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Thread: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

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    Tokie Owens observing's Avatar
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    Default Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    As I mentioned in a previous thread, this is a Nishijin B Sophia (Super Deluxe, Crab theme). The left and right tulips are exhibiting a problem that presents itself like this:


    - Starting with the tulip closed, if I drop a ball (#1) into it, the tulip opens, but the ball doesn't result in a payout and it doesn't drop out of the machine.


    - The next ball (#2) closes the tulip, results in a payout, and the ball (#2) drops out of the machine through the normal exit. However, ball #1 remains in the machine.


    - The next ball (#3) opens the tulip, but the ball doesn't result in a payout and it doesn't drop out of the machine.


    - The next ball (#4) closes the tulip, results in a payout, and the ball (#4) drops out of the machine through the normal exit. However, ball #3 remains in the machine (along with ball #1).


    - And so on. The only way to retrieve the balls still in the machine was to use a method Moparformances described in another thread ("flip the machine upside down and tip it left to right a few times to get the balls heading the right direction...").


    It appears that when the tulip is closed, a ball entering it takes a path over the lever and out the side hole rather than through the prongs. When the tulip is open, the ball goes through the prongs. Should the ball always be going through the prongs?

    Any insights would be appreciated.

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    Kungishi Tink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    I can only think of 2 possibilities here.

    1. Outer tulips have been removed and replaced on the wrong sides. This would be an easy fix, remove tulip and check that they exit toward the center of the machine. Yes the first ball that opens them will travel down the inner tulip and out the back.

    2. Some machines have extra mechanics attached to the back board to open extra tulips. Something may be bound up inside blocking the free flow of that first (tulip opening) ball. This will require you to remove the lower half of the back to see where the problem lies.

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    Tokie Owens observing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    By looking inside the left tulip from the front, I can see that the exit hole is on the right and the pin is connected to the left side of the lever. The reverse is true of the right tulip, so that indicates to me that the tulips are in their proper places. I'll do a little more black-box testing, but I sense that pulling out nails and staples is in my future.

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    Kungishi CarlW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    I have seen plywood that is warped that creates a ball jam similar to what you are describing.

    Best bet is to pull the back off.

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    Blind Shooter velcrobomb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    It's not very difficult to remove a few things to get a better view of what you have inside. Like Tink said, if there are inner mechanics within the upper base (behind the jackpot module) that helps move the tulips together, then this thread might help.


    Do you have "The Book" yet? A guy named James King wrote it. It's worth getting because it's a full Model B teardown and buildup.

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    Tokie Owens observing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Different Tulip s , Different Problem

    An update with a happy ending. With "The Book" as my guide, I did indeed disassemble the machine down to the game logic.


    GameLogic.jpg

    For those who don't want to take the time to trace it out from the picture, the logic is as follows:


    - A ball entering the left tulip (if closed) will open the tulip, open the right tulip (if not already open), and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.
    - A ball entering the left tulip (if open) will close the tulip, open the right tulip (if not already open), and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.
    - A ball entering the right tulip (if closed) will open the tulip, open the left tulip (if not already open), and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.
    - A ball entering the right tulip (if open) will close the tulip, open the left tulip (if not already open), and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.
    - A ball entering the center tulip (if closed) will open the tulip and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.
    - A ball entering the center tulip (if open) will close the tulip and fall down to the jackpot seesaw.


    In this model, there are two holes above the center feature. The left one carries a ball (via a ramp) to the left tulip and the right one carries a ball (via another ramp) to the right tulip, where the logic proceeds as specified above. Two of the holes in the center feature mirror those holes and the third hole drops a ball into the center tulip. There are also two pockets on either side of the center tulip where balls enter and fall directly down to the jackpot seesaw.


    In the attached picture, I circled in yellow a bent pin on one of the tulips. I'm not sure whether it was done deliberately or as a result of wear and tear. Regardless, I straightened it out and ensured that the tulip behaved correctly afterward.


    After reassembling the machine, I verified that the gameplay follows the logic above and all balls leave the machine. I'm skeptical that the bent pin was aggravating the problem I originally described. I think it is more likely that balls were being trapped in the machine due to space between the game logic, the lower base, and the upper base. Removing a lot of staples and adding a lot of screws may have resulted in a tighter fit. Leveling the machine may also have improved things.

    Thanks, again, to all for your help and suggestions.

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