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Thread: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    I have had this machine for some time and itís always worked.

    Now suddenly it will credit and start spinning the reels but none of the three buttons to stop work. Eventually the game will time out and the reels will stop.

    So far I have tried a reset which worked fine. Also checked for 5VDC at the optical switches at the skill stop and there is power there.

    Iím thinking a circuit issue? Does anyone know what could be wrong? Capacitor somewhere on one of the boards?

    Thanks in advance for any help!!
    óWill

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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Check the fuse on the stop board which is usually located on the upper right side of the cabinet interior. Best to pull out the fuse and check with a multimeter as they can look alright even when blown. Sometimes certain parts go bad on the same circuit board.

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    Pachi Puro Peteybob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Check the fuse on the stop board which is usually located on the upper right side of the cabinet interior. Best to pull out the fuse and check with a multimeter as they can look alright even when blown. Sometimes certain parts go bad on the same circuit board.

    Take a look at this: http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/show...oard+capacitor

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Thanks I found and removed the board. The fuse is in tact and all the capacitors look ok (this doesn’t mean much but nothing is burnt looking). I also played the game with the board out and nothing changed.

    FYI The board is number S1655aP1.

    What should the next step be?

    Thanks,
    —Will

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    It is normally the stop board that goes bad. But most of the time the fuse blows.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Thanks Ian I checked the fuse via continuity and it’s still good.

    So there’s no way to tell what else is bad on the board without pulling all the discrete components and testing them?

    No troubleshooting procedure to isolate it? I’m used to working on complex systems but usually the shop manuals have troubleshooting flow charts and test points to narrow down the issue. Component level repair doesn’t scare me but having to pull everything individually does!

    —Will

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    I have a Bellco Double Chance (circa 2000) that I'm currently trying to resurrect. It uses the same stop board. If you need me to check voltages and/or determine how the stop board works on this unit, I can probably do so. I can confirm that if you disconnect the stop board ribbon cable, the reels do not stop! so that is normal behavior when disconnected.

    My remaining issue on my machine is digislo does not work (or sound or reel lights or anything else connected to the auxiliary circuit board on the left side of the cabinet. If you're a techie, maybe we can help each other by sharing what 'good signals' are supposed to look like Me first, I'll have a look at my stop board and try to figure it out.

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    I did a quick signal trace for the stop buttons and this is what I found. Stop buttons are wired to the last three pins of the ribbon cable. Each signal goes through a resistor and then up to the first three inverters of the 74HC14 (pins 1,3,5) The output of the inverters (pins 2,4,6) go to inputs of the TD62503 signal driver. The signal driver output pins 4,5,6 then return to the ribbon cable to eventually reach the main circuit board input opto-isolators in bank PC5.

    That's the only components that appear to relate to the stop buttons as far as I can tell. I would suggest you test the circuit path I outlined. You can do it using a multi-meter. Voltages are either +5 volts (ish) or 0 volts. I'll try to attach a crude diagram of the circuit path.

    Cheers.
    stopboard.png

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    This is amazing ... thanks!

    I checked the circuit out and I’ve got an issue somewhere upstream of the stop board.

    Only 500mv off the ribbon at the resistor/capacitor. I’m assuming this is low enough to not trigger the inverter and this low voltage signal is lost after that point.

    Also - there is no state change from that 500mv when any button is pressed.

    I guess the next step is to trace back from those flex pins and see where they go?

    ————

    As for trading - I’m game. Where is the aux board you’re talking about? My main board is in the back of the cabinet and a ribbon cable goes to the door. So we may differ there? I have no boards in the left side of the cabinet.

    —Will

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanticom View Post
    I did a quick signal trace for the stop buttons and this is what I found. Stop buttons are wired to the last three pins of the ribbon cable. Each signal goes through a resistor and then up to the first three inverters of the 74HC14 (pins 1,3,5) The output of the inverters (pins 2,4,6) go to inputs of the TD62503 signal driver. The signal driver output pins 4,5,6 then return to the ribbon cable to eventually reach the main circuit board input opto-isolators in bank PC5.

    That's the only components that appear to relate to the stop buttons as far as I can tell. I would suggest you test the circuit path I outlined. You can do it using a multi-meter. Voltages are either +5 volts (ish) or 0 volts. I'll try to attach a crude diagram of the circuit path.

    Cheers.
    stopboard.png

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Will,

    Just to confirm it looks good at the stop buttons themselves, I've metered mine. The stop button photo-interrupters take three leads. Red (+5v), Black (0v - ground) and White (0v normal, 3.6v when button pressed - signal). Does yours test the same? Also, you may want to confirm it's not a loose connection on the ribbon cable or board connector - since you said it was working and then all just stopped working.

    I'll trace the circuit through the main circuit board later today and share my findings.

    Have a great day!
    IMG_7504.JPGIMG_7506.JPG

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    Fever Hunter AnythingObscure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    This is amazing ... thanks!


    —Will
    I agree -- WOW, what incredibly detailed 'techie-info'?!! Y'all are making this all sound so simple, even to the point that *I* think I'm understanding as I'm following along...??!!!

    [oh and BTW Willbird -- are you the same Willbird from PA that I kinda know already on the HighwayDivides traffic signal enthusiast's forum?? I'm BigTbird over there, and never knew you had a Pachislo in your collections too? Pics PLEASE?!!]
    Tim
    "I didn't do it -- nobody saw me do it -- there's no way you can prove anything!" --Bart Simpson

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    I'm learning something new about this machine every day! Here's what I discovered by tracing the full signal path through my machine.

    The output signal from each stop button travels to the main circuit board via the wide ribbon cable. From there, the signal is used to bias the base of a transistor (one for each stop button) which connects that transistor's collector to ground! The collector is connected to the second wide ribbon cable that eventually makes it's way to the stop board (via the stepper motor connector board atop the reels.)

    So where does that measured 5v potential I originally talked about come from???? The stop board! After closer inspection, I found that the stop board receives 24v on pin 1 of it's ribbon cable - which then travels through the fuse and a few resistors then makes its way to a 5v regulator (part number TA78L005AP) which supplies the TTL Logic 5v supply to the ICs and associated stop button circuits.

    Therefore, I would suggest you verify you have 24v at the fuse (so you know you have incoming power) and then verify that you do (or probably do not) have 5v coming from the regulator. The most convenient spot to test for that seems to be at the top of capacitor C5 (or pin 14 of ic U1, the hex inverter.)

    Let me know if you need me to provide/verify any other voltages.

    As for my machine, sorry to hear you don't have a second circuit board on the left side of your cabinet. The machine I'm troubleshooting seems to be somewhat of an anomaly. The second board controls sound, lights behind the reels and the digislo bonus display and lighting. I purchased the machine on the cheap as a project to exercise/improve my troubleshooting skills. It has not disappointed in that regard - LOL. On the bright side, my wife let me purchase some new test gear, so I'm a winner any way you look at it

    Hope this info helps you and others.

    IMG_7523.JPGIMG_7528.JPG

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Iíve got the proper 5 and ground. But at the center pin Iíve got 3.1v all the time. I pulled the cables going to the opti switches and still see the 3.1v.

    Something on the main board must have shorted/blown and is pulling up on those lines. Just to quickly test, I isolated the main board and removed stop board and any other plug in (light board, reels, coin hopper, and all three switches) so the only things powered and connected are the main board and the board with the buttons. Still have 3.1v

    My main board still has all the original foil and seals on it so Iíd hate to tear them open but I think thatís the likely next step...


    óWill

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanticom View Post
    Will,

    Just to confirm it looks good at the stop buttons themselves, I've metered mine. The stop button photo-interrupters take three leads. Red (+5v), Black (0v - ground) and White (0v normal, 3.6v when button pressed - signal). Does yours test the same? Also, you may want to confirm it's not a loose connection on the ribbon cable or board connector - since you said it was working and then all just stopped working.

    I'll trace the circuit through the main circuit board later today and share my findings.

    Have a great day!
    IMG_7504.JPGIMG_7506.JPG

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    24v Power supply into the stop board is good. 5v regulator is good.

    It seems based on your findings the fault seems to be with the transistors at the main board. But all 3 blown? Super odd... I’ll have to pull the main board to verify this.

    —Will

    Quote Originally Posted by atlanticom View Post
    I'm learning something new about this machine every day! Here's what I discovered by tracing the full signal path through my machine.

    The output signal from each stop button travels to the main circuit board via the wide ribbon cable. From there, the signal is used to bias the base of a transistor (one for each stop button) which connects that transistor's collector to ground! The collector is connected to the second wide ribbon cable that eventually makes it's way to the stop board (via the stepper motor connector board atop the reels.)

    So where does that measured 5v potential I originally talked about come from???? The stop board! After closer inspection, I found that the stop board receives 24v on pin 1 of it's ribbon cable - which then travels through the fuse and a few resistors then makes its way to a 5v regulator (part number TA78L005AP) which supplies the TTL Logic 5v supply to the ICs and associated stop button circuits.

    Therefore, I would suggest you verify you have 24v at the fuse (so you know you have incoming power) and then verify that you do (or probably do not) have 5v coming from the regulator. The most convenient spot to test for that seems to be at the top of capacitor C5 (or pin 14 of ic U1, the hex inverter.)

    Let me know if you need me to provide/verify any other voltages.

    As for my machine, sorry to hear you don't have a second circuit board on the left side of your cabinet. The machine I'm troubleshooting seems to be somewhat of an anomaly. The second board controls sound, lights behind the reels and the digislo bonus display and lighting. I purchased the machine on the cheap as a project to exercise/improve my troubleshooting skills. It has not disappointed in that regard - LOL. On the bright side, my wife let me purchase some new test gear, so I'm a winner any way you look at it

    Hope this info helps you and others.

    IMG_7523.JPGIMG_7528.JPG

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Same one Tim!

    Ive got one Pachislo and one pachinko machine. Honestly I prefer the pachinko...but it’s cool having something that shoots coins at you! (Or at least did...)

    —Will

    Quote Originally Posted by AnythingObscure View Post
    I agree -- WOW, what incredibly detailed 'techie-info'?!! Y'all are making this all sound so simple, even to the point that *I* think I'm understanding as I'm following along...??!!!

    [oh and BTW Willbird -- are you the same Willbird from PA that I kinda know already on the HighwayDivides traffic signal enthusiast's forum?? I'm BigTbird over there, and never knew you had a Pachislo in your collections too? Pics PLEASE?!!]

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Ok, so I pulled the main board. (RIP foil and serial tags)


    Mine is a bit more modern than yours but I Believe the same general principal applies. The signal line from each opti switch runs through a resistor into a transistor array (PA2003C) and the collectors run to the stop board. (Thereís also a ďsurge killerĒ pin on that package according to the spec sheet that Iím not sure what it does)


    But hereís where he circuit differs from yours. Also tied to each of the 3 input pins on the transistor array is a capacitor to ground and a second resistor to a 5V line on the board.


    Ive attached photos to hopefully show you what Iím looking at. Like I said, Iím experienced at working board level repairs but with the guidance of documented test procedures and troubleshooting documents. My circuit theory is almost non existent. If you have any idea whatís going on there let me know. My best assumption/guess is the pull up resistors are resulting in 3.1V on the inputs of the transistor but thatís where my theory is shaky. Is this by design or is it out of spec - should it be 5v? And then thereís the issue of all three opti switches not grounding that line when the buttons are pressed. Bad grounds? I believe those switches are some kind of optical transistors?


    Let me know what you think - and thanks again for working through this with me. Itís been fun (so far) and hopefully we can get it working again!


    óWill
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Tokie Owens Willbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Got a few projects running simultaneously hence the mess...

    óWill

    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Same one Tim!

    Ive got one Pachislo and one pachinko machine. Honestly I prefer the pachinko...but itís cool having something that shoots coins at you! (Or at least did...)

    óWill
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Fever Hunter AnythingObscure's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Got a few projects running simultaneously hence the mess...

    —Will
    What a WAY FUN 'gameroom' you've got there -- SO MANY cool things too beyond the pachi, the further I look into all the 'background stuff'...?!!
    Tim
    "I didn't do it -- nobody saw me do it -- there's no way you can prove anything!" --Bart Simpson

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    (Point 1 =>)The signal line from each opti switch runs through a resistor into a transistor array (PA2003C) and the collectors run to the stop board.


    (Point 2=>) tied to each of the 3 input pins on the transistor array is a capacitor to ground and a second resistor to a 5V line on the board.


    (Point 3=>)My best assumption/guess is the pull up resistors are resulting in 3.1V on the inputs of the transistor but that’s where my theory is shaky. Is this by design or is it out of spec - should it be 5v? And then there’s the issue of all three opti switches not grounding that line when the buttons are pressed. Bad grounds? I believe those switches are some kind of optical transistors?

    —Will
    RE Point 1 & Point 3: Based on what you said, it seems like the input side of the Darlington Sink Driver (PA2003) is being held high (I think 3.1v would probably be enough.) Since the sink driver is inverting (High input => low output) I would expect the related outputs of that driver array to be Low (essentially supplying ground) and thus keeping the stop board inputs in their 'button is already pushed' state (since it's supplying a 5v signal and waiting for it to be grounded to trigger a stop signal.) This assumption aligns with your previous voltage readings on your stop board. I also confirmed that I can start my machine with all three stop buttons pressed and it will allow me to bet and spin the reels. So, that scenario seems possible.

    Previously you mentioned with regard to voltages at the stop buttons: "But at the center pin I’ve got 3.1v all the time. I pulled the cables going to the opti switches and still see the 3.1v."

    I have similar readings on my machine (+5v, 3.5v, Ground) when the button is disconnected. Which also makes sense based on your discovery in Point 2 - That sounds like a pull up resistor setup on that input line to me. As you may recall, my readings with the stop button pressed was 0v (actually .055v) when the button was not pressed and 3.5v when I pressed it. So 3.1v all the time at the stop button sounds like a smoking gun to me.

    I ran a little test on my machine that you may want to try in order to confirm an issue with the stop buttons themselves. I removed one of my stop button connectors and placed a resistor between the ground (black) and signal (white) leads. I tried both a 220 ohm and a 630 ohm resistor, both worked fine... so anything in that ballpark will be perceived as a low signal. I bet and spun the reels. I then removed a leg of the test resistor for just a second (to simulate pushing the button) and the reel stopped. I then pushed the other stop buttons and they worked as expected. Please note: I originally tried simply shorting the signal lead to ground - my machine didn't like that. You definitely want to use a resistor for this test.

    Also, since you said that all three buttons are measuring 3.1v in their resting state, you may want to put a resistor across all three so you start in a 'buttons not pushed' state.

    Good luck! and let us know what you discover.
    IMG_7529.JPG

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    Tokie Owens atlanticom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bellco Golden Bell Credits And Plays but wont skill stop

    Just a little DI (delayed intelligence) update on using a jumper to simulate stop button action.

    When I originally tried shorting the stop button signal lead to ground last night, I just shorted it momentarily (because I wanted to minimize potential bad things happening), but in reality I caused an anomalous condition (simulating the button being pressed constantly - which the machine didn't like.) After thinking a little about it (and the normal ~0v measurement of the signal pin) it seemed appropriate for the signal pin to normally be shorted to ground, and then opened momentarily (so signal pin can go high) to simulate the button press.

    So today I tried my experiment again with simply placing a jumper across the ground and signal pins (no resistor required) and tested the button press simulation again by momentarily removing the jumper wire and then reconnecting it. It worked perfectly. So please disregard my prior note warning against shorting the signal lead to ground. The problem was with my execution of the test, not the grounding of the signal pin.

    Have a great day!

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