Token in- token out law.

[scooby_doo_m2002]

Ok all you pachi lovers!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you had your blood pressure meds yet today???? If so, read on, if not, then don't read....


Pachislo machines are legal in all but 3 states. What causes us casino machines to be illegal for home use in Indiana? I know its a gambling thing, and I know that you guys aren't lawyers, but if you took an american slot machine converted it to token in/ token out only. for home use like you do your pachislos, and no other coins would work, and if someone came over, you gave them a cup of tokens and if they won cool, but no money, no gifts no nothing were exchanged, would I still be in violation of the laws?

[scooby_doo_m2002]

AND!!! although it wouldn't do any good, what could I do to possibly be exempt from these stupid us slot laws???? I already know most of the answers.... "get a pachislo machine" or "Get a gamming licsense"..... lol BUT, I am talkin about us slot machines and am not opening up my own casino.... thanks

[Tulsa]

First thing you need to do is examine your states laws and definations. Find out by law what your state defines as a slot machine. Simply calling it a slot machine isn't enough.

[gwarzin]

To the best of my knowledge Indiana has never enforced any of their slot machine laws unless you were actually using the machines in public or for gambling. I have a couple of antique U.S. slot machines that are now old enough to be legal in Indiana - but they weren't when I bought them. And I purchased them from a store in Zionsville that openly sold them - and that was 20 years ago when there wasn't ANY exemption in Indiana for antique slot machines. Now you can have one as long as it is 40 years old.

I think pachislos fall into a gray area in Indiana. It would really depend on how the Attorney General wanted to interpret and enforce the law. Here is a link to an "official" opinion on skill stop machines.

http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/ad...01/2001-09.pdf

Note that the machine they are talking about had a dollar bill acceptor attached and would be used for gambling. It is obvious that they were really trying to get around the gambling laws. So it is no surprise that the AT ruled against them. Had it been a pachislo for home use the answer might have been different. BUT if you read the entire document you will see that he says that even a token-in, token-out skill stop would be illegal. So based solely on this document you COULD make a case that pachislos are illegal in Indiana.

To put this in context, you have to realize that even pinball machines are technically illegal in Indiana - and the State doesn't go around smashing them with bulldozers. Pinballs are illegal because the gambling statutes were written some time ago and were intended to deal with specific situations that existed at that time.

Early pinball machines were gambling machines. They tried to get around the gambling laws by calling them games of skill and paying out replays instead of cash. One type of pinball, a Bingo machine, paid out hundreds of replays, which you then cashed in with the bartender. To ban these, Indiana adopted a law that said a pinball machine, even if it was a game of skill, would be illegal if it paid out free games AND you could see a number that indicated the number of free games won. So for a while all manufacturers of legitimate entertainment pinball machines covered up the free game window on all machines shipped to Indiana and used a light that would indicated you had won a free game - you just wouldn't know how many.

Bingo machines eventually disappeared (except from my basement). Police stopped enforcing the pinball law. And today pinball machines in Indiana show the number of free games won. Even though it is still technically illegal.

I think pachislos are a lot like that. Use them for fun, in your own home and there will likely be no problem. Every step beyond that increases the risk of trouble. Using them in public, selling them, converting them to quarters, adding auto stop all make your situation worse. You might still be OK, but each step makes it harder to the state to ignore them. So there is a gray area between simply owning one (which "might" be legal) and using one for gambling (which is defiantly illegal).

U.S SLOTS ARE A MUCH WORSE SITUATION. They are illegal in Indiana, period. Unless it is 40 years old, it is clearly illegal to even own one. Again, the state might not really care if you just used it in your home and didn't use it for gambling. But if you get caught, you really don't have a leg to stand on. There is no argument that you could make that would have much of a chance of standing up in court. There is no skill involved and, as you can see in the PDF, token-in and token-out is not enough to save you.

My argument on pachislo is:

1. There is some degree of skill - like in pinball. (This is weak.)
2. Token-in, token-out. (This is again a weak argument except for two things. A) In my game room tokens are openly sitting out where people can grab them. B) The keys are hanging on the back of all my machines so people could easily get to the tokens inside the machines. So obviously tokens are not a thing of value.
3. No gambling has ever taken place. The closest to that is a cheap prize given at a party. I can supply a list of hundreds of people that have been at my parties that would attest to that.
4. Commonly accepted practice. Hundreds of websites list pachislo as legal in Indiana. Some very well known and highly visible stores sell the machines without interference from the State. J.C. Penny shipped games into Indiana. UPS and FedEx refuse to ship illegal goods (like alcohol) into Indiana. They have both knowingly and repeatedly accepted shipments of pachislos. The State is clearly sending the message that these are legal if not used for gambling. (This one is the strongest argument.)

[scooby_doo_m2002]

Thank you sooooooooooooooooooo much for the info gwarzin!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gwarzin]

Just noticed a typo that it was too late to go back and edit. When I said "AT" I really meant "AG" for Attorney General.

[monaghj]

If you check out people like http://www.slotmachines4less.com/quarter.htm which specialize in IGT quarter slots (and bill validators). They are shipping to 48 states. I concur that as long as you are not using them for actual gambling most states allow them in private homes for personal entertainment. Just like having a poker night. No one is going to come busting down your door unless there are complaints.