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Thread: Ball lifter belt potential 1000+/min and compact!

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    Blind Shooter Tigerboyreii's Avatar
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    Default Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    So I'm thinking of building a ball lifter belt system. I was thinking of using the belt seen at Grainger here. I'm thinking of the style of lifter seen in a YouTube video, here.

    How do you think I should attach the wood blocks? I was thinking about staples in the center of the block oriented with the width of the belt combined with some stretchy adhesive for great solid grip. I don't want to have to keep adhering blocks. I'm thinking I can get away with 12 feet of belt or less. The drums well be wood, with a square shaft through it, and pins to keep it from slipping (think rotisserie, with pins for holding the meat). Since I'm figuring 20 balls per shelf, each shelf ball width, and a slight gap for fall in, I'm figuring one row of balls per inch. That's 240 balls per foot for a maximum ball weight on the belt of (assuming 5g per ball) roughly 15 pounds, or 6.7kg. I know turkey rotisserie are made to handle turning 20 pounds birds, so I would assume that one of those motors would work well. Worst case, motor wise, I get a better model. The drum will be 2 inch in radius, so a circumference of 12 inches, meaning at either end 6 inches of belt are lost. I took this into account when calculating ball weight. This still provides at least five foot of lift height at 12 foot of belt. Drum rods will have have two rings each held down by two grub screws, fully recessed, then ball bearings slid on those, and those minted down with bolts for tension adjustors.

    Belt will be 78$, bearings ~50$, 1 4*4 for drums free from neighbors fence (lol, dunno price at a home improvement store), and a rotisserie 40$

    Anyone with any other input?

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    Tokie Owens PresidentCthulhu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    My Input: do it, and tutorials/how-to please !

    I have a few thoughts; you did not account for the tension of the belt and how it could impact deciding on the motor (torque). Also,it could be belt driven instead of trying to rig the shaft, plus it would have a higher tolerance for error, since you are not trying to get it centered.

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    Blind Shooter Tigerboyreii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Input to comment:

    This may be one of those things that I don't share easily. I'm sure there's lots of people that would love one, and I could easily make a very small profit off each. I most likely will put the tutorial out there, though.

    As for centering, that's much easier than you'd think. Just takes a bit of pencil lead, a straight edge, and some simple math. The math isn't even important, just lets you understand why it works for finding center. Since these balls are roughly 10mm, a slop that allows roughly 5mm from ledge to farthest away will work. That means you should be within 2.5mm of center, or roughly 1/10 of an inch. This is easy enough to do as long as you don't completely eyeball the center. Being within 1mm will be preferable though, and it's also easy to hit. Just can't let the drill jump when you start drilling.

    TENSION: this won't be an issue with my setup, as the tension will be decided with belt setting. The motor is attached to the rod afterwards, so there's no side loading of the motor. Just the bearings. Any rotisserie motor should work, as they're already rather high torque to turn the heavy loads of meat most people throw on them. They also run with off center loads, so are designed to take high torque in both directions and still control speed. The real drag comes in from the load on the axle bearings, which can be greatly reduced with the right bearing style, whether that's needle or ball or whatever. I would assume needle bearings for greater load spreading on the individual bearings (load on a line with needle bearings, but only on one point with ball bearings). That's just asking a bearing specialist what to use in my application.


    I will say this though, if this works, and starts to catch on, I request that these are called Bostater belts. Gotta carry on the family name somehow, what better way than having a functional design that people use, and is related to pachinko, named after me? "Are you running an orange or silver ball lifter?" "Neither, I'm running a Bostater belt! It's great! "

    Yup, I can see it now...

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    Blind Shooter Tigerboyreii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Lol, the ramblings of a sleep deprived mind are something else sometimes...

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    Sandwich Shooter browne92's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    While I would think that a rotisserie would have enough torque to do the job, it might help to get some numbers. Remember, when turning a 20 pound bird, you've got the bird roughly centered on the shaft. So as the motor is picking up 10 pounds, 10 pounds of bird is 'falling' on the other side of the shaft. Much the same way counterweights work on an elevator. Your motor must pick up 15 pounds of dead weigh, with no counterweight on the down side.

    Second, I suggest you find out what the surface of the belt is made of and research adhesives for bonding the wood blocks to the belt. I did some work with polypropylene a few years back. Everything I tried failed. Super glue, silicone, epoxy, Gorilla glue, nothing worked. Finally found an adhesive made by 3M just for hard to bond plastics. You may find yourself in a similar situation.

    And no matter how many times I read your description, I can't figure out what the 4X4 is for.

    Anyway, best of luck with your design.
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    Blind Shooter Tigerboyreii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Well, I could go with a rubber belt, here.

    The 4*4 is to be turned to make a drum for the top and bottom. The bottom will be a two by two, or three by three (still undecided), matrix of boards joined together somehow. I've also been thinking of using a metal drum, maybe between eight and twelve inches in diameter, internally supported and lined outside with rubber to eliminate slippage of the belt.

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    Blind Shooter Leorules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    We run a full Pachinko Parlor and frankly doing it the old school way is the quickest and most economical way to go. Even at a few hundred dollars per ball lifter, you're talking a LOT of money when you have rows of machines, just not feasible in the real world.

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    Pachi Puro KimbaWLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    The silk drive was a Belt lifter I believe...


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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    My one machine is going to be able to feed my three machines, though. I'm designing it so it should be able to run a row of eight at least. Something like this should be sizeable enough that you could feed ten machines from one. Your parlour would only need four or five, or less with a wider belt or faster motor, and some very precise rails to feed the machines.

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Listen if you can build a quiet belt lifter and keep it reasonable I am in. Money is extremely tight with me at the moment just like everybody else. I have have never been able to justify spending over $300 for one of the orange lifters. the Ball Dozer was really reasonable but I waited too long and now you really can't get one anymore. Oh well JUST how it is. I wish you well on making it work!
    I may not be the best guy, BUT I am not the bad guy!- Coop from Megas XLR

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    I would love to see that! Let me know when you're ready to show it off. Pachinko World could be a future customer, we plan on opening more in different states.

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Nice! I would love to open a parlour out here in grand rapids!

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Alright, quick update. I've decided on using a 12dc gearmotor for drive and locking the shelves down with machine screws and lock nuts. The motor voltage was chosen because the solenoids I'm using well pot a decent force out at this voltage (allowing the machine feed gate to be opened) and because this voltage source can be tapped into (as it will be in standby most of the time, in theory). Plans are in the works to add automotive cigarette lighter ports to the table as well, so people can charge cell phones if they want (just need their car charger and phone with them). Decided on a motor from tsiny motor that should have enough torque. Been doing calculations based on the gearmotor sizing PDF file that bodine has. I'm still figuring about 15lbs max on the belt at any given time, but have changed rpm and drum size to match the feed I wanted initially. The drums will be 3 inch in diameter (now I don't need a stupidly large drive drum) with a 20rpm motor. Each drum will be turned from a single piece of 4*4. With this setup I'm figuring 15lbs * 1.5in drum radius gives 22.5lb.in of torque. Double that because it's moving vertically instead of horizontally and get 45lb.in max torque applied by the motor to fight gravity and move the load across the belt. I'm figuring I want 50lb.in torque in the motor to satisfy this and keep it from running at full load all the time. The calculation for the incline isn't exactly right, as I chose 90° for the angle of incline for simplicity (sin 90°=1) and any angle less than that means less torque.

    The rails have been designed. The bearings and axles sourced. Just need to obtain the belt, motor, and wood to make the thing. Before that, though, the machines need to be mounted and the bench I'm using extended slightly to accommodate the ball feed and return apparatus. I'll put up my schematics soon, when I'm not busy trying to compose an hour long presentation on new chemistry. Fun stuff...

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    So, after much life piling down on me, I've decided to resurrect this project. I'm ordering everything now, and building.

    Just realized that my original plan might be genius, as there shouldn't be any issue with ball jam because I don't actually need to line them up single file for this to work, just dump to a ramp...

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerboyreii View Post
    So, after much life piling down on me, I've decided to resurrect this project. I'm ordering everything now, and building.

    Just realized that my original plan might be genius, as there shouldn't be any issue with ball jam because I don't actually need to line them up single file for this to work, just dump to a ramp...
    Please keep me updated on this, I am VERY interested to see how it turns out since I have over 40 machines

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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    take a look at a "prong style tee nut"

    you can put is one the belt side or the wood side

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    I use them to hold my machines in their frames
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moparformances View Post
    take a look at a "prong style tee nut"
    Sorry in advance... but... I'm just need to say that "prong style tee nut" sounds like an awesome band name.
    Woof!

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Kungishi derek1960's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ball lifter belt (potential 1000+/min and compact!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumsize View Post
    Sorry in advance... but... I'm just need to say that "prong style tee nut" sounds like an awesome band name.
    That depends on what you've been Smoking

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