Uh-Oh On The E*Bay Seller!

[logicprobe]

My suggestion is, if you have not already paid him or purchased anything from him, wait until he is reinstated. He shouldn't mind, and should understand, your apprehensions.

One of my questions previously was if he was willing to wait for payment BEYOND the 5 days he stated, due to the circumstances that we were seeing.
I never got a reply.

Once I saw orders being fulfilled for members here, I sent him an email thanking him for coming through for our members, and that I hope that things just got off on the wrong foot.

I asked if he was willing to continue the trasaction now (at 8 days, rather than his requested 5), that I too was willing... if he had more of that machine in stock.

He said that he would be willing to do that... and I tried to issue payment.

But I could not continue. Going through eBay OR PayPal, I'm told that the account can not accept payment. Perhaps the PayPal account has also been frozen?

I let him know what happened, and waiting again for a reply.

[Dadof4]

Still waiting for my Sonic Machine... I have e-mailed twice with no answer.
Scott please contact me with a tracking number so I can be home to sign for it.

Reading that other folks have got their machines only adds to the suspense.

[vespacar]

Popular, yes, but as a regular eBay buyer, I don't buy it for a second. Holding back feedback is an underhanded tactic in my opinion.
If a buyer pays on time and the payment is correct then his/her side of the transaction has been completed. At that point, and no later, that person should get positive feedback.
Holding back feedback is a blackmail tactic - if something goes very wrong with the shipment, if it was badly packed, things missing (as in my case with my first pachinko), the buyer is going to be hesitant to leave neutral or even negative feedback regardless of whether the seller deserves it or not because they will fear for their own feedback. If the buyer went through with his part, this is grossly unfair.
I see Arby has a message about it in his auctions and I applaud him for that. That, almost more than anything else, shows me that he has full confidence in pleasing the customer and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him.
Be fair to the buyers.

I agree, I'am still waiting for feedback from a seller that I bought from a month ago, thats after leaving feedback, paying and after getting the product!

Cheers,
James

[cwstnsko]

This is probably a whole different thread, but.....

.... If I leave the buyer positive feedback right away, it takes away all of my power. .....

That's what more and more sellers seem to be focused on lately... holding all of the power throughout the entire transaction. All hail the powerful seller Hang on to your power, all of the buyers are out to get you! How could a seller defend their integrity if they are leaving retaliatory feedbacks against buyers who did nothing wrong?

As my own little way of documenting of this behavior, when I leave feedback for a seller that is withholding feedback to retain their power, I note it right in the feedback (+,- or neutral). If my comments are brief, I start with "Seller witholding feedback...." If I have more to say, I abbreviate it "SWF - ...." This way other buyers who check feedback at least know that they should not expect feedback, and my true thoughts may be held hostage to the threat of a negative feedback.

The feedback system was originally intended to be a balance of power. Since it is the Seller and not the Buyer who pays Ebays paychecks, The policies will likely always be biased in favor of the seller.

[Tulsa]

I abbreviate it "SWF"

Are you sure they don't think you're a single white female?

[cwstnsko]

It's very possible. AFAIK I haven't recieved any interesting propositions based on my feedback.

[jwegger]

When I sell something to a buyer, I try my hardest to leave feedback ASAP after I get payment usually within 24 hours sometimes much less. I try and resolve any issue with my customers and make them happy but sometimes you just can't and even if you don't leave them feedback until after they leave yours, the buyer can still leave you a negative. If both parties won't leave feedback until after the other one does no one gets feedback. The feedback system is imperfect but it's the only thing we have and we have to live with it. As the seller, i'll leave feedback when I'm happy with the transaction. For me that's when I get paid.

[ocpachinko]

The one thing that strikes me here is that giving a negative to a buyer isn't likely to be effective "retaliation"; if you don't sell on the Bay negs don't hurt unless that's all you have, since eBay lets you bid anyway (and I say this as a buyer with perfect feedback). Giving the positive when the money's in hand lets a seller give a great "thank you" message, which may tend to help if there's a delivery (or other) snafu.

There will always be bad buyers; they'll neg regardless of the feedback.

There will always be bad sellers; but you judge based on the percentage. I remember once I thought even a single neg was bad for a seller, but as more newbies use eBay a few negs (among hundreds of positives) just show that a seller is willing to do business with all comers.

That said, I don't know how Arby manages feedback perfection (with so many transactions)...oh yes I do, since he has explained it here!

Still, I bet perfection has come at a cost that has occasionally been difficult to bear.

BTW, the fact that eBay discontinues my feedback capability when they suspend an account is ridiculous. As long as the transactions are able to be completed feedback should be allowed, and the fact it isn't is the number one most annoying thing I've learned about the Bay throughout this process. It irks me that I can't give (or receive) credit where due, and of course it concerns others that they can't do the opposite if they needed to. eBay arbitrarily suspends someone and they can't clear your name by delivering what you've promised. I got this idiotic form email, finally, from eBay (remember earlier in the saga I asked them why Scott was suspended?)

Here, for your amusement, is the beginning of the letter (italics added):

Thank you for contacting SafeHarbor with your report. My name is Tithya, a Fraud Department Specialist and
your concerns are important to me and I am happy to be able to assist
you at this time. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

I have personally reviewed your report and found that appropriate action
has been taken in this matter in accordance with our policies. At this
time, I can inform you that the seller you reported is currently not a
registered eBay user.

I am sorry we did not tell you that the seller was getting suspended. It
is not our policy to reveal the details of a users account to anyone.
Once a membership is cancelled or suspended, the user is unable to bid,
sell, or exchange feedback on the eBay site. Just because they are no
longer a registered member does not mean they are not obligated to
complete the transaction. They are still held under a binding contract
to honor the sale. Due to privacy concerns, I am not at liberty to
discuss specific details of any action taken. I hope you understand this
position and that it assures you that your personal account history will
always remain private.

How's that? Four days for a no-content machine-generated reply. Would any sane person want to sell on eBay? To cover eBay's liability concerns over improper suspensions they simply kill the seller and let the rumors fly! Finally, I had asked my original question to eBay on 12/9/2005 9:59; auto response received was:

Your question is very important to us and will be treated with our full
attention. We understand the need to get your question answered quickly,
and in most circumstances we do so within 24 to 36 hours. However, there
may be times when it will take up to 72 hours for you to receive a
response.

My "response" was received at 12/13/2005 9:42. You do the math.

At least I have a new verb for evasion...Tithya. Stop Tithyaing me!

I'm an eBay buyer. I've never sold a thing on eBay. Now I'm starting to understand why. Rant over.

[arbonnebabe]

Arbonnebabe back,
I guess most of you disagree with me. Just so you know, I have never left a negative feedback. I only came close once and that was for non-pymt, on the very 1st item I sold!

I can understand your point about leaving feedback once the buyer has paid. I keep in constant contact with my buyers. I thank them for their purchase and payment, let them know I am shipping it the next business day, give them the tracking number and scheduled date of delivery and follow up with them whenever necessary. I let my customers know how I handle feedback and it gives me more of an opportunity to give them a more personalized feedback, too!

I did say that it takes away all of my power if I leave feedback too soon, but I warn buyers against the same. If I have a newbie to Ebay, I send them a couple of paragraphs I came up with introducing them to Ebay and telling them a little bit about it. I let them know that they can contact me anytime during or after the transaction with any questions.

I probably said the wrong thing when I said that " It takes away all of my power," because I don't really feel that way as a seller. I do feel that way about buyers who leave feedback too soon. Again, as a buyer, I have been burned a few times myself.

As a seller(and buyer), I do have a 100% feedback rating and I don't think that any of my customers mind the way I handle their transactions. I give alot of personalized service and you can read some of my comments and see that! As far as no one ever leaving feedbacks because everyone waits: I have only had about 10 customers NOT leave feedback for me. I think it is because I have told them what to expect and that I always intend on leaving them very positive feedback once the transaction is over.

I do see your point about payment and I will think about what you all are saying, but up until this point I have felt strongly about the way I have done things. I am open minded though, but I do like leaving personalized feedbacks for some people and I would miss that if all I put was, "Great Buyer, Instant Pymt, Will sell to again anytime, Thank you!", on every transaction.

Your right, selling on Ebay is not an easy thing to do! I do it for several reasons, one which I will not go into right now.
But I love my customers, hearing their stories, and interacting with them from start to finish. Not every customer is like that. Some I never hear from, except in my feedback, but it just makes my day when someone tells me that their child loved something they bought from me or some other kind of cool story. This is why I continue to sell on Ebay.

I will continue to read what everyone has to say and I will continue to think about what has already been said. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone by the way I handle my business. I have never intended to "blackmail" anyone. Thank you for all of your comments and I'll keep reading whenever I get the chance, which unfortunately is not every day.

Thanks for listening,
Arbonnebabe

[slotter]

Don't take it too personally, Arbonnebabe. People here are just stating opinions, etc. Sometimes feelings can get hurt, but the they are rarely meant against anyone in particular.

[arbonnebabe]

Thanks, Slotter! That helps, I do get upset easily.
Arbonnebabe

[luckydog]

I gave 3 negative feedbacks last week, why do people bid and decide they aren;t going to pay???

After several invoices and many unanswered emails I just got fed up with them wasting my time and money.

Listing fees lost and ebay makes it hard to get refund on final price fees.

But, you get some flakes no matter what you do

[vgc]

Arbonnebabe, I Totally Agree with the way you handle your Business. I do the same as well. There are too many bonehead buyers out there. I have had several people try and tell me they never received goods even after checking the delivery confirmation showing delivery. Newbies or Morons Just trying to get a freebie. Usually 0 Bidders or Bad feedback bidders. It is completely up to the Seller to conduct Business and He or She feels fit and it appears you know what you are doing. Mike : )

[Tulsa]

It's not the buyers responsibility to be happy with what is sent. It is the buyers responsibility to pay for the product. End of story! Once that has happened, sellers need to pony up the feedback. To hold it hostage, as happens, is purely the sign of a seller who is afraid of their own product and/or their own ability to deliver on the auction.

Arby and Milt are the case in point. They never hold the feedback hostage and deliver on the sale and have 100% satisfaction for their efforts. If you're selling on eBay and you feel the need to maintain "the power" of the feedback, you need to rethink you're offering or possibly stop altogether selling as you have no confidence in your product or ability to sell properly.

[dalto]

It's not the buyers responsibility to be happy with what is sent. It is the buyers responsibility to pay for the product. End of story! Once that has happened, sellers need to pony up the feedback. To hold it hostage, as happens, is purely the sign of a seller who is afraid of their own product and/or their own ability to deliver on the auction.

This assumes that the buyer is rational and honest. Which is unfortunately not always the case. When I used to sell on EBAY and left feedback immediately after receiving payment, I had buyers try to extort additional items or price concessions from me under the threat of leaving negative feedback. Since I had already left feedback there was no way for me to defend myself and I was left in a difficult situation.

[slotter]

When I sell, if the eBayer has good feedback, I will leave good feedback immediately. But, if the buyer is shaky or new, I might withhold feedback until things are all sorted out. I see no impelling reason to rush into leaving feedback right away until we all are satisfied. (And, I say that as both a buyer and seller. What's the rush?)

I have 1193 100% positive feedbacks and have been buying and selling on eBay since 1997, btw, so I'm not a newbie.

Also, just for information, I've bought and sold motorcycles, cars and trucks (several at $20K and more) and a lot of other big ticket items along with smaller items over the past eight years on eBay.

[vgc]

Hey where's everybodys eBay Logos ? Tulsa this is where we choose to disagree. I have been on eBay for quite some time and have noticed a rash of dirtbag bidders in the last year or so. Arby has been lucky in not having any morons mess with his feedback. Its probably Karma since he is such a good person. I am a good person myself but Arby is probably up for Sainthood. Mike : )

[Tulsa]

Member Profile: arbycoffee (2704)

Feedback Score: 2704

Positive Feedback: 100%

Members who left a positive: 2704

Members who left a negative: 0

All positive feedback received: 4630

Member Profile: demos777 (5944)

Feedback Score: 5944

Positive Feedback: 100%

Members who left a positive: 5944

Members who left a negative: 0

All positive feedback received: 8543


Member Profile: pachinko_pallace (2387)

Feedback Score: 2387

Positive Feedback: 100%

Members who left a positive: 2387

Members who left a negative: 0

All positive feedback received: 3191


Here's three sellers totaling 16,364 eBay sales. All 16,364 customer feedbacks were left when the customer paid, not after they received the customers feedback.

I wonder if they use special eBay dirtbag filtering software?

[Dogg Thang]

It's not the buyers responsibility to be happy with what is sent. It is the buyers responsibility to pay for the product. End of story!

Yep, that just sums it all up for me.

Arbonnebabe, I mean nothing personal by it - I have never bought from you and I'm sure you are a great person to deal with. I'm just talking of this concept of withholding feedback.

But, on this last page and from different people, I'm seeing "bonehead buyers", "dirtbag bidders", "morons" and "flakes" all describing customers. If this is how much respect you guys have for the people you sell to, no wonder you're afraid of negative feedback.

I see the opposite from sellers like Arby who, from what little I already know, makes it his business to please his customers and make sure they are as happy as they can be with their purchase. No withheld feedback and not one negative. Not one. Where are his "bonehead buyers" and "dirtbag bidders"?

[MrGneiss]

I don't sell on ebay anymore but when I did I always left feedback right after payment.

Member Profile: bandosaurus (3411)

Feedback Score: 3411

Positive Feedback: 100%

Members who left a positive: 3411

Members who left a negative: 0

All positive feedback received: 5797