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Thread: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

  1. #1
    Blind Shooter infiniteblue's Avatar
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    Default Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    After seeing a few threads about battle counters on the forums here, it sounds like a nifty idea, though with the frequency they seem to appear and the potential for compatibility issues I'm not sure if I'd ever find one.

    From what I've been reading and a very basic knowledge of electronics, I've started thinking that it might be a reasonably challenging project to take on. So I'm starting to do a bit of research into what I need to know about the target machine (Newgin Trio)

    The machine itself has a 5 pin jack that I've been able to conclusively identify as the output pins, in part due to Google Translate, but also thanks to daverob's FAQ stickied in this thread. The pins are labeled "情報出力", which indicates "Information Output" (I spent a few hours counting strokes and using wikipedia to match up the characters. Gives you an appreciation for the amount of memorization the Japanese do for their 2000+ ideograms!)
    DSC_0156.jpg
    My machine has a handy reference sticker in Japanese, which is great, but I don't know Japanese I've been able to figure out the common pin, but the translations provided by Google Translate leave me a bit confused as to what the signal from the pin corresponds to.

    DSC_0155.jpg

    The sticker has the following information:

    情報端子 (トリオ) (Information Terminal (Trio))
    1 情報 コ モソ (Information Common)
    2 普通図柄作動ゲート (Normal Operating Gate Design – Start gate?)
    3 特殊情報 (Specific information - ?)
    4 普通図柄変動回数 (Average number of times the symbol fluctuation - Normal chance of jackpot?)
    5 大入賞口入賞個数 (Large number of prize winning mouth - Fever mode?)

    If there's anyone out there who's a bit more familiar with the Japanese language who could clarify these for me, it'd be much appreciated

    Per daverob's thread, I noticed that there are a few different implementations for output pins, and unfortunately I have not been able to find any sign of kanji indicating what type of outputs are present. My guess is that they're opto-isolators, but I can't be certain at this point. I did attach a multi-meter to the pins and don't see any voltage off common + any other pin (but of course, I can't actually trigger any events without breaking out the pins to a board where I don't have to worry about possible shorts.) It does lend itself towards being a switch-based solution, either optoisolator or relay.

    Also, I believe that the standard in Japan is that the positive rail is common? I know over here, common is often used interchangeably with ground.

    I'm only getting started on this, and probably won't be making any significant progress any time soon, but if anyone has any experiences with translations or even doing their own DIY counters, I'd love to hear it.

    --InfiniteBlue

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  3. #2
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Here's my attempt at a more meaningful translation than google

    情報端子 (jouhou tanshi) Information/Data Terminal
    1 情報コ モソ (jouhou komon) Information/Data Common
    2 普通図柄作動ゲート (hutsuu zugara sadou geeto) Normal Design Operation Gate
    3 特殊情報 (tokushu jouhou) Special information
    4 普通図柄変動回数 (hutsu zugara hendou kaisuu) Normal Design Change Counter
    5 大入賞口入賞個数 (oo nyuushou kuti nyuushou kosuu) Big Prize Door Winning Counter

    My guess is that 2 is the start pocket output, 4 is kakuhen output and 5 is Bonus/Fever. Not sure what 3 is for.

    The common connection is likely to be a voltage (ie not ground) if they are voltage outputs, or it's likely to be ground if they are contact/switch outputs. Without examining more of the machine, it's not going to be easy to tell which is which. Best bet is to trace the connections back and see where they come from, if they are relays or opto-isolators then they're probably contact outputs, if it's a transistor or buffer chip then they're most likely to be voltage.

    I've been playing around with the idea of building my own battle counter. So far my thoughts have been to base it around a Raspberry Pi single board computer attached to a cheap LCD display (probably one of the 'reversing camera' type screens off eBay). There's enough GPIO inputs on the RPi to connect to the pachinko's battle counter outputs, with a few left over for triggering some nice bright LEDs for an extra light show during fever rounds. Of course finding the time to actually have a go at this is proving to be the hardest part.

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    Blind Shooter infiniteblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Hmm... I almost forgot about the Raspberry Pi having GPIO ports. That would definitely be more customizable, especially from a graphics perspective and it'd involve working in an environment I'm a bit more familiar with. I could also network multiple machines if I got a working prototype.

    Unfortunately it seems that the Canadian distributor is sold out right now. It may have to wait. In the meantime, I can probably do some base experimentation with my Arduino board to see if I can figure out the type of output being generated. At least that'd give me a good starting point when the product becomes available again.

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Looking forward to see what you come up with.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
    Pachiholic and Proud!!! サメ

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Another solution might be to look into adding a GAKU counter. I remember someone posting about adding one to a modern machine. I will see if I can find the thread.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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    Fever Hunter tommy4132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Quote Originally Posted by Card Shark View Post
    Another solution might be to look into adding a GAKU counter. I remember someone posting about adding one to a modern machine. I will see if I can find the thread.
    I was the one who hooked up a GAKU counter to a newer modern. The problem is those counters are really limited. If you have a daverob dongle hooked up, your win sensor is going to counter balls loaned as winners. This is why I actually placed my win sensor outside the machine. When I won big, I hit the overflow button and then diverted the balls pass the sensor. This allowed me to keep track of how many balls I would have turned in and not go back into play. To me a counter that could keep track of how many balls loaned, shot and won would be cool. I am however not capable of doing this, so maybe these much smarter guys will come up with something cool.

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    Blind Shooter infiniteblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy4132 View Post
    I was the one who hooked up a GAKU counter to a newer modern. The problem is those counters are really limited. If you have a daverob dongle hooked up, your win sensor is going to counter balls loaned as winners. This is why I actually placed my win sensor outside the machine. When I won big, I hit the overflow button and then diverted the balls pass the sensor. This allowed me to keep track of how many balls I would have turned in and not go back into play. To me a counter that could keep track of how many balls loaned, shot and won would be cool. I am however not capable of doing this, so maybe these much smarter guys will come up with something cool.
    In my case, the Trio doesn't have any concept of ball loan, so the signals I'd be seeing would be strictly relating to the game. Makes it a bit simpler as such too

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Does the payout on your machine vary or is it a consistent # of balls. For example, do you get 15 balls per bonus or does that number vary for different bonuses hit?
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
    Pachiholic and Proud!!! サメ

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Be careful about hooking up the outputs to anything that doesn't have protected inputs, as some voltage output machines will send up to 30v out of these pins. If I'm unsure about a machine, I'll hook up a Bi-colour LED with a 2k7 series resistor to each of the outputs and have a play. If they light up or flash, then I know it's voltage output and the colour tells me which polarity it is. If I get no results with this method, then I'll try with my multimeter and listen for its continuity buzzer.

    If you decide to use a Raspberry Pi for a battle counter project, then try to leave the I2C pins and one of the GPIO pins free. I'm playing around with remote control of one of my dongles from a RPi, and it might be possible to add this to a battle counter so it can also display 'balls loaned' when used with a dongle, and 'balls won' when used with one of the Gaku type sensors. BTW I do have a spare Raspberry Pi, an early 256MB model B if you can't wait for your local distributor.

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  21. #11
    Blind Shooter infiniteblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Quote Originally Posted by daverob View Post
    Be careful about hooking up the outputs to anything that doesn't have protected inputs, as some voltage output machines will send up to 30v out of these pins. If I'm unsure about a machine, I'll hook up a Bi-colour LED with a 2k7 series resistor to each of the outputs and have a play. If they light up or flash, then I know it's voltage output and the colour tells me which polarity it is. If I get no results with this method, then I'll try with my multimeter and listen for its continuity buzzer.

    If you decide to use a Raspberry Pi for a battle counter project, then try to leave the I2C pins and one of the GPIO pins free. I'm playing around with remote control of one of my dongles from a RPi, and it might be possible to add this to a battle counter so it can also display 'balls loaned' when used with a dongle, and 'balls won' when used with one of the Gaku type sensors. BTW I do have a spare Raspberry Pi, an early 256MB model B if you can't wait for your local distributor.
    Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on starting with the multimeter for the sake of checking for voltage once I'm able to get the pins down to a breadboard. Funny enough my multimeter doesn't actually have a continuity tester, so I'll likely use the bi-colour LED and resistor method if the multimeter doesn't show anything.

    This machine only has the 4 pins, so I don't think I'll be running out of pins for this project. If I were to get a more modern one, then I'd have to think about it, I'm sure.

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    Blind Shooter infiniteblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    Quote Originally Posted by Card Shark View Post
    Does the payout on your machine vary or is it a consistent # of balls. For example, do you get 15 balls per bonus or does that number vary for different bonuses hit?
    This machine pays out 7 balls per pocket. I don't know if it pays out more during a fever though.

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    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    The GAKU counter is pretty simple but would be able to count balls shot and balls won, it also tracks playing time and whether or not you are winning more than shot. Pretty basic data however they are inexpensive and you could tie the sensors in to your project.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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  27. #14
    Thread Killer musky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thinking about DIY Battle Counters...

    The Gaku counters were designed to be use in full cyclic machines where you would not have "loaned" balls or Daverob's dongle. But I have set one up using the "win" connection on the back of a machine. I don't think a pulse is sent out on that connection for loaned balls. Since I don't have one of Daverob's dongles I can't test that theory. Connecting a Gaku Pachicounter to an older Newgin pachinko , the thread showing how I connected the counter to the win connection.
    Pachislos: Alien, Azteca Returns, Death Valley, Guts, Gamera HGV, Hokuto No Ken, Jet Set Radio, Mephisto, Oasis, Speed Racer, Surprise, Twenty Seven, Thunderbirds, Wild Wolf
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