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Thread: My Arrange ball...

  1. #21
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt Teddy View Post
    Well I guess I should look at my own pictures. Where the Jan Ball is on my machine is lit. I have the same placard as yours.

    If you just put in four balls in a row and quit and reset does it just pay one? If it does it is working correctly.

    The lights on top should conform to the lit lights.
    Four in a row pays one on mine...

    I have a set back but first more I learned,

    It will pay out up to ten with the board switch where it is now and five if I move that switch one of Emmadogs jackpot line ups paid 10 the one with balls along the edges not on the corners.
    I will retest all the jackpots and post the winnings, I need to relocate the machine from my shop to the bedroom.

    Now my problem I bought and installed the lamps from sky craft they were 28 volts they look just like the LT Teddy 2187 lamp,
    However, in my machine they are way way too bright, they are being overloaded, I checked the volts all my lamps get about 35 volts, the lamps that came with my machine while they "look" like these new ones the 4 from the matrix that work are 1/2 as intense as the new ones, the new ones also get way too hot too. ( overdriven ) but look at my pictures the lamps that came with it are doing fine.

    The lamps across the top of my machine also get at 35 volts,

    So is something wrong with my lamp output voltage?, I would have to second guess that because the lamps there work right, not too bright, goldilocks just right, if they were only 28 volts then they too would be too bright from being overdriven.
    Please someone with a Jan-ball let me know your volts to your matrix.

    The thought crossed my mind to use LED's, the drawback is each LED would needs it's own resistor, running one resistor on the negative really wouldn't work well as you have a varying amount of LED's on at a given time. ( the resistor for one LED is different than 16 LED's )
    So to add a resistor to each LED then get it into that little socket, tricky, ...hum...anyone else done matrix lamp mods?
    Or know of 35-40 volt lamps.
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  2. #22
    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    I believe Emmadog had converted to LEDs. I was planning on converting mine and consulting him before I start.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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  3. #23
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Well, it's not a big task my concern is how much or little you have to mod the original board, at one time the plug on mine was used on other things and if I had that plug I would make a special new board for the LED's and leave the stock board unmoldested,
    I have done tons of custom stuff with RC things, I will have to look closer at my board simple pins might be an answer
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  4. #24
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    I had an electrical engineer design LED modules for a couple of my arrangeballs because I'm done dealing with those little incandescent bulbs. LEDs out perform them in every way and give off the same yellowish glow if you warm whites. I gave him all the electrical specs plus he is familiar with these types of machines. As you can see in the pic it's an LED with its leads encased in rigid white tubing then soldered onto a circuit board that contains a resistor and a Zener (I think) diode. The other two objects are the electrical contacts for the two pins coming out of the existing board. No mods to the board are necessary. Modifying the silicone cups to hold the LED and resistor is a pain but can be done. With the amount of voltage you're getting, I think you'd have to use resistors with a higher ohm value obviously but also higher wattage.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1360892902.169446.jpg
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  6. #25
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    We were adding LED's to RC planes before is was the norm, nice work your tech did, yes, I would need different resistors than he used, but did you happen to test and know what your jans balls flow volt-wise to the lamps?

    I was thinking "if" I used LED's I would put red in the corners.
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  7. #26
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    I love messing with LEDs. I've got a couple RC planes and I'd like to get some LED kits for those.
    I don't remember the voltage on my machine. Actually I never tested it but I like the idea of red in the corners.
    I do remember placing some bulbs in the playfield cel (mine had lights in the cel outside the matrix) and they burned very bright. So I can't conclusively say it was a higher voltage than most machines but it seems that way.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

  8. #27
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    I love messing with LEDs. I've got a couple RC planes and I'd like to get some LED kits for those.
    I don't remember the voltage on my machine. Actually I never tested it but I like the idea of red in the corners.
    I do remember placing some bulbs in the playfield cel (mine had lights in the cel outside the matrix) and they burned very bright. So I can't conclusively say it was a higher voltage than most machines but it seems that way.
    LED's have come so far and gotten so cheap they make it too fun to play with them, at skycraft they had little rubber caps in red and a few other colors for bulbs, they were about 5-7mm a hair too big for the stock lamps.

    So I have been grinding on this voltage thing, my worry is IF something is allowing too much voltage to pass could it burn out something important on my board.
    I am a bit relieved that you say you have seen incandescents burn bright on your machine, I was hunting on Google and at the moment the commen voltage of lamps that look like the 2187 is 24 volts so then in my machine slamming them with 35 volts is gonna make them way bright, get too hot melt the matrix and burn out way sson, I dig you not liking incandescent.

    Then another piece of the puzzle the few bulbs that came with mine that worked are 1/2 as bright, so I have a feeling that perhaps these were special bulbs with the higher voltage around 35 volts, the 2187 look like them and fit and work and so few of us are messing with these no one raised a stink until now...mostly a guess right now,

    So on your slick little LED's on the board how do they plug in to the main board?
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  9. #28
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Those size bulbs do come in several voltages. I've got a bunch Latin around in about 4 different voltage values since all my machines have different requirements. That became moot as I switched over to LEDs.
    The way they attach is that there's 2 holes drilled into the base of the module. This allows the 2 pins to come up and touch the metal contacts on each one.
    Also, I believe the diode is to prevent the LED from lighting inadvertently. On some circuits there's a background voltage flowing to keep the filaments warm so that lights that flash and off in normal operation will light up faster. LEDs are so efficient that they will come on dimly from this. The engineer that made mine didn't explain his reason for the diode but that's how it was explained to me as their likely use from someone else.
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  11. #29
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Well I'm stuck,

    The new lamps I bought are 28 volt this is too low my machine that has 35-36 volts going to the lamps in the matrix and I can not find a bulb in 34-37 volts even close to the matrix bulbs, I can't even find golf cart lamps that would work they are 48 volts and would then not burn as burn as bright with my 35 volts to them.
    At the moment no one with a Jan ball can check their Matrix voltage to see if mine is normal or high, my bet normal because the original lamps that do work burn perfect.

    I dig what emmadog had done, and when I looked at the flat connector on the matrix board I though well I will score another connector and make a new matrix board with LED's but I can't find that connector either and I really find it hard to believe it was made special for these machines, it looks generic.

    Jan Ball connectors.jpg

    I also need 3 ( or more ) of the little silicone lamp sockets I would pay a fair price but it sounds like I will be making them, I have an idea on that.

    So right now I am stuck which was to go I can't use the 28 volt lamps they will melt the matrix face,
    I could make the individual LED's like Emmadog has but would like to do them a bit different,

    Hum...
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  12. #30
    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Oops...forgot,
    Emmadog, when you had your tech make the LED sockets you had to give him a voltage or he got it from somewhere to know which Resistor to use,
    Do you have any idea what voltage he used when he made them,
    I know how to figure out what resistor for what LED and at what voltage but I'm curious what was used on yours and it was your Jan ball ...correct?
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

  13. #31
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Yeah I gave him all the info he needed. Number of lights, all the data off the transformer, etc.
    I didn't do LEDs for the jan ball, I did them for my other machines which are all Satomis and Taiyos. I don't remember what the voltages are off hand but it seems they're all different. Even among the same brand and generation of machine. I'll look up some of my old emails and see what I can find. If not, I'll go measure the voltages directly.
    Here's pics of a couple of the machines that the engineer made LEDs for and pics of them installed.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1361122823.762699.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1361122840.614069.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1361122853.403084.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1361122867.957453.jpg
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  15. #32
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    The silicone cups are very hard to come by. I bought some off YJA awhile back but have since given all my extras away. An alternate solution is to strip the insulation off wire of the appropriate gauge. Cut the insulation to the proper length and slide it over the wire leads from the bulbs. Then slip each lead over the metal prongs coming off the board.
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