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Thread: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

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    Eye Shooter millermaster1's Avatar
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    Default Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Well I dug my Wanted out of storage to sell to a fellow Pachitalk member and having a wierd issue.

    The game plays fine, but it keeps paying out balls. I thought it was just catching up, but I did a reset with no success. About every minute it pays out 25 balls. When you get a ball in the pockets, the reels spin, but no immediate payout. The ball payout light isn't on either? Any help would be greatly appreacted by me and one of our newest members!wanted.JPG
    Thanks,
    MM!

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    Eye Shooter millermaster1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Bump...

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Not sure. But would be a good idea to check the connections from the payout motor back through the frame and back to the cel.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Also pull the payout module and see if something is jammed into one side of it. Had a similar machine do something like that - except that it only was able to spit 3 balls at a time, so it was constantly needing to catch up.

    Or... did you check the CR dongle? A short on it or something? Seems like the only case where it would spit out 25 at one time is when ball rental button is hit.
    Woof!

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    I have taken apart and cleaned the payout motor with no luck. I guess maybe the motor may be going out??
    i will check the dongle Chumsize and swap it with another to see if that works!

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Daverob dongle? A normal dongle doesn't interfere with the payout motor.
    I'm not sure if the cel sends an impulse per pocket or per won ball. But as the game doesn't have a 25 ball payout win only rental balls. I suspect something on the frame/payout. But I've been wrong before
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    I think on these ones, the pocket ball sensors are wired up to the cell CPU board, which then sends a signal to the payout control board to tell it how many balls to pay out. The dongle is directly connected to the payout control board and uses a separate signal to request a payout.

    With other Sankyo machines (I've only tested Victory and Lumina frames, not the Tatsumaki/Tornado frame that you have here), the payout control board will go into an error state and lock up for about 40 seconds if it sees signals with incorrect timing parameters on the dongle connector. Is there an error LED on the back of the machine, and what does it show / does it change at all?

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by daverob View Post
    I think on these ones, the pocket ball sensors are wired up to the cell CPU board, which then sends a signal to the payout control board to tell it how many balls to pay out. The dongle is directly connected to the payout control board and uses a separate signal to request a payout.

    With other Sankyo machines (I've only tested Victory and Lumina frames, not the Tatsumaki/Tornado frame that you have here), the payout control board will go into an error state and lock up for about 40 seconds if it sees signals with incorrect timing parameters on the dongle connector. Is there an error LED on the back of the machine, and what does it show / does it change at all?
    .
    Nope, no error message. Unless the balls run out or the tray gets full. It just keeps paying out...it does payout slower than any other machine I have.

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Does it still payout with no dongle connected?


    Reading the spec Daverob put on his website. The dongle/hall computer connects to the frame via an opto-coupler. If this is faulty and is closing the circuit. I guess that the frame would keep getting a signal to payout loan balls. The opto-coupler is conneted to pin 23 of the dongle connector and either pin 17/18.

    I would pull out the dongle, then trace the opto-coupler and test it. But it does sound like your payout board is up the spout.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    Does it still payout with no dongle connected?


    Reading the spec Daverob put on his website. The dongle/hall computer connects to the frame via an opto-coupler. If this is faulty and is closing the circuit. I guess that the frame would keep getting a signal to payout loan balls. The opto-coupler is conneted to pin 23 of the dongle connector and either pin 17/18.

    I would pull out the dongle, then trace the opto-coupler and test it. But it does sound like your payout board is up the spout.
    I can remove the dongle and the machine still makes payouts every minute or so. It is down to paying out 12 balls vs the 25...not sure if that means anything?
    Also, I did try another dongle and things did not change.
    Can a electirc motor slowly go out or is it all or nothing?

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    If you cleared the memory by doing a reset then it shouldn't pay out any won balls. The sensor that counts out the win balls is located after the motor. Even if the motor is slower it should still count 25 balls. It all sounds a bit odd. Try checking the opto coupler as said above. Or check for any damaged components or wiring.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    If you cleared the memory by doing a reset then it shouldn't pay out any won balls. The sensor that counts out the win balls is located after the motor. Even if the motor is slower it should still count 25 balls. It all sounds a bit odd. Try checking the opto coupler as said above. Or check for any damaged components or wiring.
    i can check components and wiring, but I have no idea how to check the pins? Any pins for dummy suggestions

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Magnifying glass and a good multi function meter which measures dc voltage, resistance and continuity. Or try and find a spare frame board. It's not that easy to explain at the moment.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Not sure if this video will help, but it show the payout without the ball indicator light going off. I believe it should go off at every payout?
    Also, went and took apart the payout motor again...performed a reset and still nothing new.
    Sankyo Wanted Pachinko Game - YouTube

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    It won't be the optocoupler for the dongle. The signalling between the dongle and the frame is more complicated than that, and requires monitoring the other signals from the frame and changing the state of the BRQ signal within a very tight (milliseconds) time window. If any of the signal levels or timing sequence is incorrect the frame will throw an error code and won't pay-out for about 30 seconds.


    From your video, I'd say that the problem is nothing to do with the dongle interface and you should look for the fault elsewhere.


    The payout is definitely far too slow. I'm assuming that you've checked the ball flow to the payout motor, and there's no obstructions that are causing the balls to slow down or stick in the channels around the payout motor. If that's the case then the payout motor itself is running too slowly. I believe it is a stepper motor in these frames, so if it is running too slowly, then it would be because the CPU on the payout control board is telling it to run slowly as these type of motors won't change speed due to voltage or current problems. This would lead me to believe that there is a problem with the payout control board CPU, and if I could source a replacement I'd swap the entire board.

    This is the time when another machine in the same frame would be very useful, as you could cell swap and see if the fault stays with the frame or the cell, and then swap frame boards, to narrow down the fault.

    If this is not possible then it might be worth pulling connectors from the payout control board one at a time and powering up to see if there's an error code shown, or whether the payout fault continues or stops. I don't have any machines in the Sankyo Tatsumaki (Tornado) frame, and I don't have any manuals or clear pictures of the back of the frame showing connections between boards, so I can't really advise on which ones to try and what you should expect to see if the cables are removed.

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    It does sound more like a fault with the frame. One other thing you can try is to disconnect the cel from the frame and see if it still tries to payout just as a bare frame, Although having another machine around would be more helpful
    Ian #UKPachinko

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  27. #17
    Eye Shooter millermaster1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Sounds like a little weekend project. I will try and pull the cell out and see if what happens. Stay tuned and thanks for the help!

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    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    You don't have to remove the cel completely, just disconnect the wires that join if to the frame. On the luminas they are the pink ones. Unsure about this frame.
    Ian #UKPachinko

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    You don't have to remove the cel completely, just disconnect the wires that join if to the frame. On the luminas they are the pink ones. Unsure about this frame.
    Ok, I haven't removed a cell from this generation of frame, but shouldn't be too bad...hopefully

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    Default Re: Another Sankyo Wanted Problem

    Attached are some photos of the back. I tried removing everything from the frame, but didn't know where to stop to test the payout mech. I put everything back together and it still payout Any suggestions?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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