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Thread: My Arrange ball...

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    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default My Arrange ball...

    I really didn't know for sure until yesterday my wife scored the arrange ball off ebay, ( I suspected but she is good )
    It was like breaking into a sealed tomb of some Egyptian pharos getting through all the packing,

    I was, am very excited but of course it doesn't fully work,
    It's very clean and nice, and I guess if I knew what some things meant I would be better off,
    I have several pictures to show what I am talking about.

    Jan Ball front off.jpg

    First I learned is while the tokens that came with it "look" like Pachislo tokens they are not,
    These are bigger while the Pachislo will work the us dollar coins work too ( smaller tokens fall thru )
    This alarms me, does that mean there are no vending machine that accept us dollar coins, I get them as change but never though if any machine accepts them...anywway I have been collecting tokens for years have 10's of 1000's I could sort out a mismatch of the right size but I like how the us dollars feel and will hit my bank for enough to play.
    For now it's Pachislo.
    The machines I used to play years ago had you pay to play with a normal brass token but paid with the aluminum tokens the machines where electrons how did they pull that off? I don't think I could play with one token and get with another on my machine.

    I drop in one of the tokens that came with it and nothing as far as resetting or dumping balls into play, the token runs down and drops in the jackpot tube
    So I dumped the balls into play by working the solenoid by hand,
    I couldn't resist just playing it a couple times like this, but to see what lights work on the center martix I dropped a ball into each pocket 1-16 then that middle crown a picture shows that most lights do not work, seeing these are micro switches I can check if juice is getting out to the lamp which appear to be a solder to replace situation.

    Jan Ball front all bottom pockets.jpg


    I then pushed that red button and it hammered out 5 tokens and that solenoid is a loud one, I very well might have to rig a bell,
    Then when I tried to add a token to the coin slot it spit out 5 more payout tokens, this was repeated several times dropping a token into the coin slot and it spitting 5 tokens until it ran the token jackpot tube out enough to trigger that low token lamp.

    Some of this post I wrote last night, today I put a volt meter to each lamp leads all the center matrix get volts in the mid 20's so burned out bulbs, also if you look at the lamps across the top all work the two on the ends that do not work have volts but no bulbs, will missing or burnt bulbs affect the machine?

    I know several of you guys are gurus with these and might have ideas where I should start but do a little arrange ball 101 for me,
    What do the buttons on the side do, one red and four with the same numbers as upper pockets,
    The one high pocket has "B" on it is that a special bonus or same as hitting the middle pocket with the crown?
    What do all the different lamps tell us and up on the upper left is a green "jan ball" light is doesn't work nor get volts above it is a red and green light that I have seen both come on, on the upper right is a red lamp and green lamp which both also work.

    Jan Ball upper left light red.JPGJan Ball curcuit board.jpgJan Ball curcuit wiring cut.JPGJan Ball inside back.jpgJan Ball inside front.jpgJan Ball side buttons.jpg

    So the big issues are, when you pay your coin the balls do not dump for play, the upper right green lamp goes off and on with adding tokens,
    After I force a ball dump by hand and play the game, I hit the red button it will dump 5 tokens,
    Then if I add a token to the coin slot seems the second token make the machine dump tokens until the tube runs low.
    What is the black switch on the curcuit board for seems it doesn't do anything.

    Many thanks all for any help.
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

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    be vewy vewy quiet im hunting pachis... Lt Teddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Well I have this machine at home but I do Have a jan ball here.

    The lights on the top are as follows. The left two lights are for the bonus button on the middle of the machine. If a ball goes in the bonus the left light comes on an then you can
    pick one of the bonus buttons and it will light the bulb on the matrix. The light next to it goes on after you pick the number.

    If you drop the ball in the center with the crown it starts the lights on the top of the machine blinking from left to right and if you push the button on the lower right of the machine it locks on the number that you pushed the button on.

    Now the problem with the upper right two lights. One is the low coin light which is the upper light. The lower light is the game over light. That is your major problem with this machine. It is like my dragon machine it shows that the game is over so therefore it does not payout. Now do not misunderstand me, yours pays out but it only pays out when you push the red button on top of the left side. What you need to determine in my opinion is if you put four balls in the top four and then push the payout button, what it pays out. You can do this with the middle four matrix and see if you push the red button what it pays out.

    I cannot get the game over light to go off on mine. The lights are easy to replace.

    In my opinion what you need to do.

    Get the matrix lights replaced and try individual jackpots. Try and figure out what needs to be done to turn off the game over light. I have tried alot of things but have not been able to get mine off. My dragon thankfully drops the balls with a token and lights all of the lights. I hope this helps alittle and let me know if you have any more questions that I might have missed.
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    .One last thought on this machine that you might consider after seeing if it will pay individual jackpots is to rig a way to drop the balls. I would try and fix it before I did that. You will see a switch on the computer board on the bottom left. I do not remember where mine is set but I do know that both of my working janballs pay off ten tokens. You might try and moving that switch and see what happens. I will be able to help you quite a bit more when I get back home to the original machine. Hope this all helps.

    another point is moparformances adjusted all of the coin units on my jan balls and they work on tokens. Dollars are nicer but expensive
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    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Okay, I went and tried what you said,

    Bonus ball, it will work once per game, the first ball will trigger top left green lamp and allow me to pick a number from the 4 number buttons to the left then green goes off red comes on.
    A second ball in bonus has no effect.

    A ball in crown lights the crown in the middle of the top but no lights sequence,
    My machine has no buttons on the right,
    Only the ones on the left, it should show in the pictures.
    Perhaps mine doesn't have the sequence feature.

    The red low coin light upper right seems to work fine,
    My green upper right light does go off when I insert a token it takes a second like it thought about it.
    Balls placed in 1-4 the top row on matrix gave 2 tokens when red button was pressed,
    the next row 5-8 only paid 1 token.
    Sounds like if I understand you your green game over lamp never goes off, mine does go off with a token.

    I have a place nearby that sells all kinds of small odd lamps, what voltage are these? I was reading 25 on some and up top around 30 and what is the upper left lamp with "jan ball" on it for?
    The center matrix board unplugs so it shouldn't be too hard to replace the bad bulbs.

    According to the markings on the ball dump solenoid it's 24 volts, I placed a volt meter on it and worked the coin switch, nothing, so on the board I see what appear to be two large and several small relays, I would think they would use a replay with a solenoid but either way do you happen to know what circuit it's on?

    The black switch on the board seems to have no effect and the most the machine has ever paid out is 5 tokens, but look at my coin tube I wouldn't get too many 10 token jackpots without running dry
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Well if I remember right a ball in the crown on my jan ball at home gives a game. I will have to check when I get home. I do not remember the payouts for sure on mine but testing each row should tell you I think that the diagonal rows pay one. the horizontal ones pay two and the up and down pays one and the four in the middle usually play 3. Give it a try and see. Moparformances has a jan ball and you need to post a picture of your matrix with the lights showing and then we can probably tell you which bulbs it uses. Mopar and emmadog are good for the electrical not me. I do buy my bulbs from bulbtown.com. I am just speculating but I think it might be a 2187 for the matrix.
    The upper left light with jan ball I think is to just light the jan ball decal? That one I will have to check when I get home.

    Electrical is way beyond me. And I am sure yours does not have the sequence feature as that machine should have all of the upper lights lit when you have all of the pockets with a ball in it. Each set of payouts in a row and the middle four should light one of the lights on the top.

    The bonus light does only work once a game.

    Now just so I understand what you are doing I would like to know if you reset the game and just drop in any four balls, when you push the red button for game over does it chunk just twice for for horizontal. It should just do one for vertical and diagonal and three for the four middle.

    All Jan balls that I have CHUNK their payouts.
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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    First, congrats on your machine.
    It would be easy to have the machine start a game with one type of token and pay another. Basically the game start tokens would just be diverted to an area other than the coin payout tube. And the parlor owner fills the payout tube with whatever. Also, these machines were designed to take in more than they paid so lots of jackpots didn't happen. It's been a long time since yours was in commercial operation so someone has probably tweaked the nails by now.
    I had a jan ball similar to yours and it had the same bonus feature but a ball in the crown added one to the score IIRC.
    I would double check the game start micro switch for continuity and also carefully unplug and plug in all the circuit board connections.
    If bulbs are burned out for the matrix the machine still "knows" there's a ball in the pocket(s). At least that's how my jan ball was and all other arrangeballs I've dealt with.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    please post a clear pic of the payout placard
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Congratulations on the arrangeball. I am glad you were able to get your hands on one.
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
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    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Thanks again guys,

    In my other hobbies I rebuild and build custom cars and trikes, I especially dig kit cars , vettes, and trikes,
    We own www.priceofhistoys.com
    At the moment I have a valkyrie kit car something of a poor mans GT40 waiting for me to get her running, a 69 BB corvette convertible waiting for a frame off and my current trike, I just rewired, I also worked in the largest RC shop here and did R&D for weed boats so "that" type wiring I can do it's what I call solid state, the old IC chips in these machines that I am not savvy with,
    Things like replacing the lamps no problem and yes, that part number you gave appears to be the lamp but I first want to try to score them at skycraft near me,
    Skycraft Parts & Surplus, Inc. yes, the joint has a UFO on top and a missile on the sign, I have been going there almost 30 years.

    On that number strip across the top while mine doesn't sequence it does have the last two lamps in my picture where they are not lit, power is going to them just no bulbs there, not sure if there ever was,
    So I am still a bit fuzzy on what the top bar of lights tells us,
    Also do you have a guess what would make the Logo green light come on.
    Jan Ball Logo.jpg

    For the payout test so far So far it has had no issues using Pachislo tokens, the couple right tokens that came with it and about 8 us dollar coins are all mixed and like Emmadog pointed out it doesn't win too much, while the ones I recall playing in the game room had two token types for my home use I do not know if that would be fun or just annoying.


    Each is done on a fresh reset, and I will try the Four corners and four inners tomorrow but I want to get the lamps and fix that, the small board the lamps are on just unplugs and unscrews no biggie.

    Four random balls no rows crown only = 1 payout token
    Four horizontal balls in row 5-6-7-8 = 1 payout token
    Four vertical balls in row 2-6-10-14 = 1 payout token
    Four Diagonal ball in a row 1-6-11-16 = 1 payout token

    You sure that it should payout ten?

    If I win a jackpot and do not press the red button and drop a token in the coin slot whatever I won will then pop out in the jackpot tray but it doesn't auto-pay at games end perhaps it's not made to.

    I couldn't believe it when I went in to do the tests above for some reason I looked closer at the ball dump solenoid and jaw dropped when one wire wasn't soldered on, then I see that neither wire is soldered on...I whip out my handy Weller and damned it the ball dump doesn't work perfect now, so all that is wrong at the moment is the burnt out lamps and no auto jackpot payout ( if mine has that )
    And the questions I have about the logo lamp and what the top row of lights mean.

    That game over lamp, when I drop in a token the balls dump and then after that the game over lamp goes out, it's a delay of sorts.

    That loud hard heavy payout thunk has gotta go...lol, a bell or something, but it sounds like it's breaking itself.
    The other mod I would like to do is add a few LED's I have some UV purple that would glow cool from the play ball tray area in there.
    "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams"

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    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Sorry...Mopar what did you want a good shot of?
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    The top bar of lights tells how many tokens you are owed. Some companies used this method and some used an LED readout.
    Sounds like its paying out correctly when you start a new game. The machine can't auto pay since it doesn't know when all 16 balls are shot. I.E., multiple balls can land in one pocket-machine has no way of knowing that.
    The payout solenoid is very loud on some machines and quieter on others. These machines are designed to operate on 100V so 120V here makes them pull more forcefully. All my machines are powered from a step down transformer because I don't like that noise either plus its what it was designed to use.
    Mopar wanted a pic of the instruction card as almost always have a diagram of the winning combos but I don't see that on yours.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    As far as payout quantities go, your machine may only pay out 5 no matter how many tokens you've earned. I have machines that pay max amounts of 5,10, and 15 tokens. Not much info on why there were limits. Could have been the location and local laws, parlor's choice, etc. I tend to think it was because of laws. I've also seen the same models have different payout maximums as well. Another interesting footnote is that some machines have adjustable win options. I have several Taiyos that allow you to not only adjust the payout max from 10 to 15 but I can enable or disable paying out on diagonals and the four corners and also how much each row, column, etc, awards the player. This is all done by a dip switch.
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    On your picture of your last post. The two side by side lights work on the left one comes on when the ball drops in the bonus pocket and then when you pick the bonus number the right one comes on. The one two and three lights across the top come on as you make a score. In other words the top four across should light one of those lights and all other payouts should light a light. when all of my pockets are lit and the crown is lit all of the lights at the top are on. Their is no game over. The red button on the left is for you to automatically payout after playing as many balls as you want and it will leave the lights on. If not you should just be able to drop a coin in and it then resets the balls. As far as the Jan Ball on the upper left their is no light behind mind and is as far as i can see just for decoration.

    Try handfeeding a ball into each pocket starting on the upper left and going across till you do all four rows. As you get the first row lit one of the two numbers in the middle should light and as you move down you should light each of the two lights. When you go across the bottom each of the one lights should work. When done all should be lit if the bulbs work.

    Their is no autopay. The reason for the red button for the parlour was so that you could get your tokens and leave the machine. Other wise you would have to play until you lost. My machine pays out well. I got it from Big Dog and tweaked the nails very little. It is about a 100 per cent payer.

    Mopar wanted to get a picture of the payout sheet on the front lower left of the machine.
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    Fever Hunter The13bats's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    I didn't get to go get my lamps today but will tomorrow, but after removing the matrix lamp board I learned the lamps are NOT soldered on,
    The have thin hair like wires the board has much stiffer larger leads coming out, then the bulbs have a little cap or base if you will, they feel like silicone and have two tiny holes in their bottom, you carefully thread the lamp leads thru the holes and pull them to the side when you plug it into the board you get contact.
    If the lamp leads are long trim so they dont short anywhere.

    Teddy,
    I was thinking about your machine that doesn't turn off the game over lamp and how mine works,
    When I drop in the coin the solenoid drops the balls for play, this takes a second as the balls have to fall from the pockets, my game over light stays on until the balls are all in the track for play then pops off,
    It really seems to be on a timed relay on that game over lamp, like don't shoot until the light is off so all the balls had time to load,
    I know there are timed relays but then I assume a IC chip could time out a lamp too.
    I would expect the solenoids all have a relay as they are high draw.
    I realize in real time it's hardly a second but I would use this as food for thought.
    The "sheet" on the form is in Japanese but I will get that pic later tonight.
    My green "jan ball" logo mine has a lamp behind it just don't know what lights it.

    Emmadog,
    You say you mod your units,in that yours run on 100v not 120v I'm confused I thought 120v alternating current went into the transformer ( from wall socket ) and then 28v or 30v or whatever low direct current these things run on come out.
    Well I do believe mine is a 5 machine, there is a little ticket modtly in Japanese that has "5" on it too will post picture,
    When I was putsing around with mine it kept paying 5 tokens for a spell, could mine pay say 10 or 15 but in sets of 5?
    Being able to set the jack pot would be sweet, and I agree it would be a law thing if especially if the tokens had cash valve,
    The ones I used to play the aluminum jackpot tokens were worth 5 prize points, the worker told me it was because the owner didn't believe in free games.
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    The lights you're describing are what almost all of these machines use. The little silicon sockets they go in are hard to find if you need replacements but there are substitutions.
    I haven't modded any of my machines other than converting them to use LEDs. I bought a step down transformer and just simply plug them into the power strips coming off of that.
    I doubt yours pays off in sets of 5. I've never seen that before and the jan ball I had didn't either and it sounds like mine played just like yours.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    The question you have not answered is if you only light four lights and then push the red button does it only chunk two tokens or does it chunk five all of the time. You are right on the delay that is how they work on a jan ball. at least it is resetting. When you get new bulbs you trim the wires alot after they fit thru the sleeve so that they do not short across the board. They are really long. I would not worry about the jan ball light till I get home and look at mine. Your bulb just might be out.

    Let us know about the numbers across the top if they light. That is what tells you how many tokens you won at the end of the game.
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    From above,

    "Four random balls no rows crown only = 1 payout token
    Four horizontal balls in row 5-6-7-8 = 1 payout token
    Four vertical balls in row 2-6-10-14 = 1 payout token
    Four Diagonal ball in a row 1-6-11-16 = 1 payout token"

    When it dumped 2 or 5 or XXX it was when I hit more than one 4 in a row.
    I have yet to check what the for center and four outter pay

    "If the lamp leads are long trim so they don't short anywhere."

    And I did say that all the top lamps light except the last two when do not have bulbs so they really have no way to light...Lol

    Jan Ball front all bottom pockets.jpg


    Here is what I guess Mopar was asking for...

    Jan Ball Jackpot sheet.jpg

    Here is a ticket that was inside the machine...

    Jan Ball inside ticket.jpg

    And here is one from the outside...perhaps means it only pays 5.

    Jan Ball ticket 5.JPG

    And this one of the coin tray, the right side is cut for something, after thinking could it be a pack of smokes and a zippo lighter???

    Jan Ball coin tray.JPG
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    So far so good on the payouts I think. As I mentioned above, I didn't see a payout diagram on your instruction placard. Here's a pic of the one on the machine I had. Try these payouts out and see what happens. You've already got the rows, columns, and diagonals so try just the four corners, outside numbers minus four corners, etc.

    Here's the pic.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1360815545.662263.jpg
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    The light leads have longer wires than are actually needed. When you put them thru the silicone sockets you will see that the wires need to be cut and just about a quarter inch bent over.

    Looking at the lit lights on top I would say that the four center lights light that number three and probably the four corners light the two. It is an easy check as you drop the balls in the middle four the three light should come on. And I think the four corners light the two. The others are for the horizontal and vertical.
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    Default Re: My Arrange ball...

    Well I guess I should look at my own pictures. Where the Jan Ball is on my machine is lit. I have the same placard as yours.

    If you just put in four balls in a row and quit and reset does it just pay one? If it does it is working correctly.

    The lights on top should conform to the lit lights.
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