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Thread: Diamond Jack

  1. #21
    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    Many times cab repaints can be removed to reveal the original paint underneath. Happens all the time and same with me on the DJ. Problem is you can't go removing paint on a machine you don't own to check and see.
    Bummer.
    Yep, so I did offer a low price (half what they wanted) and said if nobody offers you more and you are willing to take it call me and if I have not found another 50s machines prior I will come and check it out. We shall see.
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    I love those old wood rails. I think as far as play goes, the consensus is they're usually not terribly exciting. I tend to agree as I've played many at shows but what they lack in game play they make up for in charm and artwork. I've owned a few and regret selling a '59 Queen of Diamonds. That machine was alot of fun and had great art. Plus I love the old time light up number scoring. Fun to watch those numbers rapidly turn on and off.
    Agreed. They may not be as exciting but in terms of a piece of playable art I would love to have one...
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

  3. #23
    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    Sanded the remaining paint off the cab and filled the gouges with putty. There weren't many scrapes and dings so that saved some work. The backbox had a 2" square of one layer of ply knocked out so that got epoxy filler. The front of the cab had some slight damage around the coin door which is common from people trying to pry the door open. Epoxy filled that as well. All the filler has cured and I'll sand it down tomorrow with the final grit of sandpaper and spray on the primer. I picked up the red, white, and yellow paint today as well. I should have the white base coat done by Sunday-the weather's supposed to cooperate. Still have to figure out what method to apply black paint to get the webbing effect that goes on after the base coat and before the stencil graphics. Gottlieb used this or some sort of stippling on all their machines.
    Pics are of the cab and head with filler. It's hard to see the regular filler since I used so little but the black areas are the unsanded epoxy filler.


    For the webbing Clay has some techniques here: PINBALL: Restoring Arcade and Pinball Games, Part One
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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  5. #24
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Thanks for the link. I've seen his technique and several others plus I have an idea to try out with my airbrush. I think a splatter effect is relatively easy to do but its not correct. Not sure when I'll get to it- looks like its going to be too cold to paint unless I rig up my garage but not sure if I'll go they that hassle. We'll see.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    NP. I personally don't care for the webbing and not sure what prompted them to start doing it to begin with but if I was repainting I would add it to to keep it with the original look. Hopefully the weather works out for you. I am in a paint free zone for at least a few months.
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Webbing is common on commercial items and products with large expanses of the same color. The reason is to help conceal the inevitable scratches and scuff marks that occur.
    I may be able to prime the cab today since the operating range for my primer is wide. Gottlieb didn't pime their cabs but I'm using water base paint and I don't want any wood grain raising especially after all that sanding.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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  9. #27
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Got the first cost of primer on which revealed a few defects to work on and a couple drips to sand out.There's some factory wood filler that looked fine but once the primer was on a small gap around the perimeter was revealed. I think the base cost of paint would easily fill it not to mention if its under one of the red diamonds since that's at least 3 costs of paint. Gonna fill them anyway. The interesting thing about this process is that typically anyone doing this is going to do their best to make it pristine. When in fact, the machines out of the factory weren't perfect. The same model of machine could have slightly different cab colors, dings in the wood that were painted over, and plenty of overspray with the stencils. That's actually one way to tell a restoration paint job from the factory. Frequently restorers use adhesive stencils which yield sharp paint lines which depending on the observer either looks great or not so great since its not authentic. So here's. some pics of the cab unprimed and then in one of the rooms in my house to cure. I can do this because the Frau is out of town.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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  11. #28
    Kungishi ballsofsteel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Found a can of this stuff at a yard sale but haven't tried it yet:

    Krylon Webbing Spray Faux Finish | MisterArt.com

    From the comment section: "Rated by: Sam N. in Wichita, KS I restore old pinball machines and if the cabinet paint is beyond saving or someone has painted over the original paint a complete repaint of the cabinet is reqiured. Certain machines from the 60's had a webbed cabinet before the stencil work was done. The KRYLON webbing spray matches this very nicely. Easy to use and dries quickly. One can will do several machines. A+ for this product."

    hmmm...
    "Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber

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  13. #29
    Sandwich Shooter jodini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Here's my webbing with the Krylon. I think it works pretty well, but keep the can moving!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Excellent job on the repaint! Did you spray or brush/roll on? Your webbing looks nice too. The biggest complaint about Krylon is too thick of lines. Im not opposed to going the Krylon route but i need to test a couple ideas I have first. One is to decant some enamel spray paint and let some of the solvent evaporate so the paint thickens up and then run it thru the airbrush.
    It's too cold to paint here but I bought all my paint as well as an airless spray gun that develops 2K psi so no thinning required which is good since I'm going with thick acrylic latex paint. I'm still filling and sanding the cab and getting it very likely smoother than it ever was at the factory. Once that's done I'll shoot it with a final coat or two of primer.
    Also, what did you use for stencils?
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    Webbing is common on commercial items and products with large expanses of the same color. The reason is to help conceal the inevitable scratches and scuff marks that occur.
    I may be able to prime the cab today since the operating range for my primer is wide. Gottlieb didn't pime their cabs but I'm using water base paint and I don't want any wood grain raising especially after all that sanding.
    thanks, i was not sure why they did it. I assumed it was just a look they were going for that I just don't dig.
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Kungishi ballsofsteel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Here's a few pix of Hot Line.
    DSC01689.jpgpainted.JPGpaint2.JPGDSC01926.jpg

    I got a roll of this here stuff from my local paint store. It made a fairly decent set of stencils.

    I probably should have skipped the last blast with the splatter can but oh well live and learn.
    "Knowledge is good." - Emil Faber

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  19. #33
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by ballsofsteel View Post
    Here's a few pix of Hot Line.
    DSC01689.jpgpainted.JPGpaint2.JPGDSC01926.jpg

    I got a roll of this here stuff from my local paint store. It made a fairly decent set of stencils.

    I probably should have skipped the last blast with the splatter can but oh well live and learn.
    Nice job. Did you cut the stencils with a vinyl cutter or by hand? I like the splatter paint much better than the webbing.
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by jodini View Post
    Here's my webbing with the Krylon. I think it works pretty well, but keep the can moving!

    Nice job as well!
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Nice job on that Hot Line! That's a great idea on that stencil.

    I sort of cheated Emmadog! I sent pics of the design to our friend Callie and she made a decal. However the front red was a stencil and it's paint.PB091313.jpgPB091315.jpg You might want to see what she can do for you on a stencil.


    I agree on the Kryon...it's a little thick and made it difficult for the stencil to stay on without the paint bleeding.

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  23. #36
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    The interesting thing about this process is that typically anyone doing this is going to do their best to make it pristine. When in fact, the machines out of the factory weren't perfect. The same model of machine could have slightly different cab colors, dings in the wood that were painted over, and plenty of overspray with the stencils. That's actually one way to tell a restoration paint job from the factory. Frequently restorers use adhesive stencils which yield sharp paint lines which depending on the observer either looks great or not so great since its not authentic.
    I think that when you are doing your own work you want it to be perfect which leads to you wanting to make it pristine as you mentioned. I don't mind the look of overspray but have seen it very extreme in some cases. When I painted my Signal, I went for crisp lines because it is a stained wood cabinet and thought overspray would look bad. Also no idea if it would have had crisp lines or not. The only examples I had seen in pictures, the paint jobs were not original so no idea what should be done so I went with what I thought would look best.

    PaintMask.jpgpaintjob-complete.jpg
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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  25. #37
    Eye Shooter Mrtoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Also this is what I used. I cut it on a vinyl cutter. OraMASK 813 Stencil Film - 15 inch x 10 yds - Sign Supplies and Equipment
    Restoring the past - Super-8 and Signal

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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by jodini View Post
    Nice job on that Hot Line! That's a great idea on that stencil.

    I sort of cheated Emmadog! I sent pics of the design to our friend Callie and she made a decal. However the front red was a stencil and it's paint.PB091313.jpgPB091315.jpg You might want to see what she can do for you on a stencil.


    I agree on the Kryon...it's a little thick and made it difficult for the stencil to stay on without the paint bleeding.
    Interesting idea on the decals. I may call Callie for my next project but alot of this one is just taping off the yellow areas so no stencils needed there. There's 4 different diamond sizes and I've got those traced out on mylar so it will just be a matter of placing them on the stencil and cutting them out.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Sandwich Shooter jodini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diamond Jack

    I just decided to go with this because of all the symmetrical curves I did not want to tackle. Look forward to what you come up with!

  28. #40
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Curves and arcs are definitely the difficult part. If its a circle or part of one then a compass could be used. The diamonds have concave sides so for the ones on the side and the largest ones on the backbox I used one of those flexible curve drawing tools. You just place it on the curve and bend it to it and it stays and now you have that exact curve to trace from. While I wait for the weather to warm I'll start on removing the parts from the old playfield to the new. Should be straightforward but time consuming although much easier than an SS machine. I think the biggest hassle will be unsoldering all the light sockets from the ground braid. That'll give me a chance though to do Clay's lamp socket soldering tip for a better electrical connection. I did it to my old Kings and Queens. I got tired of flickering or dim bulbs occurring every now and then.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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