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Thread: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Angry Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    OK, I know that these motors from what I hear are almost impossible to find. Mine has finally progressed to pop E81 all the time. I know its the left motor. Honestly its prob gummed up with cigarette smoke lol.

    I have some sources to possibly get them.
    Special thanks to thrasherwr and his amazing disassembly video he made it easy and I am going to strip the cell this week when I have time.

    Im am curious from anyone who has searched before for these what roadblocks have you endured. Just asking because I am curious. If I have to I can throw my scope on these leads and get the voltages etc... I can not image these were made special just for this one machine. Usually its a std motor of some sort.

    I will know more details once I strip it. Wish me luck. Im giving my motor guy all the specs , Size, shaft size, mounting locations etc. I now officially hate E81 and E82

    Last edited by samslack; 02-25-2019 at 01:02 PM. Reason: removed bad text

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    Default Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Quote Originally Posted by samslack View Post
    OK, I know that these motors from what I hear are almost impossible to find. Mine has finally progressed to pop E81 all the time. I know its the left motor. Honestly its prob gummed up with cigarette smoke lol.

    I have some sources to possibly get them.
    Special thanks to thrasherwr and his amazing disassembly video he made it easy and I am going to strip the cell this week when I have time.

    Im am curious from anyone who has searched before for these what roadblocks have you endured. Just asking because I am curious. If I have to I can throw my scope on these leads and get the voltages etc... I can not image these were made special just for this one machine. Usually its a std motor of some sort.

    I will know more details once I strip it. Wish me luck. Im giving my motor guy all the specs , Size, shaft size, mounting locations etc. I now officially hate E81 and E82
    Yes. Mine were removed. Game works fine, Other than the fact that I get a lot more spins then I normally would because the Flipper’s helped divert the balls differently.

    I can’t find the post but if you search the forum or look at my posts I made one and copied some videos as well. I agree that thrashers video is one of the better breakdown videos I’ve seen. The other side effect is, when I boot up my machine it flashes white only in the beginning of the boot sequence and eventually goes back to its normal light show a few minutes after. I also used to get an error code intermittently (it’s in the post) and had to hard reset but that never happens anymore.

    If I was at a desktop I could easily show you. But you might have to do some forum digging.
    Calypso

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    i have your post with the mod. thats a good work around. i agree clicking is annoying but I am determined to find a source and i have some promising leads. i was curious what people tried when searching for replacements. did anyone find any but they are not the right fit? voltages unknown ? wrong connectors ? etc... it may save me some time on my search

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    Eye Shooter Calypso's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    So you are looking to turn them off while leaving them in place? Or want them to "turn on" when it senses play?

    Quote Originally Posted by samslack View Post
    i have your post with the mod. thats a good work around. i agree clicking is annoying but I am determined to find a source and i have some promising leads. i was curious what people tried when searching for replacements. did anyone find any but they are not the right fit? voltages unknown ? wrong connectors ? etc... it may save me some time on my search
    Calypso

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    i am looking to replace them with working motors. i have a possible source for them.

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    update. so successfully got them out to inspect them. they are not motors but pancake solenoids. there is a part num on the back of 1000 4nbaa but that means nothing unkess you know the mfg. I will document all specs with a micrometer and search for a source. wish me luck.20190228_123552.jpg

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    correction pancake servo its been a long day

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor UPDATE PROGRESS MADE

    OK so I was actually able to find ALL of the relevant info for these and even where to get them thanks to some help . However.... There is a catch. We just need a ton of $$$ and 4,998 more people that need them. lol yes this is bad news. The manufacturer states that they are special Stepper motors. with a 40 Degree movement 20 in either direction. They use +12 and -12V pulses to change their direction. Mine showed visible signs of rust on the back prob from humidity.

    They stated that they are not a standard motor Why Sankyo decided to pay a set up fee and special order them is beyond me. Would of made more sense to use a std readily available motor and made a gearing system to flip left and right but whatever.

    Min order qtys are 10k or more so all we need is 4,998 more people who own these machines to get them. With that being said its uneconomical to get them made. I also reached out to several suppliers and their response was that it is a non catalog part and needs to be special ordered so back to that min of 10K.

    This leaves it to my next idea. I may need some help from the masses and the electronic and mechanical inclined from here. I have a pretty heavy electronics background but could use some help. I am looking to make a fake out board that has the same resistance of the motors and can produce a clock pulse to feed the sensor input. This way the machine thinks the motors are alive and well. Where I need help from some more mechanical engineers is ..... It would be cool to have a non electrical diverter with a spring or counter weight.

    The manufacturer stated that they are not aware of ANY distributer that can get these in small qtys. so that means when they fail the machine could possibly be useless.

    I started looking into this as I have a unit that constantly pops the E81 every 10 min. power cycling the machine lets you play again but then it keeps doing it.

    Is there any members interested in helping me figure this out?

    Has anyone found another work around. I know Calypso has a them removed and his works with out them. I tried the unplug the 3 gray conectors but then it throws E80 instead and same thing keeps coming back.

    Does anyone have an old faulty set of these that they already replaced that they would let me have to see if I can dis assemble it and clean it out? I do not want to destroy the only ones I have.

    Thoughts ?

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    Pachi Puro pachiwall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    WOW! That was a mouthfull. I can't help, as electronics is beyond my understanding...but, I can handle simple electrical circuits. I did understand what you were saying, as you stated it well! Very impressed that you were able to find the information you did! Possibly due to your connections. It is a shame that Sankyo chose such a specific motor for this application. Do you think they made at least 5000 Star Wars machines? Or, might this motor show up in a different machine?
    Good luck with finding a working solution! Keep posting your progress...I'll keep reading!

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    it seems that this motor for this application is very specific for this machine. the only other applicationI can see this motor being used for is a door access system latch actuator, or a automatic vent for something but again 12 v motor with very small torque is not realistic for those. Also most door access systems use solenoids instead.

    Here is what I have from the help of hours of searching and reaching out to people and suppliers. Also special thanks to thrasherwr from here and Calypso. both members have been super helpful. I cant thank them enough. they both save me hours of time.


    the motor is made by Nidec Copal Electronics. A major Japanese manufacturer.

    the part number is SPR27-1000 for those bold pachi fans that actually dis assesembled theirs and say the number 4nbaa stamped on it that is the lot number. from what I gather they all have that so Sankyo paid them to make a big run of them and thats it. MAJOR Fail but remember these things were never intended to live past 2 years in a parlor nor be in your house!

    I have the data sheet that has everything you want to know about them. it even says "lot production required ease contact them to order"

    Screenshot_20190301-235801_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

    I have enough details to make that fake out board. just need some help with ideas , and mechanical engineering stuff. I love these things thats why I have 7 so far. maybe 8 if Frank can get more hint hint .... He and Clover Collectibles arre my favorite supplier!

    I blame him for a thinner wallet lol but worth it and he does a great job for the community so I like supporting Him and his business. I am one determined SOB to get a solution to this issue of these motors.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Looks like a simple torque motor, used to work a lot with these type of motors when they were used for mechanical scan thermal imaging cameras (though the ones we built were very high precision and would cost thousands!). You can drive them with a PWM signal that alternates between +12v and -12v, and the mark-space ratio of the PWM signal controls the angle of the shaft. Though in this application from the audible 'clicking' would suggest that they are simply driven to their end stops, to simplify it further it could also be driven by a +12v pulse and allow the magnetics or an external spring to return it back to centre.

    I don't have a Star Wars, and can't find the disassembly video you refer to, so don't know how this part is used in the pachinko machine. I'm guessing the 'clock pulse' you are talking about is an external sensor that detects that the motor has moved. If you measure the clock pulse and determine it's voltage range and polarity, then you might be able to just use a resistor network to drop down the motor's drive signal to an appropriate level (including a blocking diode if the motor drive has a -12v component), or maybe a safer option is to drive the LED of an opto-isolator from the motor drive, and the opto-transistor output generates the clock pulse. Of course if the motor is driven by a higher frequency PWM signal rather than being driven to it's end stops, a degree of filtering will be necessary to remove the high frequency component.

    I'd be looking at fixing the motor though. They're pretty simple devices, just a coil and an armature, electrically they're just a rotary solenoid. If you've got one good motor, then check the resistance of the windings to make sure that they're similar and that there are no internal shorts. If that's all good, then it's probably just a mechanical issue causing some binding.

    If it's partially seized, then it probably just needs a good clean out and re-lubricating. Solvent baths and ultrasonic cleaning would be my first attempts, but it might be tricky getting a suitable lubricant into all of the right places without disassembly.

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Daverob hope all is well across the pond with you. As always your right it does use PWM to drive it and the sensor just detects if the motor is moving or if it failed. I am sure thats what pops the e81 and e82. Unfortunately i dont have any manuals for it. the d shaft is connected to an actuator that flips the diverter back and forth making that really really harmonious clicking sound. Sometime when i play it before bedtime I can still hear it for hours lol. kind of like a bad Nickleback song. lol the actuator also trips the sensor to tell the machine its moving.

    here is the thread to that video thrasherwr made 3rd post from end

    http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/show...-Vader-problem

    here is a pic of where the sensor is

    Screenshot_20190302-090521_Gallery.jpg

    I took a bunch of pictures and eventually will make a step by step guide to get at them for anyone interested.

    I did ohm it at 53.2 ohms the below also shows the sensor actuator

    Screenshot_20190302-095054_Gallery.jpg


    and here is the specs from the data sheet

    Screenshot_20190302-095237_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

    I like the idea of taking the motor apart and cleaning it. tgis is why i asked if anyone had a dead spare they would part with.

    that would be easiest


    there are small folds in the back plate I could not get free. I may try again. see below. also note I believe this is failing due to moisture see the visible rust

    Screenshot_20190302-095725_Gallery.jpg

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Quote Originally Posted by daverob View Post
    Looks like a simple torque motor, used to work a lot with these type of motors when they were used for mechanical scan thermal imaging cameras (though the ones we built were very high precision and would cost thousands!). You can drive them with a PWM signal that alternates between +12v and -12v, and the mark-space ratio of the PWM signal controls the angle of the shaft. Though in this application from the audible 'clicking' would suggest that they are simply driven to their end stops, to simplify it further it could also be driven by a +12v pulse and allow the magnetics or an external spring to return it back to centre.

    I don't have a Star Wars, and can't find the disassembly video you refer to, so don't know how this part is used in the pachinko machine. I'm guessing the 'clock pulse' you are talking about is an external sensor that detects that the motor has moved. If you measure the clock pulse and determine it's voltage range and polarity, then you might be able to just use a resistor network to drop down the motor's drive signal to an appropriate level (including a blocking diode if the motor drive has a -12v component), or maybe a safer option is to drive the LED of an opto-isolator from the motor drive, and the opto-transistor output generates the clock pulse. Of course if the motor is driven by a higher frequency PWM signal rather than being driven to it's end stops, a degree of filtering will be necessary to remove the high frequency component.

    I'd be looking at fixing the motor though. They're pretty simple devices, just a coil and an armature, electrically they're just a rotary solenoid. If you've got one good motor, then check the resistance of the windings to make sure that they're similar and that there are no internal shorts. If that's all good, then it's probably just a mechanical issue causing some binding.

    If it's partially seized, then it probably just needs a good clean out and re-lubricating. Solvent baths and ultrasonic cleaning would be my first attempts, but it might be tricky getting a suitable lubricant into all of the right places without disassembly.
    Hi Daverob, I recently bought a spare Battle of Vader (for a cheap price) that has this dreadful condition of a dead left side motor/solenoid as described in this post. What sort of solvent would you use? Spray it down with WD-40?

    I think I’ll trying digging into the cell to pull the motor and fiddle around with it; I’ve got a dremel tool I could probably cut those metal tabs that hold the solenoid together? But I’ve never repaired/cleaned a tiny solenoid before; any advice would be helpful!

    I want also want to try taking this cell apart to clean the ball tubes; the tubes in mine are full of gunk and Myrtle Beach sand from filthy balls used in a parlor. If anyone has any tips that have done it before; it would be appreciated!

    If I manage to fix it; I’ll probably sell it, otherwise I’m keeping it for it’s one good solenoid in case my other Battle of Vader machine develops this issue.



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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    I used diluted simple green with a soft cloth to clean the tubes. It worked well and quickly removed the gunk with a little elbow grease. They are held together by screws and consist of 2 halves. do one side at a time. take lots of pics before disassembling.

    In my opinion a brush will scratch it up to much.

    There are a lot of pieces so take your time. might as well clean them since you need to take everything apart to get at all the screws.

    mind doing me a favor if you do it look at the back of the motor it has a black cap with a dimple see if that unscrews. i was pressed for time. I didnt want to leave it in pieces and re assembled before looking at that.

    good luck


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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    It's difficult to recommend anything when I haven't seen it in person, but I would not use WD40 on this if you want the fix to last. It might work as a quick fix, but the solvent in WD40 evaporates and the residue it leaves behind is more likely to gum up and cause problems again. It's also likely that the bearing surfaces in this type of motor are made of plastic, and you shouldn't use a petrochemical based lubricant on plastics.

    If you are dismantling the motor, then mark the casing to ensure it is fitted back in the same position, then either grind off the tabs that have been peened over to hold the back cover, or carefully bend them back with a hammer and punch. Photograph or note down the position of the internal components. Mark the position of the armature (if it is not done already) so it can be refitted in the same rotational position, and remove it.

    Check the bearing ends where the shaft of the armature is supported, and see if are any traces of the lubricant that was used at the factory. If there are clear signs of factory applied grease, then we will need to replace it after cleaning, if it just looks as dirty as the rest of the internals, then it's probably a self lubricating plastic bearing and will only require cleaning.

    Clean all of the parts using an alcohol based solvent (isopropyl, rubbing alcohol etc), apply lubricant (silicone, lithium or molybdenum based grease, check out radio controlled model shops for suitable types, do not use aerosol based greases) and reassemble.

    If you are careful, you can reconnect the motor and test it's operation before securing the rear cover.

    Peen the casing with a hammer and punch to retain the rear cover, being very careful not to distort the outer casing. If you are not comfortable using a hammer and punch for this delicate operation, then you could try using adhesives to retain the rear cover.

    Also please take plenty of photos of the internals and post them here, as this might lead to better recommendations for reconditioning these motors.

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Just an update, Samslack is going to take over this project cell I’ve got, I felt it’s better to let someone take a crack at it that’s more motivated (to fix their bad cell) than I am. Hopefully the bad motor can be reconditioned (or swap a bad motor for a good motor) and others can benefit that may be experiencing this dreadful condition!


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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    update on this been super busy 1 thing left to do.

    So I was successful at taking the motors completely apart on the donor cell "Thanks again Lotsofballs" What I found in that cell and I fear same is happening on most is the permanent ceramic magnet that is slipped around the axle cracked in half from all the constant back and forth. Unless you can find one exactly that size and polarity the motor is done. When I opened it was split in 2 pieces. The brown dust that I thought was rust was the dust from it. If you start seeing a lot of brown dust in these areas and getthe E81 or E82. This could be a sign yours are failing. It took 5 hours to carefully video and document the dis assembly to even get to the tubes. I just need to finalize the edits then I will post. I still need to video the removal of the right side the left is different. Just have not had time yet but soon

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Here is the basic disassembly to get the machine in 2 big parts.

    I did not rush to finish its the same as thrashers there will be 2 more one on how to take out the left motor and one for the right. it takes 6 hours to video and edit as soon as I have time i will finish those.

    First part of Battle of Vador Star wars pachinko machine gold ver

    https://youtu.be/vukyXBKkgHY



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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    Did you ever figure out if the right and left motors are the same (interchangeable)?

    Side note; I just got out my Battle of Vader cell from storage after not playing it for a year or so. I almost forgot how awesome it is when you hit a reach with the 3D scenes! Definitely worth fixing! But those clickers are ridiculously annoying when it’s not being played!
    Last edited by lotsoballs; 10-03-2019 at 07:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Star wars Motors Quest - Clicky motor

    they are

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