Help with power distribution board for kyoraku kamen rider machine.

[rugdoctor]

image.jpg
Hi All,

My stepdown gave and it tripped the fuse which I have replaced, but it also took out the diode which is missing here. Can someone tell me exactly what I need to find and also whether there is any polarity to the install?

Thanks!!

Kelvin

[Tink]

The board symbol looks like it may be a diac, not a diode. Perhaps someone with a similar machine can help more.

[rugdoctor]

Thanks! A diac...

[rugdoctor]

Some better pics...

image.jpgimage.jpg

[rugdoctor]

And the machine itself

image.jpg

[Tink]

Nice looking machine, sorry I can't be more help as you definately cooked it. I don't own any moderns so I couldn't even hazard a guess. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help.

[rugdoctor]

Yeah, it will be nice to get it up and running again. The stepdown I had just could not cope with it I think so it gave after a couple of minutes of play.

[rugdoctor]

I came across this thread: http://www.pachitalk.com/forums/show...l=1#post525321 and I think it could be the broken component I highlighted...a D560 diode, anyone can point me to it on the web? Thanks!!

[Drunkenclam]

Although I can't help with the part (try a search for RS Components) look on the back and get the VA rating of the machine, make sure you replace your transformer with one rated higher than that 10% higher is good bet.

[rugdoctor]

Got a 500watt step down on standby

[rugdoctor]

I tested the voltage on the machines transformer and it is outputting about 27V AC is that normal?

image.jpg

Not long now my precious...sorry for the sporadic bump but it's my first machine and I really want to play it

[Drunkenclam]

Best to measure under full load. What did the old one read?
although most are designed to have 10% +/- tolerance

[rugdoctor]

I wish I could but with the blown component, I am reluctant to plug everything in. The more I look into it the more I am leaning towards a TVS diode, but don't really know for sure which one to use?

[daverob]

You should be safe to plug it in with the blown diode removed. This component's only purpose in life is to blow violently and take out the fuse if the machine is accidentally plugged into a 100v supply instead of the required 24v supply. If you're certain your transformer is the right voltage, it will be safe to power up the machine without it.

You've checked the voltage on the transformer and it's almost within spec (the manual for the frame states 24v +/-10% which is 26.4v max). But a transformer reading ~27v with no load is close enough, and is very likely to drop a volt or so when the machine is connected, so it should be fine. My 300W transformers read about the same off load, but are within spec when connected to a pachinko machine.

It doesn't really matter the exact spec of the diode you replace it with, if you can source a bidirectional Transient Voltage Suppression (TVS) diode with a voltage rating of around 50v and a similar physical size, then it should be a suitable replacement. If you have difficulty finding something, then point us towards a preferred component distributor for your side of the planet, and we'll take a look for one.

[rugdoctor]

the diode did go violently, like the self destructing tape recorder from mission impossible violent. I usually purchase from RS electronics. I will put up a link if I can find some bi TVS...so happy

[Drunkenclam]

if I can find some bi TVS...so happy

no matter how happy you are, this is a family forum, so please keep your bi TVs to your self
good luck finding your part.

[rugdoctor]

A quick search through RS yield these results:

http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/tvs-diodes/8031780/

R7435983-01.jpg

class: dr-table rich-table specificationTable, width: 620

[TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row dr-table-firstrow rich-table-firstrow oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Configuration[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Single[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Diameter[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]5.6mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Dimensions[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]5.6 Dia. x 9.5mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Direction Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Bi-Directional[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Height[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]9.5mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Clamping Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]49.9V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]175 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Peak Pulse Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]30.1A[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Leakage Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]5µA[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Stand-off Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]30.8V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Breakdown Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]34.2V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]-55 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Mounting Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Through Hole[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Number of Elements per Chip[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Package Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]DO-201AE[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Peak Pulse Power Dissipation[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1500W[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Pin Count[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]2[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Test Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1mA[/TD] [/TR]

or

http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/tvs-diodes/6873891/

R192654-01.jpg

class: dr-table rich-table specificationTable, width: 620

[TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row dr-table-firstrow rich-table-firstrow oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Configuration[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Single[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Dimensions[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]7.6 x 3.6 x 3.6mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Direction Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Bi-Directional[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Height[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]3.6mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Length[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]7.6mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Clamping Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]49.9V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]+175 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Peak Pulse Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]12.6A[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Leakage Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1µA[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Stand-off Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]30.8V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Breakdown Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]34.2V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]-55 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Mounting Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Through Hole[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Number of Elements per Chip[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Package Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]DO-15[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Peak Pulse Power Dissipation[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]600W[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Pin Count[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]2[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Test Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1mA[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Width[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]3.6mm [/TD] [/TR]

and this:

http://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/tvs-diodes/5438472/

R192654-01.jpg

class: dr-table rich-table specificationTable, width: 620

[TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row dr-table-firstrow rich-table-firstrow oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Configuration[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Single[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Dimensions[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]7.62 x 3.56 x 3.56mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Direction Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Bi-Directional[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Height[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]3.56mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Length[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]7.62mm[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Clamping Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]49.9V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]+175 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Peak Pulse Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]12A[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Leakage Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]5µA[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Maximum Reverse Stand-off Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]30.8V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Breakdown Voltage[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]34.2V[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Minimum Operating Temperature[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]-65 °C[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Mounting Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]Through Hole[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Number of Elements per Chip[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Package Type[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]DO-15[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Peak Pulse Power Dissipation[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]600W[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Pin Count[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]2[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row evenRow"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Test Current[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]1mA[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: dr-table-row rich-table-row oddRow, bgcolor: #EEEEEE"] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column1"][/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column2"]Width[/TD] [TD="class: dr-table-cell rich-table-cell column3"]3.56mm[/TD] [/TR]

[daverob]

OK, when I said around 50v I should have specified which of the voltages on the data sheet I meant!

The 'Maximum Reverse Stand-off Voltage' needs to be above 37v to be suitable for a 24Vac supply. This is because 24v AC has peaks of 34v and then we need to add a 10% tolerance for slightly higher output transformers and/or slightly low spec diodes. The originally fitted protection diodes fitted to pachinko machines that I have checked data sheets for has this voltage usually specified at around 50v (usually either 47v or 56v). We also need the 'Maximum Peak Pulse Current' to be larger than the fuse rating, which is 15A on this machine.

From RS components, I'd choose the 1V5KE47CA as a universal replacement for pachinko machines. The voltage ratings are high enough to not be falsely triggered in normal operation and low enough to offer protection to the switch-mode power supply components and the current rating is high enough to ensure the fuse blows.

[rugdoctor]

Another problem I stumbled onto...it seems it does need the TVS diode as this component gave way once I switched on the machine.

[daverob]

That's one of the voltage regulator ICs. It won't have blown because of the missing TVS diode, but may have failed when the fuse blew and you just saw it's final death throes when you powered it back up. Was it powered back up with the original suspect transformer, or the replacement one. Can you post some pictures of any markings on the transformer(s) so we can check the specs.

What's the history of this machine. Has it been working OK for any length of time and then the fuse and diode blew, or did you buy it in a faulty state?

The only reason for the TVS diode to have failed would be because of a significant over-voltage. This would need to be either a massive power surge (either a sustained surge of around 150% of nominal mains voltage, or a very large spike), this level is likely to have also damaged other electronic devices at the same time. The other reason is for the machine to be used with an incorrect transformer, or plugged in without a transformer.

I can't think of any failure modes that would cause a correctly working transformer to produce an increase in output voltage. When transformers fail, they either go short circuit or open circuit. An open circuit would stop power flowing and there wouldn't be any output at all. A short circuit winding internal to the transformer would be the same as shorting out the output windings, and the output voltage would drop or disappear completely. The only theoretical way for a wound transformer to increase it's output voltage would be a short circuit occurring in the primary windings (which would reduce the number of turns in the primary and so increase the output voltage), but there would also have to be a simultaneous open circuit in the remainder of the primary windings so that there are no shorted turns. The short circuit and open circuits would have to happen almost simultaneously or the internal thermal fuse would blow and the transformer would stop working completely.