What's fair to expect from vendors and Ebay sellers?

[dattia]

I wiped down the outside of mine...that's it.

[Tony Junior]

I spend more time playing mine then cleaning them.

I don't expect perfection, they are used, not new and I take that into consideration.

The few complaints i have had were taken care of by all the dealers one way or another.

Of course my Bunny Girls from Arby was perfect

Ditto Lucky!

Except I don't have a Bunny Girl, but all the rest....perfect!

[slotter]

I get a lot of enjoyment out of really going over the machines by cleaning them, etc. very carefully when first received. If I didn't have fun doing it, guess I wouldn't do so. Plus, one basically really learns about each machine by going over them with the proverbial fine-toothed comb.

[alstonj1]

one may learn placement of objects in the machine by the perverbial comb . but to really intimatly know your machine requires a probe . NOT WHAT YOUR THINKING ....... a meter and probes really tell you what makes it tick . although the ocasional misplacement of the probe could lead to what your thinking when you say OH sh@# i'm screwed now as the smoke rises ....

[pfurman]

Pfurman, The vendors should use a semi-gloss paint, but they don't. I agree with you 100%, it really sucks.

The local vendor I have near me uses semi-gloss and the machines look and stay looking awesome. Too bad he wants way too much money for his machines. I saw a King Camel go for $400 just before x-mas.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is a reasonable price for an awesome-looking King Camel with 3 Syscom volume controllers installed?

[dalto]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is a reasonable price for an awesome-looking King Camel with 3 Syscom volume controllers installed?

Depends on who your market is. If you are selling locally in a metropolitan or near-metrolpolitan market through a storefront I would expect to be able to get $300-$400 minimum.

On ebay, much less.

[Stealth]

All....I have read this thread and understand your concerns! Thanks as well for the phone calls informing me of the problem. I am going on record for all to see that I acknowledge your concern. But, please don't expect me to fix a broken process overnight! I welcome the input and observations and cannot fix what I don't know about. As you have read in this detailed thread, this is an industry wide situation, and not just my company. I appreciate the phone calls and speaking to each and every one of you, but when you call and want to know what I am going to immediately do to rectify the situation, please do not get upset when I don't have a good immediate answer for you! If anyone wants to call and speak to me, I am available and would love to discuss this or any other topic. For now, please let me observe, assess and determine the best, most cost effective solution to your concerns! Thanks and Happy Holidays! Milt

[pfurman]

One of the questions we have to ask ourselves is; How much more are we willing to pay for finely detailed machines? I know I've taken every machine I've purchased from any seller and re-detailed it to meet my standards. It generally takes an hour or more.

I always make sure that the machines I sell don't need the same treatment, but I'm selling machines as a hobby, and therefore place very little value on my time. I can tell you that none of us would want to pay for my detailing if I was charging what I make at my day-job

People act confused when they pick out a machine in my garage and I ask them to stick around or come back in an hour or so. Even if I detailed the machine a few days earlier, it'll need almost an hours worth of attention if it's been sitting in the garage being played by every potential buyer that walks through.


Oddly enough, I almost always seem to hit a bonus of some sort during the final testing. If I know the seller will appreciate it, I'll leave it in bonus mode when I pack it up

I think we (and Slotter/Don) are pretty much all on the same page as far as this goes. Our "guarantee" on any machine we sell is as follows: This machine IS as refurbished as we can possibly make it. And WE point out anything that is less than ideal that we are aware of on each and every machine.

At least that way, a prospective buyer can make as informed a choice as possible. We also are in the process of taking photos - inside and out - of each machine, so we can make up a full color user manual/play guide that fits the machine based on the photos.

[pfurman]

All my machines have taken nearly 8 hours each to be put into the condition I want them. Some much more. Every square inch (inside and out) has been cleaned with Q-tips, toothpicks, etc. Scratches and nicks are all polished out until invisible or gone, etc. But, that isn't to say they weren't shipped in reasonable condition... I just want them as perfectly cleaned and polished as is possible.

Yep. Been there...done that. (Although we, and I'm sure you do as well, spend more time playing than polishing. It's just that in order for us to really enjoy/enhance the playing, we like (need?) to know that the machines are as good as they can be.)

[pfurman]

All....I have read this thread and understand your concerns! Thanks as well for the phone calls informing me of the problem. I am going on record for all to see that I acknowledge your concern. But, please don't expect me to fix a broken process overnight! I welcome the input and observations and cannot fix what I don't know about. As you have read in this detailed thread, this is an industry wide situation, and not just my company. I appreciate the phone calls and speaking to each and every one of you, but when you call and want to know what I am going to immediately do to rectify the situation, please do not get upset when I don't have a good immediate answer for you! If anyone wants to call and speak to me, I am available and would love to discuss this or any other topic. For now, please let me observe, assess and determine the best, most cost effective solution to your concerns! Thanks and Happy Holidays! Milt

Since I started the thread, and since I know you recently spoke with b/f, I want to thank you personally for addressing the problem head on. It was and remains my intent to get this thing worked out constructively, not destructively. I hope other top vendors follow your lead. Thanks again, and Happy Holidays, Milt!

[RKnarr01]

I have experienced some overspray on my machines but it comes off easy so i expect that for the price i get them for. I personally have been pleased with every machine I have got from Milt (stealth). When you sell in huge quantities like the major vendors do if you spent the time to go over every machine til it was perfect it would probbly add $30 or so onto the price of the machines.

[slotter]

Any overspray I've had also came off very easily and I never really considered it a big deal or a problem.

[arbycoffee]

Hired labor cost in the eastern part of the USA with workmens comp and insurance, holidays and vacations. Probalely rounds out at $30 an hour, so to do the job asked in above i think the cost of $100 a pop per machine would not be out of line.

Now how many are willing to pay the extra C note for the slot they got to have it fully tricked out ?

OH remember the shipping cost are going up after the first of the year, with all the major carriers (UPS, FedEx, DHL).

But many are right about advertizing it correctly, if the vendor is not going to clean well don't say "thoroughly refurbished as good as new".

The ones that are guilty about this aren't here to read this anyway. So as long as the buyer looks at price above all else. there will not be any changes.

[dishpan]

Posted about a year ago. Well said, thanks Bilko44!

Originally Posted by Bilko44

The PERFECT Dealer

What makes a perfect dealer?

Quickly price comes to mind but let's not be too hasty. Nothing is ever as easy as it first appears to be.

A quick bit of history.

Although the Japanese Pachinko game has been around for a number of years now, its popularity has blossomed in the US only within the last three or four years. This is due to several factors including more exciting play with motorized ball launch, higher payouts with fever rounds and exciting sound, color and video effects.

The importing and adapting of these games to the American home consumer market was greatly expanded when it was discovered that eBay could become the perfect sales place for these exotic games. There was and IS money to be made selling Pachinko!

Several entrepreneurs and companies have tried to exploit this lucrative niche but soon discovered profit margins are directly related to keeping overhead down, increasing service capabilities and ,this is where we come in, educating the buying public to the pleasures of playing Pachinko.

So what does all this mean?

Today, the number of dealers selling Pachinko games on eBay is limited to about 4 major players. This decrease in numbers has led to a decline in supply and variety of games available to you and I.

The other unpleasant aspect is the increase in price on the games. In other words, we now are facing a possible control of supply of games offered and at prices that would shock most of us. That is, of course, bordering on a monopoly and we consumers can be held hostage if we are not able to control our spending habits.

What happens next?

As a reader of this forum, you have already made the most critical step in determining what the perfect Pachinko dealer should be. You are educating yourself as to which dealers are honest, fair and can provide service at a reasonable price if problems arise.

A dealer who is rude, arrogant, and unwilling to resolve problems does not deserve our patronage and they will eventually wither on the vine. Equally so, those dealers who have a good reputation here, must work each day to maintain that level of respect.

Recently, we have noticed at least one dealer try to disassociate himself from our forum as he felt our members expected special consideration. The relationship between buyer and seller should be a positive one. Every good salesman recognizes the potential for repeat sales from satisfied customers.

What he is actually dealing with is the reality that informed potential buyers, such as our readers, know what to expect and that failure to state warranty policies or whether balls are included sends up a red flag to customers. (The dealer later corrected his listings and posted a somewhat negative statement regarding any additional breaks for buyers.)

This means we as buyers always hold the trump card. It is that if we don't buy, the dealer doesn't prosper.

The future looks bright for new games and bleak for good prices.

It is no secret that the 2004 games from Japan are finding their way here and the games will be even more sophisticated than ever. The market for movie themed and cartoon character games remains strong and will help dealers make lots of money because such games also attract new buyers more interested in the theme than the actual game. (Just look at the high prices realized for custom themed aftermarket modifications to many pachislo games.)

If dealers place all their purchases into these games, we Pachinko game enthusiasts will miss out on many of the more challenging and popular games in Japan that may not have as broad an appeal to buyers. Sea Story is a perfect example. It is an aquatic themed game that is extremely fun to play and many articles in Japan have been written on strategies on how to play this game. If our dealers disregard this game as not worth their time because it may not appeal to as many buyers, then we lose.

What do we look for in a perfect dealer?

A perfect dealer woos not only the first time buyer but encourages the past buyers to make another purchase with special incentives for their loyalty.

A perfect dealer is pleasant, patient and quickly answers communications regarding their product.

A perfect dealer realizes that games do occasionally arrive with damage or they are inoperable. As such, return and repair policies should be clearly stated in all listings.

A perfect dealer should provide accurate descriptions and photographs of their products for sale. If the product illustrated is not the exact one a buyer may receive, then such information must be clearly stated and photographs attached to show such variations.

A perfect dealer should be willing to service what they sell. If they cannot, then an appropriate disclaimer must be stated in the listing.

A perfect dealer encourages suggestions for improvement from its customers and makes efforts to always be better than the day before.

And a reminder as to what makes a perfect customer

The perfect customer is courteous, reads the listings carefully and asks all questions about a listing well enough in advance to give the dealer time to respond.

The perfect customer understands that insurance claims vary with the shipping service and that claims may take time to resolve. Some dealers make resolution prior to a claim being processed with the insurance provider, but most have to wait along with you.

The perfect customer pays promptly.

The perfect customer understands how eBay and Paypal works and is familiar with conflict resolution procedures should problems arise.

Replies and thoughts are welcome.
__________________
Dennis
I have a passion for Pachinko!

[dishpan]

And in the same thread;

Originally Posted by logicprobe

Dealers often times see the internet as a place for sales only. Some believe it is no more than a giant storefront... simply a place to make a sale... with extremely low overhead.

What they often fail to realize is that long before the "web", (and especially the commercialization of it), the internet existed for the purpose of exchanging information. I'm not just talking about email here... I'm talking about discussion threads (newsgroups), bulletin boards, and forums. These continue to live and thrive as more and more people discover others that share similar interests. Now, not only has the WWW expanded possibilities for sales, it has also expanded the opportunity for sharing of information between buyers that existed long before sales hit the 'net.

Consider the personal computer and software user groups (obviously, the first to start such "forums" as a direct offshoot of their hobby).
These user groups were often local... and often limited to major cities because of long distance telephone charges. The internet changed all that. User groups tied together to share their knowledge and information. What resulted was a more informed user base, with the exchange of both information AND opinions, and the phenomena of users helping users as a first line of technical support.

Companies that were savvy enough to recognize that phenomena supported those groups with additional knowledge, discounts on hardware and software for members, and even sponsored seminars and workshops aimed at attracting that user base. Some recognized these groups as a powerful voice, and they were willing to support them. Companies that chose to ignore those user groups were ignored BY the user groups. Few, if any, of those companies remained in business. Word spread fast on the information super-highway.

What you see on your screen now is indeed a phenomena. A user group with common interests in a relatively small niche market. Users sharing information, opinions, support (technical and otherwise), and even humor. Some dealers recognize this. Some realize the forum's growth of nearly 800 members, and nearly 25,000 posts in less than FOUR MONTHS, and choose to support it with (see above) additional knowledge, discounts, etc.

The shocking truth is that, as Bilko said, "we have noticed at least one dealer try to disassociate himself from our forum as he felt our members expected special consideration." Perhaps that dealer feels more independent than he should. There will always be more fish in the sea. I'm certain that many dealers are glad that Pachitalk is here. I'm also certain that others wish we'd go away.

Some dealers recognize this forum as their first line of technical support and information. That was one of the items that Arby mentioned all dealers must provide. Since they recognize this place as a means to relieve some of their support burden, they provide us with more information, support, and yes... discounts.

We thank them... and continue to share our knowledge and opinions.
__________________
logicprobe
論理調査

"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"
The above is my personal opinion, and not necessarily the opinion of this forum.
See my current machine list HERE

[flyingtheflagonline]

I've given this matter a lot of thought, especially after having purchased/won over 80 machines in the past few months. But I'd like to hear what other members think.

One of the main things I've noticed that has really begun to get on my nerves is the paint jobs that are common to almost every single vendor/seller except those that offer lamination as an option. The paint looks great when the machine first arrives, but in no time gray areas appear simply from touching the paint or wiping it with a soft cloth. To me, this is absurd and totally unacceptable. And it doesn't matter whether it's from a premium vendor or not. This has happened on all 4 machines from Big Bear, all 10 machines from Milt, every machine from Pachislott777, etc. B/F and I spent the past few weeks repainting every single machine. It's both frustrating and amazing to us that no one else seems to notice or complain about this.

A more general issue is: Since these machines are almost always bought sight unseeen, it depends on the seller to disclose the true condition of the machines. In that regard, Big Bear has been the most upfront with regard to his scratch and dent machines. He includes photos that let you actually see exactly how each machine looks. Milt has photos with descriptions of his scratch and dents, but the photos aren't really that clear or close up enough to allow you to see what's what. I think what's beginning to bug me is the feeling that many vendors palm off their scratch and dent machines without really listing them as such. For example, we got a Machine Gun Santa with 5 12" long diagonal scratches right across the reel glass that you could feel with your fingernail and see from across the room that somehow eluded the descripiton of that particular machine. To me, that type of situation goes way beyond the usual "wear and tear" that these machines go through; to me, that machine qualified as a scratch and dent, and should have been listed as such, but it was not.

The same goes for significant overspray of black paint. B/F and I have spent hours cleaning up black dots/overspray from one of the more "premier" vendors mentioned here on this site frequently. Again, that to my way of thinking is unacceptable. We've also gotten machines with very major scratches on the chrome, dirty reels and/or reels with noticeable dimples/holes, burnt out lights upon delivery, broken wires, non-operational coin slots, etc. To a certain extent, I understand and accept the fact that these machines are used and are not in perfect condtion. However, since most of these machines are described as refurbished to the best condtion that they can be in, when I can get a machine to a significantly better level than when it arrived, that says to me that that machine had NOT been adequately refurbished. I do not expect perfect machines; I do expect machines to be as reconditioned as they can be. And to repeat, as far as I'm concerned, the fact that these machines are shipped out sight unseen, and are expensive to return, puts the sellers at a distinct advantage, and I believe that some of them take advantage of that imbalance.

:questionm Have you bought machines of heaven777 on ebay, if so what are they like?
I am investing in 40 machines in the next month and was hoping someone can give me names of the BEST Supplier in the UK:questionm
PS THANKS IN ADVANCE and all the Best to you all, From your NEWEST MEMBER

[Sid]

:questionm Have you bought machines of heaven777 on ebay, if so what are they like?
I am investing in 40 machines in the next month and was hoping someone can give me names of the BEST Supplier in the UK:questionm
PS THANKS IN ADVANCE and all the Best to you all, From your NEWEST MEMBER

Firstly Welcome to Pachitalk!!!

As for 777heaven in the UK a lot of our members have purchased from him. he is also a member of the board..

I too have purchased a Pachislo machine from Steve.. (777heaven) and i was very happy with the quality of the machine his helpfulness and the service.

as for dealers in the Uk... there are 2 that i know of

Steve (777heaven) or his website
www.pachisloandpachinko.com

and there is also Nik at Just pachinkos at www.pachinkos.co.uk
Nik is also a member of the board and has a following here as well.

good luck with getting your machines... its a fun hobbie



and happy newyear

Sid

[Mike]

:questionm Have you bought machines of heaven777 on ebay, if so what are they like?
I am investing in 40 machines in the next month and was hoping someone can give me names of the BEST Supplier in the UK:questionm
PS THANKS IN ADVANCE and all the Best to you all, From your NEWEST MEMBER

I've bought two machines from 777 Heaven now, one Pachinko and one Pachislo. I was very pleased with Steve's service and prices. I've not bought fron Nik, but as Sid said, he's also a member here and seems a nice chap from what I've read of his posts. Good luck (I wish I had the space and money to get 40 machines straight off - how will you ever decide??! Lord knows it took me long enough just to decide on two machines!)