Powerflash GAKU Counter Install

[CarlW]

What is hooked up to the new transformer? Just the Power Flash? Or the counter and the machine?

Suggestion is to not hook up the lights at first. Hook up the machine and the counter to the new transformer.
The counter has a voltage regulator and can take up to 35V.

That should help by sharing the ground. If that helps, try adding the bulbs back in. If the issue returns, the transformer is too small for both...

Good Luck. :-)

The member that sold the counter (not sure if he designed it) replied to emails as of last December...

[Card Shark]

I have the machine on the new 24V transformer and the counter is using the transformer it came with. I can try to run the counter off the same transformer if 24V will not hurt it.

[CarlW]

It is a 5V counter. The voltage regulator on the counters I have is part number L7805CV. I remember a thread where GAKU said it could be hooked up to 24V, but can not find it... the counter will be fine with 24V.


I'm going to start a new thread with faceplates for the GAKU counter...

[Card Shark]

I will give this a try.

Thank you

[mxfaiman]

Where are you needing to put the capacitor is it on the line to the shot sensor or is it on the line to power? The key thing is to first figure out the exact spot where you are having problems, then check the voltage traveling at that point.


Edit: It looks like Carl has you all set up.

[Card Shark]

I tired running the counter and the machine on the new 24V transformer for the machine. Same problem but more pronounced. Anytime a servo is engaged, either by a ball triggering it or hitting the "cheat" switch, the counter now registers 10 shots.

I need to find a way to filter out this noise. Going to try giving my Dad a call again. Wish I had a local friend who knew more about this to take a look at it.

[CarlW]

Having both on the same transformer makes it worse by 10 !

The sensor is normally at 5V, if the light is reflected (e.g. by a shiny pachinko ball), the voltage drops to under 1 V. The counter acts as soon as the voltage is falling. So, something is causing a voltage drop. This voltage drop happens regardless of the lights, regardless of the cheat button. Just by the soleniod firing.

When you plugged the old transformer in a separate outlet from the counter, everything worked ok.

Are you using an extension cord or a power strip? Is there any way for you to measure the house voltage at the transformer?

The counter will just "not work" if it doesn't have enough juice. It is working, just not accurately.

Sorry about the wild goose chase.

[Card Shark]

I talked to my Dad on the phone. After a few tests he had me do, he feels it is definitely the solenoids activating that are creating the "noise" problem. He feels pretty confident that installing a few capacitors should take care of this. I sent the following pictures to him, as he has never seen the machine and is not very familiar with Pachinkos in general. He hopes to get back with me today to let me know how many capacitors I need, what size and where to place them.

Counter Sensor.jpgCounter Transformer.jpgCounter.jpgGame Transformer.jpgPower Distribution Box.jpgShot Sensor.jpgSolenoid Board.jpgTulips.jpgWin Sensor.jpg

[Card Shark]

My Dad just sent me the following along with the part #'s from Radio Shack for the diodes. Heading out soon for parts and going to give this a try.

SURGESUPPRESSION
Surge Suppression Explained
Inductive kick (surge) occurs any time an electrically generated field collapses. A voltage,
opposite in polarity to the original applied voltage is generated by the collapsing magnetic field.
A good example of this is in an automobile ignition system. When the breaker points open, the
current flowing to the ignition coil is shut off and the magnetic field built up in the coil collapses.
The resulting inductive kick voltage is high enough to jump the gap at the spark plug.
The same effect also happens whenever solenoid used on a hydraulic valve is shut off. The
voltage surge can reach several hundred volts which will arc across the switch contacts and
quickly destroy them. Switch life can be reduced to one-tenth of normal.
The solution is to add a diode in parallel across the solenoid terminals (See Fig.1). A diode acts as
a one-way valve for electricity. In normal operation, the electric current can't flow through the
diode, so it flows through the solenoid coil. When the operator releases the switch, the current is
shut off to the solenoid and the inductive kick flows backwards through the diode rather than
through the switch contacts, bleeding off the high voltage spike.
Installation Tips
Diodes should be installed as close as possible to the solenoid. Soldering a diode directly across
the 2 solenoid terminals is ideal.
Use a diode with a voltage rating of at least 10 times the circuit voltage and a current rating at
least as big as the current flowing through the solenoid. In practice, diodes rates at 200 volts and
1 amp are readily available for a few cents and are appropriate for most applications.
Diodes have a stripe on one end of the case (Cathode). On equipment wired with negative
grounds, the end with the stripe should be installed on the most positive side of the solenoid. This
is usually the side that has the wire from the switch (See Figures 1 and 2).
Sure Grip manufactures a diode pack which can be used to provide surge suppression.

Sorry the illustrations did not carry over. If this works, I will be sure to post pictures. Hopefully this will mean I can finally put together my video as well.

[Card Shark]

Hooked up the diodes with alligator clips to each solenoid and had the same problem.

Then started thinking, the relay acts just like a solenoid. Talked to my Dad and added a diode to the solenoid as well.
It Works!!!
I tested it every way I can think of and no problems whatsoever.

Now I just have some soldering to do in some tight areas and everything should be working great!!!

I will start a new thread soon with the pictures and video of everything up and running. Now just need to add lights and a ball lifter.

[Moparformances]

congrats

[jodini]

Can't wait to see it Card Shark! Video of everything...resistors, lights, game in play!

AWESOME!
Joe

[browne92]

It is a 5V counter. The voltage regulator on the counters I have is part number L7805CV. I remember a thread where GAKU said it could be hooked up to 24V, but can not find it... the counter will be fine with 24V.

I came in a little late on this thread, and I haven't read every bit of it, so I'm not 100% sure what's going on, so forgive me it this has already been covered.

When you say 'transformer', I'm assuming a/c output (some people refer to wall wart d/c power supplies as 'transformers', so I have to clarify that.) A/C rectifies and filters to 1.4 times its voltage, so your 24 vac transformer will wind up being 33 volts d/c. Typical input voltage on a 7805 is 18 to 20 volts, with an Absolute Maximum Rating of 35. That's getting awful close to the danger zone.

Good luck and enjoy your machine!

[CarlW]

I came in a little late on this thread, and I haven't read every bit of it, so I'm not 100% sure what's going on, so forgive me it this has already been covered.

When you say 'transformer', I'm assuming a/c output (some people refer to wall wart d/c power supplies as 'transformers', so I have to clarify that.) A/C rectifies and filters to 1.4 times its voltage, so your 24 vac transformer will wind up being 33 volts d/c. Typical input voltage on a 7805 is 18 to 20 volts, with an Absolute Maximum Rating of 35. That's getting awful close to the danger zone.

Good luck and enjoy your machine!

Card Shark has more than one of each...

a 24V AC transformer (not in use currently)
a 24V DC wall wart (power pack)
a 15V DC wall wart (power pack)

Think Card Shark is feeling the love only a diode can provide now though...

[Card Shark]

I came in a little late on this thread, and I haven't read every bit of it, so I'm not 100% sure what's going on, so forgive me it this has already been covered.

When you say 'transformer', I'm assuming a/c output (some people refer to wall wart d/c power supplies as 'transformers', so I have to clarify that.) A/C rectifies and filters to 1.4 times its voltage, so your 24 vac transformer will wind up being 33 volts d/c. Typical input voltage on a 7805 is 18 to 20 volts, with an Absolute Maximum Rating of 35. That's getting awful close to the danger zone.

Good luck and enjoy your machine!

I truly wish I knew more about electrical and electronics. Is there a reason it would be better to run the machine on A/C vs D/C?.

[browne92]

I truly wish I knew more about electrical and electronics. Is there a reason it would be better to run the machine on A/C vs D/C?.

If you're talking about an original vintage pachinko, nothing added, it doesn't matter. As long as the transformer/power supply voltage matches the lamp voltage. Switches and lamps don't care.

When you start adding counters and such, then it depends on how they are made. They need regulated power...a very constant voltage. The might need a regulated power supply. If they have an on board regulator, they will need a raw d/c supply. If they have on board rectifier, filter, and regulator, then they will need an a/c supply. Just depends on how they were designed/built.

HTH's

[Card Shark]

I have been toying with the idea of running the Gaku Counter by battery.

Any thoughts?

[jodini]

Come on Card Shark...where's the vid?!

[Card Shark]

Working on them. The only device I have for doing a video is my iPhone and I am not sure how to edit the videos. I hope to have this done on my day off tomorrow.

[mxfaiman]

I have been toying with the idea of running the Gaku Counter by battery.

Any thoughts?

I don't think that is a good idea seeing it is always on during play. I would just stick with the wall wart.