Fruit King Arrives

[slotter]

Argh!!!! Cyclic Sucks!!! Haha!!! :lmao:

Good thing there are things that please each of us. I'd hate to think we are all the same.

[arbycoffee]

I like both, I be BF/CU. (Ball Feed/Cyclic Usage)

[Tulsa]

Hey Don,

Tulsa is starting with that Cyclic disease again. I was hoping he might have recovered by now.

Gary's description of his flashing "+" and "-" lights and their relationship to the opening of the flippers certainly does sound like the operation of those lights and flippers on the Fever Seven Flash machines.

Tulsa: Just say "No!" to all that cyclic mumbo jumbo. You can kick this disease if you really try.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Don't bother with Slotter, he knows his access rides on his every word! bwahaha

Now that we have Slotter out of the way, "say no to cyclic"? Oh ye shortsighted one, cyclic is the only way. It's like tennis vs raquetball. In tennis you chase the ball around constantly and if you miss it, you have to fetch it. What a waste of time and energy. Now with Raquetball, you don't have to chase it around, eventually it will find it's way back to you on it own. With cyclic, you're not chasing balls and dropping balls and feeding balls all the time, you can focus on the game itself instead of constantly moving balls.

Play smarter, not harder!

[arbycoffee]

That's from the book!

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

Please be patient with Tulsa and Arby. They have lost their way and turned their backs on tradition. It is not their fault; they have been aflicted by a terrible malady. May the Force return and lead them to the path of Pachi tradition and harmony.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[gwarzin]

I don't understand how you'd keep track of winnings on a cyclical, unless you installed resettable counters on the "balls fired" and "balls won" terminals and then subtracted balls fired count from balls won count.

Do the "balls won" terminals send out a signal for each ball won, or only for each ball actually paid out? I assume you don't put any balls in the top ball tray so there would never actually be any balls paid out.

Seems like a lot of the fun would be missing if you didn't hear the noise of the balls being paid out and see the pile of balls growing in the payout trays.

Right now I still think the best bet is the ball lifter. I plan to bolt the pachinko to the top of a Target Mudroom cabinet, drill a hole for the played balls to drop down into the cabinet and into the ball lifter. This way you could put a much larger bin for the balls than you could mount behind the machine. This would have 2 advantages. You could payout fever rounds of thousands of balls. And when you are in a losing streak, you just need to open the front doors of the mudroom cabinet to reach in to get more balls.

[slotter]

Don't bother with Slotter, he knows his access rides on his every word! bwahaha

Now that we have Slotter out of the way, "say no to cyclic"? Oh ye shortsighted one, cyclic is the only way.
Play smarter, not harder!

OMG, now the "access" word comes into play??? Obviously, Mr. Tulsa is pulling out all the stops in in a futile attempt to change tradition! Ok, if that is the way, that is the way.

It won't work. We shall stand by our machines and enjoy the Fever! Cyclic may be for some, but not for all. Give us Fever or give us, nothing!

Uh, on second thought... Nevermind.

[arbycoffee]

you do it in your head, after awhile it is easy

[arbycoffee]

stop laughing I can hear you in Iowa, I was joking

[Tulsa]

Gwarzin, here's how it works. You shoot balls, lots of them. You have no real idea how many you've shot vs won to start with. So you either have them fall into the front to be shot again (cyclic) vs falling into the back where you have to stop shooting to grab them, again you have no idea how many are in the container. Now if you have a ball lifter, it's the same thing only your not having to pull them from the back, you have a device making even more noise raising the wasted balls into the top hopper which you can do on your own at a much faster and economical pace.

So in the end, you still have no idea how many you've won because you can't possibly count them as they are coming in, you could be getting paid from four or five seperate pockets and when you factor in the vs shot balls, you really don't have a clue.

So don't get caught up in the winnings thing. If someone is telling you, they know how many they've won, they're lying. They have no clue. They certainly don't know how many they've shot either, so overall winnings are meaningless.

So, in the end you gain nothing by playing anything but cyclic. It's really pretty simple.

[slotter]

stop laughing I can hear you in Iowa, I was joking

:18: BWAAAAAHaaaahahhaaa!!!

[slotter]

Gwarzin, here's how it works. You shoot balls, lots of them. You have no real idea how many you've shot vs won to start with. So you either have them fall into the front to be shot again (cyclic) vs falling into the back where you have to stop shooting to grab them, again you have no idea how many are in the container.

I never grab the balls from the back and reload them. I have a bucket out front and keep reloading to the hopper from that. And, when the bonus is over, I do know what I've won.

To say what you're saying, is like saying you go to the Pachinko parlor, you buy balls and load up, but when you get done after shooting your balls, winning a bonus and go to cash in your balls, they tell you "forget it, dude." The balls you have mean nothing.

[gwarzin]

So in the end, you still have no idea how many you've won because you can't possibly count them as they are coming in, you could be getting paid from four or five separate pockets and when you factor in the vs shot balls, you really don't have a clue.

Sure you know how many you won. Just like in a real pachinko parlor. You count out (or weigh out) a quantity of balls to start with. And, when you're done playing you cash out the balls you have left. The difference between what you've got at the end and what you started with are you're winnings.

Of course this works best if you have enough balls that you never have to touch your winnings to feed to top hopper. The top hopper always has to be feed from the "parlor's" reserve, or from the played balls that have dropped into the bottom bin and now belong to the parlor.

My plan is to have a large reserve of balls in the mud room table and have all the played balls drop down into that same reserve. The ball lifter gets it's balls from that reserve. So the top bin is always being feed from the parlor's balls and not from your winnings.

Even if you win so many balls that the parlor's reserve runs out, this still works, it just slows you down just a little. The pachinko runs out of balls and stops paying out. But it still remembers how many it owes you. So you just keep playing. If the supply in your playing tray runs out you just grab a handful from your winnings in the overflow tray and play those. Once you make it through the fever round and can relax a little, you "sell" some of your balls back to the parlor (you do have to count or weigh them) - toss them back into the bin in the mud room table - the ball lifter takes them to the top hopper and the pachinko continues to pay out until it has given you everything it owes you.

In the end you have all the balls you should have. There's been no contamination of either your winnings or the parlor's supply. So you just weigh your balls and cash out.

[logicprobe]

Anybody notice how I'm staying quiet on this one?

I'm being a good boy tonight!











Cy... clic...cy... clic... cy... clic...
(Voices in my head again!)

[slotter]

Anybody notice how I'm staying quiet on this one?

I'm being a good boy tonight!



Cy... clic...cy... clic... cy... clic...
(Voices in my head again!)

Chicken...


:lmao:

[Tulsa]

Like I said, play smarter not harder.

What a convoluted way of playing a game. By the time you've purchased a lifter, a scale, spent time weighing balls and shifting balls around, whether from the back or from the little door in the front, are you enjoying a game or working your butt off? How much money have you sunk into a particular game? Remember these lifters only work on one machine, and can they lift at the same rate you can shoot? Don't forget the cost of 20000 (rough) balls for each machine too. Unless you're willing to stop playing long enough to weigh balls continuously, and you want to keep your winning balls from mixing with your spent balls you're going to need a ton of balls as an hour of playing has yielded over 16,000 before for me, (using formula method and no pocket hits added in).

If you hit a fever round, and your game pay 15 balls per trap door hit and you get 10 trap door openings per round you've won 150 balls. Now you get 15 fever rounds, you've won 2250. It's accurate and easy. Now along the way, you've won some from side pocket hits but how significant is this? How much money are you willing to invest and how much time are you going to spend to try and figure out how many this really is?

The parlors do this because they make a living at it. For your basement pleasure, are you willing to invest this much and work this hard to attempt to know this trivial ball count?

I understand a desire for realism but common sense has to come into play too. There is a point of diminishing returns and we went way past that a long time ago with lifters and scales and hostesses oh my! After all what's a good basement parlor without hostesses?

Using cyclic, you have no scales or lifters, only about 200 balls per machine to purchase. You know roughly what you've won in any particular fever round. You don't have to stop playing to move any balls or weigh any balls or waste any time. The balls still come out of the same channel into the shooting tray as they do now. People who aren't familiar with how this all works to start with have no idea anyway. They just get to shoot and keep shooting, watch the lights, light and hear the music play. That's what it's all about. When it's in your gameroom, the enticement is the lights and the sounds, the spinning reels or the video reels, not the winnings because there simply aren't any.

Pachislos are easy because the action is much slower. You're not dropping 400 tokens a minute into the machine to try and keep up with. You know the 50 token limit and counting what you've shot is easy? Seeing your winnings is easy. Pachinkos don't work this way and weighing your shot balls so you know this figure or weighing your won balls so you know this figure, is it worth it?

Oh and like Slotter said, LP, you're chicken!

[arbycoffee]

Like I said, play smarter not harder.Â…

Â…Oh and like Slotter said, LP, you're chicken!

Well spoke, I can't add to this, I rest my case your Honor.

Try it you will like it!

[Lazarus]

OK I will finally weigh in on this. I Am a pachislo person and have only the two working pachinkos. One vintage that I made into cyclic on my own before this topic ever came up and the Armageddon. I like to play the Armageddon once in a while but do not know if it is just the play of the machine itself I don't care for or it is the hassle of keeping up with the feeding of the balls. I know if I had to pay out foe a lifter or make a big fancy gravity feed system just to play it it would be to much money invested for the machine. I think if the Armageddon was cyclic I still would want a different machine but feel that it to would not be worth it unless it was cyclic. I also look at it in how much it costs you just to have one machine. The good pachinkos cost almost and in some cases a lot more than a pachislo. You need a lot of balls,way more than pachislo needs tokens and you have to constantly worry about getting rusted balls cleaning them and not tripping on the ones that land on the floor. Buy the time you add up how much you have spent on the balls the tome cleaning and picking out the rusted ones you can almost have again another pachinko. Then add to this the cast of a lifter that again is almost the cost of a packinko. You can buy at the vary least two good packinkos for the cost of playing one and in some cases it is almost three pachinkos you could get. Make them cyclic and I would be much more inclined to buy and play pachinko. I know most of this has already bean said, just had to put my thoughts to this topic. Thanks Laz.

[Utopia1dc]

I like both, I be BF/CU. (Ball Feed/Cyclic Usage)

Does that make you Bi-Pachinko?

[logicprobe]

LP, you're chicken!

( <--- LP being a good boy)

See what I get when I try to be good?

I am just an old man, afraid of change. :amish:

But, then when I think about the hundreds of dollars I've spent for balls... hmmmm.

Yet, the mere thought of having a disease (CTD) in the same discussion as balls... well... it's just skeeeery!

Maybe I just need inspiration...
I have to wonder (speaking of chicken ), if ol' Steel Balls Bilko has locked himself in his writing room... composing a ballad (or even a polka) about cyclic.

Will it be blues, ballad, or babushka?

I can only hope that he will come out of retirement for this worthy cause.