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Thread: strategy and skill stopping

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    EDIT: Just watched Jesse's video...Don't want to ruin any bonfires, but I do believe the machine had pre-planned everything. The machine would have slipped the symbols down into Super Heaven's Rush if it wished, and the 7 wouldnt have come in on reel 1 if it lined up with 2+3.
    It is also possible that the machine would have awarded what it planned to even if you completely messed up the eyeshooting. Prime example being.... Biohazard's HAZARD RUSH. When prompted to line up the 7s for HAZARD RUSH, you can make a complete mess, and be awarded the Rush anyway. Same idea applies to machines like Another God Hades... In the 'Zone of Persephone' or 'Premium of Hades', it's possible to miss the important symbols when prompted, and just get awarded whatever as if you had landed on them genuinely. The shooting is just for show. I do have video proof of this here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzy_Jv2U6CQ

    Go to about 9:30 and you'll see what I mean. Might want to watch on mute, or when the kids are not about, as there is some use of bad words....!
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    I think MrGneiss hit the nail on the head...My point was (and I believe tin cans) no one is magical. But the machine lets you hit when it wants to, when "eye shooting" is prompted in those machines where it is valid, then it "gives" it to you via "slipping" (this quote) but you do have to try at it. A good example of this would be Jess's newest vid above. Clearly the game was prompting for a bonus, and when he "aimed" for it, it gave it to him. I DIDN'T know that trying even mattered before this thread, though. I was shocked that in my Biohazard video I could have gotten sevens on the first try! So that is something really cool I learned. Thanks for that! But, as a whole I do agree that even though I can "eye shoot" the first two reels on both of my machines, it is wasted effort until it is ready to pay out (third reel lands). Still fun sport to try for it each time though like Jess said his mom does!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGneiss View Post
    No one is talking about magical powers.. Eye shooting in pachislo just means timing it so you hit a certain symbol, not seeing a speeding 7 and being able to stop it on the spot!!

    Reels slip during normal play so you can't eye shoot (there used to be good slow-mo vids of it) So I'm sure there are machines that slip the reels in your favor during eye shooting times..
    Calypso

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    Fever Hunter JesseLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by PekoJPF View Post
    EDIT: Just watched Jesse's video...Don't want to ruin any bonfires, but I do believe the machine had pre-planned everything. The machine would have slipped the symbols down into Super Heaven's Rush if it wished, and the 7 wouldnt have come in on reel 1 if it lined up with 2+3.
    It is also possible that the machine would have awarded what it planned to even if you completely messed up the eyeshooting. Prime example being.... Biohazard's HAZARD RUSH. When prompted to line up the 7s for HAZARD RUSH, you can make a complete mess, and be awarded the Rush anyway. Same idea applies to machines like Another God Hades... In the 'Zone of Persephone' or 'Premium of Hades', it's possible to miss the important symbols when prompted, and just get awarded whatever as if you had landed on them genuinely. The shooting is just for show. I do have video proof of this here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzy_Jv2U6CQ

    Go to about 9:30 and you'll see what I mean. Might want to watch on mute, or when the kids are not about, as there is some use of bad words....!
    i filmed an example of what you are talking about in my super hell's rush video. but if tim had not tried to go for the sevens he would have been stuck in bonus chance forever.

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    Fever Hunter JesseLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by PekoJPF View Post
    OK my take on it is this.... Eyeshooting is useful, but solely for bonuses is not a constructive use of time.

    Some machines do require eyeshooting, but you also have to know if the machine is ready or not. On machines like Thunder or Versus or Hanabi, this is indeed useful as there are not so many graphical tells, and it can hold out for a short while if it likes. On other more 'hi-tech' machines (Using Eva Path of the Soul as an example), there are more tells. Like at the end of the video as well when you say "The chance of NOT hitting replay or bells is really low", immediately after this occurs, you eyeshoot. A 'Mis-match' as I call it is one of the tells for incoming bonus, and you can get it very often without waiting for the battle or fancy graphics. Very rarely does this not work. You have to watch out for melons or cherries that were meant to come in, and on machines like the old Hokutonoken, it is possible to drop 7-REP-REP for nothing on a Replay tell, and it means nothing. Oh, and when I had Sakura Taisen, she dropped a rainbow flower on occasion, brought in the blue cherry, and did zilch.
    On other machines such as Twin Angel 2, I just eyeshoot any battle games.

    Some machines, there is little point in trying to bring in the 7s so quickly. Hokuto Tomo will respin the reels to bring them in anyway, and Juggler will just light CHANCE if you miss next press. Any GOD clones, and Super Bingo Neos etc. just have enough symbols spaced on the reels to make eyeshooting completely obselete. And don't get me started on the Oki Doki and clones.

    On any machines, I will ALWAYS eye-shoot on the first reel, aiming for cherries and melons. On Juggler I will always eyeshoot the bar, to go for the middle cherry, or lone cherry, for my Reach pattern. On the higher tech machines, aiming for cherries and melons will cement your judgement and avoid any misunderstandings of any 'mismatches'. (If a green or red logo appears but you didn't shoot for cherries or melons properly, it's not a mismatch, you just missed). Machines like Aladdin AII have the cherry eyeshooting at the core of the game, with all combinations at various strengths, giving you a clue if it's worth continuing to play or not. Once a solid pattern has appeared, it's very easy to know WHEN to eye-shoot for 7s or bars. Never about ability to do it (Unless you're talking Hanabi middle bonus. That's tough!) as otherwise we'd have brought in GOD GOD GOD every game and become millionaires.
    wow, thank you for sharing this. i do agree that eye shooting is useful all the time. there is a lot here that i would like to know more about and many questions i would like to ask you. for starters, what is a reach pattern? what is a lone cherry and middle cherry?

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    Fever Hunter JesseLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by JesseLee View Post
    i filmed an example of what you are talking about in my super hell's rush video. but if tim had not tried to go for the sevens he would have been stuck in bonus chance forever.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gteBvbK0ClY

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by JesseLee View Post
    wow, thank you for sharing this. i do agree that eye shooting is useful all the time. there is a lot here that i would like to know more about and many questions i would like to ask you. for starters, what is a reach pattern? what is a lone cherry and middle cherry?
    So, pachislos have 2 types of patterns on the reels. These are called 'Chance Pattern' and 'Reach Pattern'.
    The chance pattern will give an indication that there is a CHANCE that a bonus is coming, and it might be worth continuing to play. A reach pattern is indicative that the bonus is definitely coming, and you should start aiming for the 7s.

    Chance and Reach patterns differ on each machine, but usually it's a line of melons or cherries. Here are the main ones.

    弱スイカ Weak melon, usually a diagonal line of melons
    強スイカ Strong melon, usually on the winline
    弱チェリー Weak cherry, usually a couple of diagonal cherries, but does vary
    強チェリー Strong cherry, usually 3 cherries diagonal in a line or so.
    単チェリー Single/Seperate cherry. One cherry on the 1st reel that doesnt connect. On JUGGLER, this is a Reach pattern
    中段チェリーCentre Cherry. Cherry, reel 1, winline. Very strong chance pattern, and on Juggler it is a Reach pattern.

    Other common Reach patterns are:
    Landing the stack of three 7s, V's, Characters etc. on versus/Hanabi et al.
    Number reaches on GOD/Hades, eg 873 (ha na mi), 365 (one year) and 56V (ko ro bu)
    Landing 3 eyes in view on Hihouden without a win on the reels

    Again, it really does vary per machine. To find out more about your machine, google the name + チャンス目 or リーチ目.

    https://1geki.jp/s/600/blacklagoon2-2.php
    Here are the combinations to look out for on Black Lagoon 2. Remember that the 弱 are not as good as the 強, and even then you might need a considerable wait to hit the win.
    Last edited by PekoJPF; 09-03-2018 at 10:11 PM.
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by PekoJPF View Post
    So, pachislos have 2 types of patterns on the reels. These are called 'Chance Pattern' and 'Reach Pattern'.
    The chance pattern will give an indication that there is a CHANCE that a bonus is coming, and it might be worth continuing to play. A reach pattern is indicative that the bonus is definitely coming, and you should start aiming for the 7s.

    Chance and Reach patterns differ on each machine, but usually it's a line of melons or cherries. Here are the main ones.

    弱スイカ Weak melon, usually a diagonal line of melons
    強スイカ Strong melon, usually on the winline
    弱チェリー Weak cherry, usually a couple of diagonal cherries, but does vary
    強チェリー Strong cherry, usually 3 cherries diagonal in a line or so.
    単チェリー Single/Seperate cherry. One cherry on the 1st reel that doesnt connect. On JUGGLER, this is a Reach pattern
    中段チェリーCentre Cherry. Cherry, reel 1, winline. Very strong chance pattern, and on Juggler it is a Reach pattern.

    Other common Reach patterns are:
    Landing the stack of three 7s, V's, Characters etc. on versus/Hanabi et al.
    Number reaches on GOD/Hades, eg 873 (ha na mi), 365 (one year) and 56V (ko ro bu)
    Landing 3 eyes in view on Hihouden without a win on the reels

    Again, it really does vary per machine. To find out more about your machine, google the name + チャンス目 or リーチ目.

    https://1geki.jp/s/600/blacklagoon2-2.php
    Here are the combinations to look out for on Black Lagoon 2. Remember that the 弱 are not as good as the 強, and even then you might need a considerable wait to hit the win.
    oh ok my percentage theory is incorrect then and i think i understand a whole lot more now. so let me get this straight. i can enter a bonus long before the bonus chance screen comes if i pay attention to the patterns? this must be why i witnessed my friend enter a bonus before anything ever happened. i am still a bit confused though, lets say for example the game tells of a line of bells. do i try to miss the bells or do i want to aim for them? because you said if the game tells of something but doesnt land, this means that a bonus is coming?

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Common symbols like bells and replays, you cannot aim for or aim to miss. The reels can slip 4 places, so you will win them or not regardless of what you do. It's all up to the machine.
    Your man on the Pachi Frontline.

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by PekoJPF View Post
    Common symbols like bells and replays, you cannot aim for or aim to miss. The reels can slip 4 places, so you will win them or not regardless of what you do. It's all up to the machine.
    oh ok. i think i understand now that i have went back and read a few more times. the cherry patterns and melon patterns im looking for but mismatches are also indicative. dude this is awesome i have been trying to figure out what these strategies were talking about for the past couple of months in the pachi books and online and now i finally know that they are reach patterns! i also now understand why i was able to get a bonus before a bonus chance. thank you so much!

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    ok im finally back. ive havent been on here for awhile. but i have been watching my friends play pachislot and i finally understand a lot more of what PekoJPE talked about. the cherries CAN be missed so you have to go for those. the machine will tell you when to go for the cherries but sometimes it wont tell you until after you stop the first reel which is why you are always suppose to go for cherries all the time but once you learn the cut scenes, its no longer necessary. the same goes for watermelons. bells and replays cannot be missed because they are between every 3 spaces and the reels can slip up to 4 spaces. also if you know you are about to get a bonus, you can go ahead and aim for it and get it without having to wait until the cut scene or the bonus chance. also if the machine tells you to go for cherry and you miss it, thats on you, not the machine. each machine has a different symbol that you are suppose to aim for so that you can get the cherries. for example, in black lagoon 2, you have to aim for the red seven on the first reel, as long as you stop it in that general area, and the machine tells you to go for the cherry, you will get the cherry. anytime you are going for somthing that the machine tells you to get, the machine will help you get it by sliding into place as long as you are in that general area, this was also explained already on this thread. im just going through everything that i have learned. when i read all of this it didnt really click in my head until i sat for hours watching my friends play. it took several weeks to really grasp everything. also if you miss the cherries and watermelons, you can still get a reach pattern, the machine will let you know if you hit a reach or chance pattern and you can look in the manual at all these patterns to match up and verify that thats what you hit. the only thing i havent figured out is why you need the cherries and watermelons. i know that it does pay you 1 medal, but PekoJPE said something about it pushes the bonuses forward, i found this to be somewhat true because a bonus usually happens a little time afterwards but i want to know more specifically whats going on cuz sometimes the bonus never comes. is there a list or an order that has to happen? im still a little in the dark here with this.

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    Eye Shooter Calypso's Avatar
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    Glad to know this is still being studied! Keep it up!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Calypso

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    I meant to reply to this a while back, but Christmas etc. got in the way.

    I see exactly what you're saying about pushing bonuses forward, sometimes it never comes etc.
    There isn't a list or order as it were to get bonuses. You aren't required to have hit cherries or melons X amount of times. They are just for show. Your part about aiming etc. all above is correct.

    A good analogy I suppose is metal detecting. Let's put it this way...
    You're off metal detecting in a big field with all sorts of things. Of course, you want to dig up a rare coin, sell it, profit.

    The replays and bells are much like your bottle caps and ringpulls. Worthless, but they keep everything ticking over and you're still occupied.

    The melons and cherries are perhaps unusual metal items that have you thinking "This MIGHT be worth something hey!" You pocket them and take them to that guy off Pawm Stars. Sometimes he will give you a chunk of money, sometimes you get refused.

    Finally, the 7s are your ancient coins, worth a lot. You take it to Pawn Stars and get rich quick.

    Similarly, the field you're in is like the game you're playing. Each step(spin) you take has the potential to set off your metal detector and unearth something above. Of course, there are many more bottle tops than rare coins, but you never know what you will dig up next. Similarly, an unusual item might give you motivation to head back and dig around looking for more, until you have something to take to Pawn Stars.
    Your man on the Pachi Frontline.

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Quote Originally Posted by PekoJPF View Post
    I meant to reply to this a while back, but Christmas etc. got in the way.

    I see exactly what you're saying about pushing bonuses forward, sometimes it never comes etc.
    There isn't a list or order as it were to get bonuses. You aren't required to have hit cherries or melons X amount of times. They are just for show. Your part about aiming etc. all above is correct.

    A good analogy I suppose is metal detecting. Let's put it this way...
    You're off metal detecting in a big field with all sorts of things. Of course, you want to dig up a rare coin, sell it, profit.

    The replays and bells are much like your bottle caps and ringpulls. Worthless, but they keep everything ticking over and you're still occupied.

    The melons and cherries are perhaps unusual metal items that have you thinking "This MIGHT be worth something hey!" You pocket them and take them to that guy off Pawm Stars. Sometimes he will give you a chunk of money, sometimes you get refused.

    Finally, the 7s are your ancient coins, worth a lot. You take it to Pawn Stars and get rich quick.

    Similarly, the field you're in is like the game you're playing. Each step(spin) you take has the potential to set off your metal detector and unearth something above. Of course, there are many more bottle tops than rare coins, but you never know what you will dig up next. Similarly, an unusual item might give you motivation to head back and dig around looking for more, until you have something to take to Pawn Stars.
    so would i be wasting my time getting the cherries and melons? this is hard for me to accept because all of the skilled japanese pachislot players go for cherries and melons on every spin. i mean yeah they pay a few coins but its not really enough to justify the time and effort it takes to time each spin.

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    i found these in the play guide to black lagoon 2 that i thought was suspicious that may have something to do with it. what are these charts? i do not know the japanese language.
    IMG_9380.jpgIMG_9382.jpg

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Those charts show the potential of being awarded a bonus after hitting one of those combinations. It's displayed as a scale from weak, to strong. Looking at the first picture, it shows that replays and weak cherries are the least likely, then moving up to melons, bell combinations (usually these are bells in a V-shape, or missing by 1; Not a line of bells) and then the strongest are middle line cherries, finally the 確定bell, at the top of the scale, is 100%. For the ones at the bottom of the scale, you're looking at 2% or less tbh. I mean a really, really negligible probability.

    And you're right about them just being for show and paying a few coins really. On simple machines like Juggler, very often people just load in the money and hit buttons asap, processing their spins and credit quickly.

    Now on the more complicated machines like yours, it is worth it....in a way. If you're on a limited budget in a parlour, Id recommend it not just for the few coins, but to get an idea of what state the machine's in. If it's only hitting weak cherries and not strong, you'll need to aim to find this out, and it'll help you decide if you want to play on or move to another machine.

    More recently though, some machines will indicate the possible line hit with a noise after the spin is completed. Case in point Hokuto no Ken Tensei, which will make a weak cherry noise, or a strong cherry noise, even if you've missed the possible combination.

    If you're playing for bonus regardless, or have a home machine, it makes little difference what you actually do. But you'll look a bit cooler.
    Your man on the Pachi Frontline.

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Another reason I remembered it's good to eyeshoot after playing today. This is especially important for melons.

    Mis-Matching patterns.
    One of the ways a pachinko will let you know what's happening, is it'll do a common noise, or pattern, and you are awarded a win. This is common on older machines...Say...Hokutonoken. A character appears on screen wearing yellow, and upon stopping the reels, bells will come in. If the win does not come in, then you the bonus is on the way.

    The Case in point TODAY, is playing "Sadako vs. Kayako, a fairly recent simple slot. If it makes 2 or 3 'Phone ringing' noises when you stop the reels, a win should come in. If a win does NOT come in, then a bonus will follow, as the pattern is mis-matched. You're going to win. Right?
    WRONG!
    This machine, along with many other modern ones, has no screen. It is able to indicate when a win is coming, but not able to indicate WHICH win is coming. You can be playing along as usual. Suddenly, you stop the reels, 3 phone ringing noises. THere's no win. You immediately think "Yeah! Great! Here comes the money, get in there!" and plough more and more coins through, but nothing happens. Your thinking is that the bonus should come due to no win. But in reality, when the 3 phone ringing noises came up, it was actually trying to award melons, which you missed yourself.
    In this case, eyeshooting does not count for just seeing if a bonus IS coming, but also for if a bonus is NOT coming, but looks like it is.
    Your man on the Pachi Frontline.

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping


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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Not a clue. Looks like a collectable card for some pachi socialite.
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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    I've said before that I didn't believe in any eye shooting because you can't see the caricatures on a spinning reel. I'm now going to back off that a little. I just got a machine called Snow King and the 7's are slightly transparent. The light will shine though and you can time that 7 almost every time. That works for the second reel to. Now the third reel you can time, but you can see that reel slip and miss giving you that last 7. Now when the machine signals you bonus is coming, you can see reel slipping to that third 7 or with this machine a Woolly Mammoth for bonus. By using eye shooting I was able to get over a 800 token payout. I would go though one bonus and hit bonus again in just few spins. The music never quit after bonus, so I thought I would keep trying to eye shoot. I did think machine was ever going to quit paying out. I even thought it was broke, but it did quit

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    Default Re: strategy and skill stopping

    Well from my experience there are the two jackpot bonuses, Big 777 or small bonus77. If the machine is propting you to hit one or the other, thats when you use your skill stop and you can see the reel slowing down for your eyes and fingers it hit. Now theres true skill stops when Cherry or Watermelons show up. If you hit cherry on the first reel you can stop second and third reel on cherry. Same goes for watermelons. You have to focus your eyes on the reels. When in bonuses if you don’t pay attention you can miss a line. Newer machines will tell you which to stop first.

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