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Thread: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

  1. #61
    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Quote Originally Posted by samslack View Post
    volt amps and amps are 2 different measurements. that would definately underdrive your machine like Clam states.

    there is a formula to convert it. that transformer is only.48 amps like it says.

    I remember this from all my electronics engineering classes


    Single phase amps to VA calculation formula

    The apparent power S in volt-amps (VA) is equal to current I in amps (A), times the RMS voltage V in volts (V):
    S(VA) = I(A) × V(V)
    So volt-amps are equal to amps times volts:
    volt-amps = amps × volts
    or
    VA = A ⋅ V

    Example

    What is the apparent power in VA when the current is 12A and the voltage supply is 110V?
    Solution:
    S = 12A × 110V = 1320VA


    from here handy references

    if your curious about the science of it.

    https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/...amp-to-va.html





    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    But the input voltage and current are inconsequential. Yes that transformer is too small, but the .48 Amps is the input current, not output current. 40VA at 24VAC is about 1.664 Amps, yes, way short of the game's needs.

    24V and 240VA are the important numbers. 24VAC at 250VA is 10.4 amps. Go Big, or Go Home! 10 Amp minimum!

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  2. #62
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    There's been a bit of misinformation posted on this thread, with a little bit of confusion over the method of calculating VA ratings and the type of fuse needed. (I would have jumped on this earlier, but can't get through to pachitalk from my home ISP for the past week or so, so can only read/post when tethering from my phone).

    Just to confirm, transformer current ratings are always calculated on the OUTPUT voltage, anyone calculating the current rating from the line voltage (100V,110V,120V or 240V) should be ignored.

    You need a transformer that outputs 24V at 10A, which will be a 240VA transformer. The 250VA rating printed on your pachinko machine is the absolute maximum the pachinko will use, in reality it will be slightly less as the 250VA rating includes a bit extra for supplying the card reader interface. The one you posted from mpja looks perfectly adequate, connect the two blue wires to the pachinko and don't connect the yellow centre-tap wire but make sure you insulate it to make sure it doesn't short out on anything!


    For a replacement fuse you'll need a T15A 'anti-surge' or 'time-delay' fuse, do NOT get a 'fast acting' fuse, it won't cope with the switch on surge when the PSU capacitors charge up.

    It should be a 5x20mm fuse (Check the length of the fuse it should be 20mm or about 3/4" long). I'd buy a few, as if the machine has been plugged directly into a wall outlet without a transformer, you've probably blown the protection diode and the replacement fuse will blow instantly.

    From your pictures it looks like the protection diode is the small black component between F2 and SA2, though there might also be other protection components. When you're desoldering F2, lift one lead of this component, and measure it with a multimeter. It is designed to instantly go short circuit and blow the fuse if the input voltage is too high, hopefully protecting the other components in the power supply from being damaged by the over-voltage. While you have the metal base off the circuit board for soldering, take a couple of clear photos of both sides of the board. (if there is a more complicated fault on the PSU board these will be a big help for those of us who understand these things to identify potential failed components).

    The machine might work with the protection diode removed, but will have no surge protection. Ideally you should replace it with a 'transient voltage suppressor' diode (or TVS diode) this should be a bi-directional TVS diode rated at around 47-56V. There's a few other threads on pachitalk where this is discussed (search the forums for "transient diode"), I think I've posted part numbers in a couple of them.

    Fitting a correctly specified transformer and replacing the fuse and protection diode is usually enough to get a pachinko machine working again after having been damaged by plugging it into a line voltage socket without a transformer. If it still doesn't work after that, then there might be a few other components that need replacing.

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  4. #63
    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Thanks Dave.

    On a slight note on this. When I had Cutie Honey rated at 150va. When I was going to sell it. I took it out of the cabinet and got a new 150va transformer. But after about 15 minutes of play. The screen kept cutting out. I measured the output voltage from the transformer and it has dropped down to 18v. I replaced the transformer with a 160va one and no problems. Since then I have always used the next size up. Of course, that 150va transformer could have had a fault in the windings or just an inferior Chinese product.
    In the cabinet I use a 500va transformer to run 2 machines and 2 lifters and a 300va transformer to run 1 machine, 1 lifter and the data counters.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Blind Shooter JudgeRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    I think Dave has it right. It's the output you want. Input should simply match the volts of your house. And output volts has to match your machine. From there, you just need enough amps to keep it running. Mine only uses 5A but I guess this one uses more.

    I never even use the term voltamps. Sounds like it is the same as watts?

  6. #65
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRob View Post
    I never even use the term voltamps. Sounds like it is the same as watts?
    For DC supplies and resistive circuits they are the same. For AC circuits calculating the power used is more complicated as inductive or capacitive elements in the circuit cause the current drawn to be out of phase with the voltage supplied, so the actual power drawn from the supply is a constantly changing waveform and requires complicated equations to calculate.

    So you have two ways of expressing the power used, the actual power drawn is measured in Watts, or a simplified 'apparent power' which is just volts x amps or VA. The difference between these two numbers is known as the 'Power Factor' and is a ratio of the two values.

    DC supplies usually have their power ratings in Watts (as both Watts and VA will be the same), AC supplies such as transformers tend to be rated in VA (as it is usually the higher of the two values, so makes the transformer appear more powerful!).

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    Tokie Owens QuaTTro's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Thanks for all the comments. I’ve soldered in a new fuse and the 10A transformer linked above has been ordered. I’ll update you all when I try to turn it on next week.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    It’s working!!! Thanks for all the help. More info, videos and questions coming soon


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    Tokie Owens QuaTTro's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  13. #69
    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Another machine saved from being scrapped or broken up

    Well done.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Tokie Owens QuaTTro's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    Another machine saved from being scrapped or broken up

    Well done.
    Thanks! And thanks to this forum for all the advice. Definitely felt good to hear the machine start up the first time. Boy....it’s loud!


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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Cool Dave, thanks for the insight. Learn something new every day!

    (I would have jumped on this earlier, but can't get through to pachitalk from my home ISP for the past week or so, so can only read/post when tethering from my phone)
    I've had the exact same problem! IDK what the deal is. I was about to mess around with my router, but it sounds like something else is at play. I too now have to tether to my phone to get on the site... annoying. My ISP is Consolidated Communications.

  18. #72
    Scowlin' Jean Hornigold hanabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRob View Post
    Cool Dave, thanks for the insight. Learn something new every day!



    I've had the exact same problem! IDK what the deal is. I was about to mess around with my router, but it sounds like something else is at play. I too now have to tether to my phone to get on the site... annoying. My ISP is Consolidated Communications.
    if you PM me your ISP details I may be able to help



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  20. #73
    Sandwich Shooter AnythingObscure's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first modern pachinko machine Daito Twenty Four, issues

    "New guy" interrupting for just a quick moment to say THANKS to QuaTTro and everybody for this whole thread -- it has generally been SO edjumacational for me, who truly didn't know squat about pachinkos yet. No doubt if I'd have just found a machine with that cord on it I woulda also plugged it right into the wall and fried it too...?

    But anyways, this thread has sorta prompted several hours worth of various exploring other older ones in the pachinko sections (& etc) which has actually been *lots of fun* to do. And now, at least I'm *starting* to get an understanding of what a pachinko IS and how they work, should I ever actually happen to come across one of them too...?

    THANKS, Y'ALL!!

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