homebrew autostop/credit add

[Zeron Stargate]

Everyone here has great input, so at least the fourm
is being used as a fourm but one thread that has not
been brought up is;

Why even bother with the auto credit option.
50 , 20, switches, unsed 1 or 2 credit button or
what ever else anyone can come up with.

We all know the IC's are out there; and a couple that work.

If an IC can control the number of credits
via a triggering device why not just elimante the
triggering device and have an IC just keep the
credit counter topped off by looping the IC.

I would never do such a thing but for those whom
unserstand 00101000100100 and IF THEN FOR NEXT
it is easy to phase loop a chip.

[electronrancher]

zeron - i like that approach. how about 3 credits every time you press the start switch?

[logicprobe]

ok logicprobe - let me pose a question. what happens if the machine has 20 credits and a user accidentally triggers another 50? does it give a CP fault since it knows the coin rejector will activate after 50, yet the chip says tokens are still streaming in!

The chips that are available to do this now don't cause errors... at least not in the machines I've used them in.

I guess you could also use that coin rejector signal to disable the pulses, too. When it's filled, inhibit the pulses. Lower that voltage, and use it for something like an interrupt.

I will say this much... what you're looking to do is already available. Auto-credit is part of at least one auto-stop chip. We've mentioned before that all a person needs to do is simply NOT USE the auto-stop if they don't like it! That's what I do with the chips I have now.

The advantage to this thread (at least how I saw it start) was to be able to have open source CODE to do this. Some may want to incorporate that code into other PIC pachislo projects. Like Zeron said, "for those whom unserstand 00101000100100", it's easy enough. But how many here know that's 0xA24?

For a project for self-entertainment... or to contribute code to the possibility of a larger program... this idea is great. But, from past experience with this, I can tell you it's going to be hard to beat the price of chips that are already available, that can already do the job.

[Zeron Stargate]

The chips that are available to do this now don't cause errors... at least not in the machines I've used them in.

I guess you could also use that coin rejector signal to disable the pulses, too. When it's filled, inhibit the pulses. Lower that voltage, and use it for something like an interrupt.

I will say this much... what you're looking to do is already available. Auto-credit is part of at least one auto-stop chip. We've mentioned before that all a person needs to do is simply NOT USE the auto-stop if they don't like it! That's what I do with the chips I have now.

The advantage to this thread (at least how I saw it start) was to be able to have open source CODE to do this. Some may want to incorporate that code into other PIC pachislo projects. Like Zeron said, "for those whom unserstand 00101000100100", it's easy enough. But how many here know that's 0xA24?

For a project for self-entertainment... or to contribute code to the possibility of a larger program... this idea is great. But, from past experience with this, I can tell you it's going to be hard to beat the price of chips that are already available, that can already do the job.

My sentiments too.... what's out there works anything eles
is then becoming a personal mod....NEXT SUBJECT PLEASE
AUDIO MODS .... opps shhhhhh not yet..

[dattia]

Gee Logicprobe...if I am ever on Millionaire, will you be my Phone-a-Friend???

[alstonj1]

all i can say is if everyone thought that way we'd all be driving model "t" with or with out the crank .........the idea is to inspire creation even if its been done before you might just find a new way of getting there with some new tricks on the side that got missed the first time.......

[pachislousa]

What you really need to do is sample the line state (either high or low), and use that as a reference. Then, you simply pulse the opposite to trigger credits. Most coin rails are 5v, so they interface with pic chip fine, although a few may be 12v or higher.

The machines don't error when you try to insert more than 50 credits. The extra pulses merely get 'lost'. When 50 (53) credits are inserted, the machine automatically releases the electromagnet on the coin mech, allowing extra coins to fall through to the front collection tray. But, you can probably see this in the code I sent

[electronrancher]

That's right - once the machine reaches 50 credits (or 53 including max bet) it simply ignores additional pulses.

OK, well here it is - first beta of the PachiMod homebrew modchip. At the moment, it only supports credit add. I am using a PIC16F84 since that's what I had in the junkbox. Maybe this weekend I'll go get some 12F508's since they have an internal oscillator.

Ok here's the theory. Port A is used to watch the bet 1 and bet 2 lines, and port B is used to generate the credit add pulses. Port B actually drives two small npn transistors, and they pull the sensor lines low. This will work on any voltage normally high coin sensor (with 2 lines) regardless of voltage. For example, my rodeo uses 12v on the sensor. If I directly connected a pic powered by 5v, the 12v lines would be clamped to 5.7v by some internal junctions and run about 20mA through the substrate of the chip, gradually killing the poor pic or causing LATCHUP - hehe you'd love latchup.

Anyway, don't connect a 5v pic to a 12v line is the short story. The safe way to do it is to buy a 2n2222 for 3 cents (2n3904 or actually any 30v npn is probably fine). This guy can pull down anything you want.

Check the schematic for all the details. I found the bet 1 & bet 2 lines were also 12v, active low (normally high) so they are read through a resistor divider. Last part of the puzzle is a clock chip, or you can use the 16F84's RC oscillator, but it's a pain.

Like I said - this release is beta. It works flawlessly but is by no means final. Just a way for the weekend warriors to have a little fun examining the source code and fooling around with their pachi's.

Last but not least - commercialism. I severely apologize to any of the chip sellers out there if they don't like the free code circulating around. However, I learned the same way you did - by studying the machine - and like you, I have the choice to do whatever I want with the knowledge. If you're upset, please PM me and I won't release competitive features (random stop, etc) in order to avoid competition or lost sales. HOWEVER - if anyone gets the bright idea that they should take free code and try to sell $5 chips you are guaranteed I will stop any & all development and you will be labelled a douchebag by the community. So let's try to keep it legit.

That's all for now - enjoy!

[logicprobe]

Very nice!
Thanks!

(And glad to see you passed by my "official disclaimer" that it's already been done. Now this lets tinkerers like us have fun, too!)

Let's see...
2222's, 3904's... even the 16f84's I got. (Gotta love Microchip's freebies!)
Any thoughts on the 2Mhz clock? Whatcha using in your prototype?

Time to play... that's what I need to find now!
I think I put it around here someplace!

[gork]

Thanks for this electronrancher! I do have one question that perhaps you had already thought about. It seems you just test the inputs without doing any debouncing. While the immediate call to add credits (and enter into a delay before further button presses are looked for) would make this a non issue during your initial testing, I can see that if you hook this circut up to hundreds of machines and run it for hundreds or thousands of hours of play, you'll inevitably get some false triggers (not that that would matter terribly either)

Since we are generally dealing with used machines here and potentially dirty or otherwise old/smoke ravaged switches, IMO it would be best to debounce the input buttons a little bit at least... I guess it's just a 'better safe than sorry' approach anyway...

[electronrancher]

thanks for the thanks fellas!

as for the clock - really, I think you could use whatever you have handy. I had a 2MHz no-name oscillator chip, but the timer routine can be tuned for whatever osc or crystal you have handy, in fact the adjustment line has notes for 1MHz, 2MHz, 4MHz.

If you don't have an XTAL or osc handy, you can use the RC oscillator. Small cap (maybe 10pf-22pf) on OSC1, and a resistor from OSC1 to Vdd - say 30-60kOhm? Set the config to RC mode, and watch for the instruction clock on OSC2 (OSC1/4). Mine took a little tweaking of the resistor, but the first rev used this just fine. The problems with this are:
1) if you touch the pin or put a scope on OSC1 the frequency may change.
2) if two different machines have different 5v rails, the frequency will change.
But if you don't mind tweaking it's doable. In fact, the very very first rev I made used NO cap - just a 60k from OSC1 to Vdd and let the 5p pin capacitance do the work. This was a real piece of junk through, so it didn't last long.


Next - as for your question, Gork, I do have a 50ms delay at the end of the dispatcher loop that will act as debounce for single-shot events. However, it also takes about 40 or 50ms to do a credit with 80ms delay between credits, so for the three-credit shot you shouldn't have any bounce problems. If you have a really cool xor debounce or something, post it up here and we can integrate it.

That brings up a good note. If anyone has add-ons, let's try to integrate them all to make one master souce code instead of many independent versions. This chip was assembled using MPASM 7.21, but is probably fine to build with any old assembler.

[gork]

I would be wary of posting code that I had not tested. I don't have a programmer or anything to assist with this development ATM. I could probably come up with something but it will take me a while. If I come up with something, I'll let you know. My primary concern for debouncing inputs would not be to accidentally have them double-trigger but to ensure that a button really is down before triggering the first time. If you take 100 million samples from a horribly dirty and worn switch that is being jostled and vibrated, I could see that it might trigger falsely if you only rely on one sample to detect the press. Like I said before; probably not a problem at all in normal use

[electronrancher]

yeah that's true. for now it's good enough for beta testing. later, maybe long keypresses will enter different modes, etc so I think you have the right idea..

BTW - if you want to code without a burner, MPASM allows you to step line by line though your code. It also has a logic analyzer to watch what the I/O's are doing. I really only burn to PIC when I feel the code is finished, to tell the truth. (Man it must take 12 seconds to erase and burn a PIC - 12 precious seconds, who can waste that much time?!?)

[autoslot]

"Last but not least - commercialism. I severely apologize to any of the chip sellers out there if they don't like the free code circulating around..."

Well, I'm one of the chip sellers and I have no problem whatsoever about you developing and releasing free code! I believe competition is good!

Anything you can do to make Pachislos more enjoyable is OK with me!

Vince

[electronrancher]

Thanks Vince - I'm glad you're in support. Like I mentioned, the point of PachiMod is not to compete, just to have a forum for letting people mess around with different functions in their Pachi.

[logicprobe]

"Last but not least - commercialism. I severely apologize to any of the chip sellers out there if they don't like the free code circulating around..."

Well, I'm one of the chip sellers and I have no problem whatsoever about you developing and releasing free code! I believe competition is good!

Anything you can do to make Pachislos more enjoyable is OK with me!

Vince

VERY cool!!!

[electronrancher]

oh don't think this thread is dead yet, fellas! it's been busy times lately, but i just got a chance to build up some more open-source code to do the reel stopping for those who want that sort of thing (like me!). i just thought of some more good ideas for the chip, so i'm going to make some small revisions and you can expect new code within a day or so..!

[azlew]

Sorry but I kinda don't get it as far as the autostop goes. I guess it's because the Pachislos I have now have required sequences of reels to be stopped during bonus rounds. But there may be other reasons with playing Pachislos not to have the reels autostop like the US slots do :

Rupan what are your thoughts on autostops being added as far as the reach patterns that need to be hit before the possibility of a bonus round hit (ie 3 7's etc.)?

I do understand the advantage of the credit mod tho

[rupan777]

Sorry but I kinda don't get it as far as the autostop goes. I guess it's because the Pachislos I have now have required sequences of reels to be stopped during bonus rounds. But there may be other reasons with playing Pachislos not to have the reels autostop like the US slots do :

Rupan what are your thoughts on autostops being added as far as the reach patterns that need to be hit before the possibility of a bonus round hit (ie 3 7's etc.)?

I do understand the advantage of the credit mod tho

From a gameplay standpoint, autostop mods would only be relevant (in the technical sense) for certain types of machines--those that "assist" the players with set bonus hits, etc. For a more skill-oriented machine like, say, Fist of the North Star, autostop would do nothing as it requires a certain sequence of stops to see events occur.

Some parlors have auto-stop modded machines in front of their doors to sort of "advertise" the parlor itself. Of course, if you just want to show off your machine too then I could see that being a worthwhile investment.

[arbycoffee]

just like in a bonus rounds, after it credits 50 the rest come out as tokens

ok logicprobe - let me pose a question. what happens if the machine has 20 credits and a user accidentally triggers another 50? does it give a CP fault since it knows the coin rejector will activate after 50, yet the chip says tokens are still streaming in!

that's the only reason i have smaller options, really. for the case where you don't need a full 50.