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Thread: Anyone know what frame this is

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Default Anyone know what frame this is

    Does anyone know what frame this is? thecard.jpg

    and if these are contact or voltage outputs for a battle counter

    20160714_230022sized.jpg

    as always thanks for looking.

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    Pachi Puro Peteybob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    'Tatsumaki' (roughly translates as 'Tornado') frame
    (credit Moparformances: http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/mode...per-combi.html)

    I don't have any battle counters so I can't say on the connections. Here's a draft FAQ worth looking at for translations. Thanks Daverob!
    http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/pach...terminals.html
    Last edited by Peteybob; 09-27-2016 at 10:27 PM.

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    I been trying using that guide and I just cant tell I think its voltage contacts but not sure, I also think it should be cn 3,4&5

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    I been trying using that guide and I just cant tell I think its voltage contacts but not sure, I also think it should be cn 3,4&5

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    The pic of the terminal board isn't clear enough to read the Kanji printed on it. Most are guessable, but cant make out the first two above the DC12v markings (the last two read 'output').
    Edit: Just saw the pic on your other thread, It just says 'Information output' so not a lot of help!

    Follow the white cable back to where it plugs into the cell, post a pic of that area, and we should be able to see if the circuit board has relays or optos for contact outputs, or if the outputs are driven by a darlington driver chip for voltage outputs. There may also be a sticker on this board with more info on the output terminals.
    Last edited by daverob; 10-08-2016 at 03:19 AM.

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    This is where that cable goes then it traced to the oki chip just above the connector on this board. I thing this is the payout board not sure












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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Default



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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    That's the games main CPU board, the payout control board will be the one with the LED error code display (the picture with 0-7 and lots of Kanji text is the description of the error codes for this frame).

    It looks like a row of transistors next to the connector, and no sign of any relays or optos, so I'd assume voltage outputs.

    J2CN1 is the start output
    J2CN2 looks like the reel spin output (not 100% sure on this though)
    J2CN3 is the Bonus output.
    J2CN5 is the Kakuhen output.

    To check this, connect the start input on your battle counter (voltage input harness) to J2CN1, drop a ball in the start pocket and see if the counter is incremented. If it works, then you've definitely got voltage outputs. This is the safest way to try as you won't damage a voltage input by connecting it to either type of output, but you may damage a contact type input by connecting it to a voltage output. If it doesn't work, then try swapping the two wires over (most battle counters will work with the input wires either way round, but some need a specific polarity).

    If the count works then try connecting the same start input to J2CN2, (if my translation is correct!) the counter should now increment after each reel spin. If not then try J2CN6 and J2CN7 instead.

    Although the start pocket output will count all balls that fall into the start pocket, it's not usually used for a battle counter if there's a suitable output that counts reel spins instead. The reason for this is that you can only 'bank' up to four reel spins on most machines, after which any balls falling into the start pocket won't trigger a spin. The 'start' output will still pulse for these wasted balls, and skew the statistics shown on the battle counter, when you really want to compare the number of spins between fevers with the odds figures shown on the cell.

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    I tried your suggestion I connected the counter and cn1 to the start voltage input blue and yellow wire



    Opened the door and dropped a ball in the pocket it did not count

    Next I switched the wires in case its a polarity issue same results no count.

    I also tried connecting to cn 2 (start reel and yes your translation was cirrect Dave Rob)
    same thing. Also switches wires/polarity same results. For ****s and grinns I even tried cn 6 & 7 same thing. None of them incrimented the count.

    While connected to the above connectors. Is that the correct input voltage input? I used that awesome guide you made to translate. Did I do good with that?

    I also wanted to verify connection was good so I put my meter on them all I get

    A quick 10v dc pulse when ball dropped in start pocket on j2cn1

    I also get a little longer 11v pulse after reels stop when connected to j2cn2 (so yes you were right) nothing when checking 6 & 7

    If I have the correct voltage input connected is it possible it is contact ? I find it odd these are not designed with any circuit protection.



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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    Yeah, you did good! So I'm not sure why it's not working.

    Those wires in the picture say 'Voltage Input', so it should be the right connections to the battle counter, and the multimeter checks prove that the pachinko outputs are working. There usually are protection diodes on the inputs, so contact inputs will probably survive a mis-connection, but it's still better to avoid connecting them to voltage outputs.

    Just to make sure, you did connect to the Blue/Yellow pair for the 'Start' input? (Red/White = 'Bonus' and Black/Brown = 'Kakuhen')

    Most of the more recent machines are contact output, but I've got a few with voltage output, and they all specify a voltage around 32V. It could be that your battle counter needs a higher voltage to trigger the inputs, but usually there are current limit resistors that lower the output voltage to around 12V when a battle counter is connected.

    Does the counter also have a wiring harness for contact inputs? If so try touching the two wires for the start input together on this harness, if this causes the battle counter to start counting, then maybe it's configured for contact input only. If so then you'll need to figure out how to get the voltage inputs enabled on your particular battle counter.

    Alternatively if the contact inputs work OK, then you could build an opto isolator circuit to convert your voltage outputs to contact outputs. It's just a four pin opto chip and a resistor for each input, so isn't too complicated to build.
    Last edited by daverob; 10-09-2016 at 04:32 PM.

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    Yes the contact inputs count when you test them so I have to figure out some how to see if they can be set to voltage vs contact. I bet thats it. I have the manual but can not tead any if it. Havent found any good translations software either. https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/57fab040...225%281%29.pdf


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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    It might be worth opening up the counter and make sure the loom is in tight. There are many plugs in there. Including some that aren't on the main loom like door open inputs
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    I think im going to just build a relay circuit using these linear voltage
    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/609/ADP1720-878836.pdf this should keep the amps at 50 ma I am going to use an optoisolator and convert to contact


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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    You won't need a voltage regulator in the circuit. Just an opto isolator chip and a resistor.

    The resistor can be selected to control how much current is taken from the outputs on the pachinko. The 50mA spec is a maximum output, as long as you don't go over that you should be fine. Most opto isolators will be good with around 20mA, and you can use ohms law (V=IxR) to calculate the resistor value.

    For a 12V (nominal!) output, and an opto isolator with a 2V LED voltage drop @ 20mA, Ohms law gives us a resistor value of 500 Ohms.

    (12V-2V)=0.02Ax500 Ohms

    Nearest preferred value is 560 Ohms, and you'll want it in a 1/4 Watt or higher.

    Measure the polarity of the voltage output signal on the pachinko. Wire the positive output signal to one side of the resistor, the other side of the resistor to the anode pin of the opto isolator LED. The other wire of the pachinko output signal goes to the cathode pin of the opto LED. The transistor pins of the opto go to the contact inputs on the battle counter, (you may need to try them both ways round, to find out which way is correct!)

    If you'd prefer looking at a circuit diagram, it's pretty much the same as the isolator circuit on the electronic coin acceptor interfacing page on my website. Just swap the V+ and Output on the coin acceptor side for the pachinko's battle counter outputs, and the external switch input on the dongle side for the battle counters contact inputs (ignore the PSU connections).

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    You mean I can just do that and not make it overcomplicated lol.

    I have a tendency of doing that my wife hates that about me. Ok I have a few nte3098's and a few nte 3092 optoisolator chips I had laying around im going to do some testing on my test equip before I hook anything up.

    Dave Rob I wanted to say thank you sooo much for your continued patients and help with this. Once my project is conpleted I will definately share the outcome

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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    Did a bunch of testing I created a simple opto isolated circuit on a breadboard pumped 12 v DC to it put it on a push button and when you press the button the counter counts. When I connect the common to the anode to the signal or + and the cathode the common. Its clear that the pin marked #1 is common as they all seem to connect together If I ohm them they all connect. the one marked #2 are the Signal or + droping a ball pulses the 11.6 v dc but does not operate the counter ???? The only thing I can think of is I am using an old NTE3098 https://jeff.noxon.cc/wp-content/upl...05/nte3098.pdf

    and the pulse from the pachinko machine isnt strong enough to operate the optoisolator I happen to have grrr It was going so well. Any ideas where to source a more appropriate one. I went with the 3098 because I had a few laying around from school.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    That opto isolator looks ok from the data sheets specs. What value resistor are you using in line with the LED side?

    The common pin on the pachinko may not be the negative side of the voltage. Quite often they use the +12v as the common and an NPN transistor to switch the 0v side. So make sure you try connecting the LED side both ways round.

    Providing you've got a suitable value of resistor on the LED side of the opto, the pachinko will be strong enough to drive it. The pachinko can supply up to 50mA and the opto only needs 10mA to operate, so there's plenty in reserve. You can check this by measuring the voltage of the pulse with the opto circuit connected. If the pachinko can't drive the signal strong enough, then the voltage of the pulse will be significantly lower when the opto circuit is connected. In fact if the voltage is lower, you've probably got something connected wrong!

    If you're not sure if you've got it connected up right, then post a picture of the breadboard connections, and I'll check to make sure.

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    I did 11.63v - 5v for the opto led =6.63 v / .02 (20ma) =330 ohm is what I used. It didnt do anything so I tried a 560 ohm in case it was a 2 v led in the opto. Nothing. When measuring voltage across from test circuit power supply I was getting 12 v in. 1.3 v on the opto so I tried a 150 ohm only seemed too low but hey smoking chips can be fun sometimes lol. It actually trips with the 150 ohm. It counts from power supply power test. Now connecting the pachinko I tried both polarity and it did nothing. I will do some more test tonight when I have time. Hell I am thinking of making a video and posting it. I thought I haf it until I hiiked it to the pachinko.

    I will not let this spectacular piece of electronics whipp me LOL

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone know what frame this is

    This is why I hate people using NTE parts, the data sheets are always missing the useful bits. You need to find the OEM part that NTE rebadged and look at the proper datasheet (in this case it's likely to be a Toshiba TLP421, which is what I keep in my parts bins),

    I assume you read the Vcc as 5v and used that as the voltage drop for the LED to calculate the resistor value. If they'd included the example circuits from the TLP-421, it would have been obvious that Vcc was the nominal supply voltage used on the photo-transistor side, and nothing to do with the LED side. The correct drop would be the Vf figure which is 1.15v @ 10mA, and if they'd included the characteristics graphs you'd see that around 1.3v would be typical at 20mA. (The LED voltage ranges from 1v at negligible current to 1.4v when it's at it's max pulse current).

    If it's not working with a 12v supply and a switch with a 560 ohm resistor then something isn't connected right. A 150 ohm resistor is way above the absolute maximum DC rating, looking at the pulse current characteristics (on the TLP-421 datasheet), you'll likely damage it if you hold the button for more than 1/2 second. It will also overload the outputs on the pachinko machine if it is connected with the 150 ohm resistor in circuit, and may cause the battle counter output circuits to fail if left connected.

    Connect it to the pachinko with the 560 ohm resistor. Measure the output pulses voltage at the pachinko when it's connected. If it's lower than 10v, something is wrong. Then check on the LED with the meter, if the pulses are around 1.2v it's good. If it's above 3v reverse the connections and try again.

    Then connect the battle counter and measure across the output transistor of the opto. Red lead on pin 4, Black on pin 3. Make sure the voltage (if any) is positive, if it's negative swap the two wires to the battle counter and try again. When the pulse occurs the voltage should drop to zero (but might be too short for the meter to register the drop).

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    Sandwich Shooter samslack's Avatar
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    You were right nte sucks. I figured out what happened it was driving me nuts and I was starting to wonder if all that money for school back in the day went to waste lol.

    So here is what happened it was late I was determined because I love my machines. I mist of reversed the polarity or mis wired something and mist of fried the opto make all the fiture test fail bad. So I found one last 3098 with a bent pin tried with that and it works great.

    https://youtu.be/OHfXNNlUg74

    Thank you so much Dave I just need to assemble the mini circuit in somethng more permanent now and I can mount the counter. Then im going to work on my fuji machine hook up. I will do the same to that one as it apears to be the same deal. No opto isolators and voltage outputs. I will only beed help verifying the correct connection based on kanji. But wait you made this awesome translation guide.

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