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Thread: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    DRove 13 hours round trip yesterday to pick up the arrangball from SC. My initial thoughts are the exterior parts are pretty beat up. The inside looks to be complete.
    When i opened it up a small rod fell out. It is threaded on one end. I cannot figure out where it belongs just yet.

    I spent a little while this morning cleaning it up some. Removing dust and dirt from the inside. Pics will be posred later today.

    AG
    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    Congratulations!!! Looking forward to checking out.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
    Pachiholic and Proud!!! サメ

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Before powering it up, thoroughly check the inside and make sure there's nothing where it shouldn't be to possibly cause a short.
    The threaded rod could be the one that the ball release mounts to. This one is about 6 or so inches long.
    The pic is the right side of the ball release showing the rod where it articulates with the solenoid.
    There maybe another rod in there somewhere and I'll check my machine again...
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    thats not the part. i am still trying to figure it out. i will haul the machine to card shark's place this upcoming weekend and do a side by side comparison. so far it appears that it is working fine. the cards are working and the electro-mechanical just needs some fine tuning.a few bulbs and it is ready for restoration.
    now i just need the front panel,(hint hint!).

    AG
    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    Really looking forward to working with you on the machine. Hopefully we cn find a way to replicate the door from the one on mine.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    here are some pics in its current state
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    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Sandwich Shooter browne92's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    Is the missing door just a cover, or does it provide some other function? From the picture, it looks like one could be fashioned from a solid colored acrylic without too much trouble.
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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    the door has no functional needs. i too thought about an acrylic panel. then build it up to somewhat duplicate he original. but as luck would have it, i have come across another machine which is a parts donor. i split it with Card Shark. between us we will have cosmetic replacement parts as well as an almost complete set of mechanical parts.
    i will just need to build up one corner of the panel and paint it and i am in business.
    i would like to get all the plastic parts on the face restored. also i have someone who is in the process of repairing the damaged control modules inside.

    i am ahead of schedule on this project thanks to Card Shark, Emmadog and Moparformances.

    AG
    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    On Tuesday I Dropped off my "A" card and sharks "B" card to a friend at work who is an electronic junkie. As of yesterday he has repaired the "A" card which had a couple bad switching transistors on them. He found that the only way to detect the problem was to apply a small voltage to the circuit. Only then did they shown they were bad. So three new transistors and we have a good board. Today he will be checking the " B" card. I got lost when he started explaining the redundant check relays on the B card. All i know is he is a wiz at these things. So hoping by monday to have both cards back and now we will have a back up pair to give him to repair when our parts machine arrives!

    AG
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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    That's great and sounds like y'all have a repair guy for arrangeballs in general. A great mod for any arrangeball is to convert the hot running and relatively short-lived bulbs to LEDs. I'm sure he could hook y'all up with the how-to's on that.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    We have both been discussing converting both machines to LEDs. Probably will happen soon. Any insights on this would be greatly appreciated.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    the LED's should be straight forward and easy. as long as they are biased correctly all is good. i am going to buy a bunch of 12 v LED's off of ebay. you can get them with the resistors already retrofitted. just solder them into place. i was looking last night at my machine and some of the LED's i already have. the leads are a bit long with the resistors in line.i might put some stand offs on the mounting board and back it off an inch or so. this should let everything fit in nicely.
    i am also thinking of a couple LED's in the window that shows the balls still in play. a little back lighting maybe.
    i am stoked and ready to move ahead.

    AG
    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Sounds cool. LEDs are straightforward and I've got them on my machines. However, and Ive mentioned this before, some machines have a residual current going through all the leads on the matrix once at least one bulb is lit. The result is that one or more additional LEDs glow when they shouldn't. I can't remember if this machine exhibits that as not all do. An engineer made the LEDs with diodes for me and this was the first machine I converted. Point is, I hadn't started experimenting on my own yet to see if the residual current existed. The custom LEDs I had made for this machine worked right away. Also, use warm white LEDs to get the factory glow.
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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    A pic of one of the units I had made. Its has an etched circuit board with a resistor and a diode. Some have multiple resistors and diodes just depended on the specs of the particular machine. They were fairly expensive which I didn't mind paying for piece of mind for a vintage arrangeball but they were very labor intensive to make in this style and I needed several hundred. In short I got enough for several machines and then I made my own with only LEDs and resistors and thats when I discovered the ghosting issue on some machines described above.
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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Fever Hunter ANGRY GARY's Avatar
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    That is some useful information to know! I will speak with my co worker about the LED issue and get his input. If you don't mind me asking what did they cost per unit to make?
    I figure 23 will be needed per machine.
    AG
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    i got thinking about your statement in the previous post. the more i think about it the more i am leaning towards a leaky diode than residual current. an old diode will "leak" current in the opposite direction and thus apply small amounts of voltage upstream of the circuit point where it is located. obviously not enough current to affect the operation of the circuit, but enough to make an LED glow. could this have possibly been the culprit?
    RUDY WAS OFFSIDE

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    I'm sure your HAM radio buddy can figure out that issue if you run into it. I do know one of my Satomis had this residual current and the reason why was to keep the filament in the bulbs warm. This allowed the bulbs to light up faster and was common on many different types of machines that had bulbs turning on and off. With incandescents bulbs its not enough current to make them glow. Of course it could also be just something inherent to the design of some arrangeballs.
    The cost of the component for each module was under 50 cents and the total cost was about 6.50 or so. I didn't mind paying that but it got to be that the guy just didn't have the time with work, family, etc., and it still probably wasn't much money compared to his day job. When we were on the phone discussing mopar's parts machine I mentioned him as the one that created the schematic.
    The pics show my machine with the LEDs installed on the circuit board and I also have them on the score bar.
    The other pic shows the "Lion" pocket that I think was original. Your and Card Shark's machine have a traditional tulip pocket there and my theory is that it may have been changed by operators to make it harder to get a ball in that pocket. On my version there's a hole on either side that a ball can enter and doing so it kits one of the Lion's eyes which are swinging pendulums. If your parts machine has that style pocket I'd switch it out or flip Card Shark for it. Anyway, there's a red light that comes on for every ball in and I removed the incandescent bulb and put a red flex neck LED in there. It directs all the light forward unlike the factory incandescent.
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by ANGRY GARY View Post
    i got thinking about your statement in the previous post. the more i think about it the more i am leaning towards a leaky diode than residual current. an old diode will "leak" current in the opposite direction and thus apply small amounts of voltage upstream of the circuit point where it is located. obviously not enough current to affect the operation of the circuit, but enough to make an LED glow. could this have possibly been the culprit?
    it definitely could be but I do know that current in some applications was intentional for the reason stated above. I just don't know enough about electronics to make an informed assessment. my LEDs do have a diode on them but I don't know their exact function and your idea sounds as plausible as any especially considering the age of the components.
    Last edited by emmadog; 06-07-2014 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: brought home "the one that got away" yesterday.

    If you google the number on the side of the diode, I suspect it is a 12 volt zener. If it is, what you've got is a 12 volt LED assembly with a small regulator circuit that allows it to operate on higher than 12 volts. If that is true, it's really electronic overkill, and would have been much simpler to use a discrete LED and the proper dropping resistor for the supplied voltage.

    I doubt there is any "keep warm" circuitry for the lamps, they simply don't take that long to come on. The last time I've seen anything like that done was in tube filaments in old TV sets. But without some sort of schematic to analyze, the best guess I could venture was the fact that early transistors were not the best, and may be a bit leaky.
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