Here are the relay board schematics from Gerrimat.

http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/show...ght=schematics


AL