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Thread: Absurd insurance charges !

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    Fever Hunter FREKKEN TEKKEN's Avatar
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    Default Absurd insurance charges !

    Today I went online to see what a few of the pachinko vendors had to offer and was happy to find an Ultra Seven 2 Pachinko. The vendor is new to me so I quickly registered all my information to get on their mailing list and also started filling out an order for the machine. To my surprise I then found out that they charge 20% of the purchase price of the order for the insurance rate. On my order that calculates to over $50.00 to ship the machine. Otherwise they ship with no insurance and no interest on condition of machine if and when I receive it!
    So they sent a note to my email address welcoming me to their site and mailing list that I quickly responded to. I stated that they could remove my name from their mailing list because it would be a cold day in ( you know) before they ever saw me place an order and pay those charges!
    So tell me were the rest of you aware that these kind of charges were being applied to some members orders for insurance coverage? I must be out of the loop because I had no idea that those kind of charges were going on.
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    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    all my machines were sent ups or fedex, I never paid any insurance charges!
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    ask them to explain how they arrive at that cost and see if it's negotiable. sounds to me though that they're just trying to up their profit.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Fever Hunter FREKKEN TEKKEN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by luckydog View Post
    all my machines were sent ups or fedex, I never paid any insurance charges!
    I forgot to mention that they charge $85.00 FOR SHIPPING and that is the average shipping charge with most vendors who use FedEx & UPS and includes the insurance?
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    Fever Hunter FREKKEN TEKKEN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    ask them to explain how they arrive at that cost and see if it's negotiable. sounds to me though that they're just trying to up their profit.
    If that's the way they are trying to up their profits it doesn't sound like the kind of folks I do business with!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FREKKEN TEKKEN View Post
    If that's the way they are trying to up their profits it doesn't sound like the kind of folks I do business with!
    I agree. I suppose it depends on if they'll remove the charge and how bad do you want the machine/availability. If it were me I'd at least want to know how they arrive at 50 bucks and if its a fleece job, I'd let them know in no uncertain terms.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Eye Shooter p.opus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Another thing you can do is contract with UPS or FedEx directly and then issue the seller a "call tag" so that the seller simply uses your shipping document to ship the unit to you. Then you can get the seller to drop both insurance and shipping charges.

    You know it's a scam if the customer is unwilling to drop shipping and insurance charges if you pay for them separately with a separate carrier.
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
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    Eye Shooter heima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    I know who this seller is, and they had a good reputation on pachitalk. And mind you, you don't know about this insurance until you are well into the ordering process. It is not stated up front. So it seems times are a changing. Kind of sad, actually.

    I thought about doing the ship through my Fedex or UPS account, but total cost works out being the same as the seller plus their rip-off insurance. Yeah, that 20% is awfully high. I would think for that much insurance, you would get a replacement machine sent to you free, no questions asked, should something happen in transport.

    Oh by the way, this same seller wanted to charge me Virginia sales tax, though I live in California. The seller has no business presence in the state of California. I brought that to their attention and they still wanted to charge me the sales tax.
    Da' Horse!

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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    I really hate to hear this. I am pretty certain I know which company you are talking about and had been hoping to do business with them in the near future.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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    Smile Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Alright so in the interest of preventing future customers from getting screwed (especially new customers), who is this seller? It's for the common good of both the hobby and clients. No reason to keep it a secret. I would certainly want to know if I were considering a purchase of these details before getting my hopes up and going through the order process.
    Last edited by emmadog; 08-19-2013 at 11:14 PM.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    I cannot say with 100% certainty, but I only know of one seller based in Virginia. I truly hope I am wrong though. Hopefully Frekken Tekken will shed a little more light on this.
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by heima View Post

    I thought about doing the ship through my Fedex or UPS account, but total cost works out being the same as the seller plus their rip-off insurance. Yeah, that 20% is awfully high. I would think for that much insurance, you would get a replacement machine sent to you free, no questions asked, should something happen in transport.
    I guess it's me, but I have a hard time seeing a problem then. If, for example, they were charging a shipping and insurance fee that was much greater than what I could get from UPS or FedEx myself, then I would say that "yeah" they're greedy ****ards. But if after doing research I find that it would cost me just as much to pay for it shipped and ensure it directly through UPS or FedEx, then how do you think they are ripping the customer off?

    I'm sure they get a little bit of a discount from the shipper due to the bulk business that they do with their shipping company, but I doubt that it is overly excessive.

    However if you are positive that they are totally screwing you over even though you can't get it done independently any cheaper, then Frank at Akimono.com has re-opened for business, his prices are comparable to the "virginia crew" and I just received my CR Yamato 1 and it was in great condition and he did not charge me for insurance. I didn't read if it was an option or not, but you can go with him and he can probably source whatever you need.
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
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    Fever Hunter FREKKEN TEKKEN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by Card Shark View Post
    I cannot say with 100% certainty, but I only know of one seller based in Virginia. I truly hope I am wrong though. Hopefully Frekken Tekken will shed a little more light on this.
    I would like to shed a little more light on this subject but unfortunately the more I read about the vendors policies the less I seem to understand.
    I refrained from immediately naming the vendor because I wanted to give them a chance to respond themselves and offer some sort of explanation that I had overlooked that would seem more fair and just. I always assumed that import companies, local vendors etc. would most likely check in on a regular basis with places such as P.T. to keep informed and the market that buys and supports their merchandise. I do and I'm just an addicted member and shopper. I was trying to place my order with 5 Brothers and I still have questions myself concerning their ordering requirements.
    I thought I was beginning to understand until Heima gave some of their details concerning their order and explanation about several different ways to ship and insure. I live only half as far across the country so I don't know if my situation would be the same expense wise? I went into their sight a second time last night and the first time they quoted $56.00 one time and $60.00 the second time for the Insurance?
    Hopefully they will join into this forum and shed some light on all of this for all of us!
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Ok guys, before we put carrots on their noses and see if they weigh as much as a duck, I think there needs to be a little perspective.

    First, We know these machines are practically given away in Japan. I've seen photos, as I am sure some of you have, of piles of Vader Star Wars machines just sitting in a junk pile. Japanese law only allows parlors to have these machines for a year, and after that they're trashed.

    That being said, getting something shipped to the US from Japan is excessively expensive. Anyone who as worked with Juno and YPYahoo knows this. A 2000 yen cell you buy on YPYahoo ends up costing you 10 times that much once you pay everyone and get it shipped over here.

    Mosheste, one of our forum members recently dropped over $1600.00 USD to have an AKB48 machine shipped from directly Japan to Israel. He recently tried selling one of his machines here in the US on Ebay, and the cheapest shipping he could arrange to the US was $300.00.

    Places like Five Brothers and Akimono probably do get some breaks on shipping, but they are still paying through the nose to get that "scrap" from Japan to the US. After all, a Pachinko machine takes a set amount of space on the boat. I would wager that almost 80% of what I pay these guys is compensation for the shipping.

    Once they receive the machine, they have to clean them up, install a transformer, test and pack them. Not to mention their cost of doing business such as website management, and of course the nice 6% overhead that Paypal charges for their transaction fee.

    I recently checked prices over at Akimono . His "sale" has ended so now his machines are approx $100 more than Five Brothers. But it appears that Akimono doesn't charge insurance charge. That could be because he "wraps" that into the machine cost.

    Regardless of how it's itemized, even if I pay $400 to $500 for a machine, I realize that I am paying mostly for shipping charges from Japan to the US. Even though the actual cost of the hardware is minimal, I find it difficult to believe that places like Akimono or Five Brothers are making much more than $100 per unit profit. And I am probably overestimating their margins.

    If I go to UPS or FedEx and arrange for shipping and it costs me just as much to get that service directly from the shipper as it does from the seller, I don't see a problem here. Now if FedEx or UPS quoted me say "half", then I'd have a real problem with that and say that they are soaking the consumer and would classify that as being "absurd". But as someone else already mentioned, that's not the case here.

    So we could put these guys up on the scale and see if they're made of wood, but the bottom line is that I have two beautiful modern pachinko machines that are unique and relatively "rare" compared to other memorabilia. A fact that would have not been possible were it not for people like Five Brothers and Frank at Akimono.com. If I'm willing to give my waitress her 15-20% tip for serving me my lunch, I can certainly allow an importer their 15-20% profit margin for the hours of sheer enjoyment I get on my Yamato or Star Wars pachinko machines that I never would have gotten otherwise.
    Last edited by p.opus; 08-20-2013 at 08:40 AM.
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    It is a bummer for fans of moderns that there's so few importers. Each buyer will have to decide if the additional fees are worth it. To me, if they are in fact charging more for insurance because they can and charging a VA sales tax on everybody, then that's unacceptable. It doesn't matter how slim the profit margins are or how happy someone is to get a machine. It's just wrong. If the margins are that slim then they should just charge more for the machines and be up front about it.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    I definitely don't agree with adding VA sales tax to orders that are shipping outside of VA. That would be something I would have a problem with and that even goes against what they say on their website, so I would indeed have a beef with that.
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by p.opus View Post

    First, We know these machines are practically given away in Japan. I've seen photos, as I am sure some of you have, of piles of Vader Star Wars machines just sitting in a junk pile. Japanese law only allows parlors to have these machines for a year, and after that they're trashed.
    As a non US member, thats what bugs me about sellers in Japan trying to sell to the world market. $300 and upwards for a 3-5 year old machine PLUS worldwide shipping, when you can pick the machine up for probably $50 or less if you look around. Now thats a heck of a mark up,

    As for the sells tax, I've had to argue over VAT on international goods. I should not have to pay VAT in another country, But people still try.

    Shipping insurance. Might be a tough one to argue. If the prices work out the same as fedex or UPS, then it is probably worth it, However, it would be better if they just listed the shipping cost as a total and said insurance is included rather than adding it on at the end, as a complusery cost. Thats what makes people feel cheated, They see the cost, Think thats what it will cost, only to get stung with additional charges.
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    Eye Shooter p.opus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    As a non US member, thats what bugs me about sellers in Japan trying to sell to the world market. $300 and upwards for a 3-5 year old machine PLUS worldwide shipping, when you can pick the machine up for probably $50 or less if you look around. Now thats a heck of a mark up..

    I agree with you there DC. If the reseller is located in Japan and then still selling them for 300 dollars plus shipping they are putting one hell of a mark up on them.

    I'm not sure US based re-sellers, (e.g. akimono or 5 bros.) or European re-sellers (dragonfly amusement) are doing this. These re-sellers have to get them over here, so they are paying the Japan/US or Japan/European shipping up front and then have to tack it on the final sales price.

    Of course if you had a business that ran directly out of Japan, you'd be able to undercut almost anyone else since you would literally be picking up the machines off the rubbish tip.

    I'm not sure though how much customs and stuff you would need to pay when dealing from a Japanese located business.
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    This may help explain a bit of confusion I ran into with Five Brothers awhile back. A member ordered a Biohazzard pachislo from them and had it shipped. This is a machine I have been wanting and so I decided to contact them although instead of shipping, I intended to drive a couple of hours nd pick it up. The price quote to me was higher. I explained that I was serious about buying but wanted the same price they had sold the other one for just a week prior. They responded that they only had one or two of the machine left and felt they would get their price for it. The price honestly wasn't bad but I decided not to buy on principle.

    The experience did not completely turn me off to them. I still hope to make the trip to their showroom at some point.
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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Absurd insurance charges !

    isn't that the same idea airlines have when they sell their tickets
    Ian #UKPachinko

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