Eleco reel LEDs fixed

[pmailley]

Found these, I wonder if they would work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-BRIGHT-SUPERFLUX-LEDs-3000mcd-WHITE-led-leds_W0QQitemZ7381284318QQcategoryZ14984QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
Paul

[websherpa]

Found these, I wonder if they would work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-BRIGHT-SUPERFLUX-LEDs-3000mcd-WHITE-led-leds_W0QQitemZ7381284318QQcategoryZ14984QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
Paul

I found 4000mcd to be too bright and the Superflux style is going to be hard to mount, but the viewing angle is correct. I think ~1000 - 2000 mcd is closer, but I don't have anything to test - it's hard to find white wide angle (cheap) - but I haven't looked very hard yet.

I'm going to try some 700mcd 120 degree 5mm round that I found for $1 a piece. Will let you know how they work when I receive my order.

[fronzdan]

The best I could find that are readily available, reasonably priced and bright enough are 1800 mcd's with a 60 degree viewing angle...less than a buck a piece at Digikey. I did see one's similar to 700 mcd with 120deg viewing angle, but I think those may be a bit too dim. The total brightness of the RGB's by kingbright is around twice that. Doubling them up is a possibility, since you have enough current to play with on the board and with the existing resistors.

I'm thinking 60deg may be ok though. You're talking two LED's per reel position about an inch or so apart, so horizontally, their beam will overlap on the reel. The reel itself is 1.5 to 2 inches from the LED. That's probably enough to do what they are supposed to do - backlight the translucent symbols on the reel for shooting and to light those symbols when they are stopped in one of the three positions. Other than that, the LEDSs really don't come into play that much. The front reel fluorescent bar lighting combined with the EL screen over the reels defeat most of the stray backlighting by the LEDs.

I'll have those LEDs and a few samples of others (brighter/narrower vs. dimmer/wider) on Wednesday. I'll also post results.

[Darren]

Thanks, Keep up the Great work.
I will have to buy some soon.

Cheers
Darren

[websherpa]

I have some of the 700 mcd 120 degree and 680 mcd 90 degree on order to test, but I think you're right 2000mcd would probably be about right, though I haven't found any with that angle yet. I judged the narrower ones by eye (and now my eyes hurt), but I wasn't certain if it was 60 degree so I will need to check. I just got the feeling we'd get a hot spot on the reel (two hot spots).

I have made contact with Kingbright US and they have offered to try to source the correct part for us (I have to send them some dead ones to test), though they are curious about the numbers we're talking about (I let them know that it's likely pittance small demand, but I'll chime in for some extras to spread around, just in case. I'll see if they can suggest a substitute white LED in its place, if not.)

[fronzdan]

Tell them there's a potential for buying 1,000,000 of these units per year. But we need some engineering samples to perform initial testing on. Oh ..about 360 will do.

[websherpa]

I have a couple suppliers trying to get me the alternative Kingbright RGB SURGV LEDs to pre-test before an order - in the process I discovered that I can get them a lot cheaper than what mouser charges - in quantity of course, I'd have to spend close to $750 to get the minimum quantity and price down by half... sheesh!

[fronzdan]

LOL...$750 in quantity!

Do I sense a Eleco reel repair shop opening up in Canada some time soon?

[websherpa]

If it's the right part and I would need to repair 90 or more boards (30 3 reel machines), then it might be worth my while to open shop (or re-sell the chips). I'll concentrate on matching the right LED first - I have two more possibilities here to test tonight or when I next get a chance.

[websherpa]

This weekend's update.

I still haven't received all of the LEDs I wanted to try, but I received some Agilent HLMP-FW00-JM000 5mm Flat Top White LED (680 mcd @ 20mA) - 90 degree viewing angle. I also wanted to see what would happen if I over-amped the Red & Green diodes on the original Kingbrights (blue balanced) a bit.

Here's the set-up (3 types on one reel board):
http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pachislo148.jpg
http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pachislo147.jpg

The top pair is the Kingbright AAF5060PBESEEVG (1600mcd @ 30mA/50mA), 100 degree viewing angle, with the two resistors modified as well (R1blue = 2k Ohm/~10mA, R2red/green = 510 Ohm/~36mA) - basically cutting back the Blue LED and pumping the Red/Green pair a little beyond their Max. Forward Current (30mA). This was to try to make the light more white. [I tried even less resistance on the R/G pair but could see the LEDs failing.] The result is closer to white light (slight blue tinge), but much less bright.

The issue here is that to create white at full luminance with this particular LED chip, the Red & Green diodes can't be tied in series as they are on these boards.

The middle is the same Kingbright's but using the original resistors (R1blue = 820 Ohm, R2red/green = 750 Ohm). The light is quite acceptable, illuminates evenly across the reel segment, is brighter than the set-up above, but is blue balanced in color and less bright than the original LEDs.

The bottom pair is the Agilent HLMP-FW00-JM000 5mm Flat Top White LED (680 mcd @ 20mA) - 90 degree viewing angle, soldered between pins 4 and 2 with the 750 Ohm resistance which gives 27mA (not quite full max current).

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pachislo157.jpg

Here's the three seen from the side of the reel (Agilient 2 lead LEDs on the left).

And here's from the front of the reel (far right reel is the experiment), you can just make out the oval light pattern of the Agilients (at the bottom) and how their light is hot towards the centre and falls off towards the bottom. And you can really make out how bad my other reel lights are now.

http://www.websherpa.ca/images/pachislo160.jpg

Conclusion: The Agilient 680mcd - 90 degree White LEDs are passible and bright enough (but not as bright as the originals), and they cast white light in an oval, not even across the entire reel cross section. However if you are looking for a quick fix, these can be had for around US$1.00 a piece. I have some 700mcd 120 degree White LEDs on order , and I suspect these will give similar results - possibly a more even illumination of the reel segment but not likely any brighter.

Trying to colour correct these particular Kingbrights does improve the colour balance towards white, but at the cost of some illumination and the expense and time to change the resistors.

All three of these solutions permit eye-shooting by "seeing" the six led spots through the Don Chan garment, though not as brightly as the original LEDs would.

If I wasn't hung up on the blue, I prefer the even illumination of the Kingbright alternative. I may try soldering in an entire reel of Agilients to see what that looks like, and an entire reel of Kingbrights.

So I'm still holding out for a simple, brighter, whiter solution, though the Agilients are, so far, the easiest, cheapest, whiter, solution.

[chaz70]

So when you are done and find the perfect solution, will we be able to send our LED boards to you for repair?

[websherpa]

It would be nice if I could offer a "swap board" solution to board members who don't like to solder/desolder, but depending on the parts to be used, the fix may be expensive. I was hoping finding the right replacement part would have been easier...

[Darren]

THANKS WAYNE, LET US ALL KNOW HOW YOU MAKE OUT

CHEERS
DARREN

[alstonj1]

from the picture posted id go with the white led's i really dont see much of a difference to support the added cost and less soldering is always a "good thing" also a buck a piece or 9.00 a machine is really the way to go but the real test or should i say the reel test would be to see the whole reel under the white leds to see how they appear by themselves in coverage. great job!!! excellent work ....

[noobie]

Well I just noticed the the rightmost reel on my Osau No Chugoku is starting to turn a bit yellow compared to the other two, so I may be in for this as well.

[fronzdan]

I think it's inevitable...all Eleco reel LEDs are going to die at some point. This must have been a nightmare for the techs who seviced them at the pachi parlors in Japan.

I went ahead and installed 1800mcd 60 deg LEDS all around because a) I was sick of seeing the weird light patterns as more than half of them on my Hanabi were bad in various positions and b) I already (wasted) spent the money on these thinking the angle was fine. It turns out they are perfectly bright enough, actually better in terms of brightness than the originals. But you see a bit more "hot-spotting" than Wayne's 90deg Agilent's have. It's not noticeable when the reel is stopped. It looks like the symbol is glowing with an aura around it..kind of a neat effect. But when they are spinning you do notice distinct circles of light as opposed to the whole reel being uniformly lit. While I'm waiting on Wayne to come up with the optimum LED replacement ....these are a blessing compared to the way they were before. Now they are bright, all working and much easier to shoot.

Incidentally, I also tried some small 540mcd LEDs with 100 degree angle, similar to Wayne's Agilents, but I doubled them up - two per LED position so they had double the brightness. These lit up the reel in the full area and at the correct brightness. But since they are two distinct, albeit small and close together LEDs, you can sort of make out two dots through the translucent areas of the reel symbols, but only as they spin. It sort of looks like a small vertical dash instead of a dot on the Hanabi machine.

The good thing is, there are a number of ways to go depending on what you prefer.

[websherpa]

I went ahead and installed 1800mcd 60 deg LEDS all around

I wonder if you sand the domes on these (as was suggeted to me elsewhere) whether you'd get a bit more even spread of the light (at sacrifice of their intensity).

Is the 1800mcd 60 deg LEDs the same as this: http://www.ledsupply.com/l1-0-ww5th50-1.html

[fronzdan]

That's close but these are cheaper and a bit wider angle...
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1756.pdf

Looking at the first column, the Fig numbers...go to the row for Fig 14. It's the White LED just above that row, part number LTW-2H7C5S. They are 96 cents in qty over 10. I'll try sanding a pair and see what that does. Should it just be enough to diffuse the lens? And should it just be the "top" or all around?

[websherpa]

I was lead to believe that you sand the top flat and clear, it's the convex lense that focusses the beam from the chip. It was suggested to drill a hole in a board as a jig to hold the led and once an optimum amount of "shave" was determined, you could then fix the height of the original led in the board and then sand down to the board face.

It does sound like a bit of work, doesn't it.

That's close but these are cheaper and a bit wider angle...
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1756.pdf

Looking at the first column, the Fig numbers...go to the row for Fig 14. It's the White LED just above that row, part number LTW-2H7C5S. They are 96 cents in qty over 10. I'll try sanding a pair and see what that does. Should it just be enough to diffuse the lens? And should it just be the "top" or all around?

[alstonj1]

sounds like lasex to me ...... you licensed to do that procedure doc ?????