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Thread: DIY Pachinko ball counter

  1. #1
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I am thinking about building a home-made digital ball counting machine. Something relatively small so it can sit on a counter. I have some of the preliminary plans drawn up and been researching the electronic parts, and I find the project is very doable.

    It would simply have a pour-in top hopper, the balls would run through a counter and discharge into a lower collection bin. It would have an on-off and reset switch, and accurately count 0 to 99,000 balls quickly as you can pour them in, by lots of a few hundred each. It would probably be powered by either wall wart transformer or a regular 9v battery.

    It will be built using common materials from big-box hardware stores and a few electronic parts ordered online. Nothing really super-fancy, just a DIY ball counting unit. I was going to build one for myself (only), but then I thought maybe others might be interested in it.

    It's a project that will take some time. I have a lot of other things going on too, but I'll update this page as my project progresses. If it all works out in the end I'll offer pre-assembled parts of it for sale or trade (Parts such as the electronic counter unit) and detailed plans for anyone interested.

    My first task is experimenting in different ways to get poured balls to flow reliably and single file through a tube without jamming. The electronic counter should be the easiest part.

    Wish me luck!
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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    keep your ideas simple.. something like the top hopper of a pachinko machine...

    a hopper with a hole that will allow 3 balls to fall threw should no be able to jam.. then on to a track to get them single file..

    Keep
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    Last edited by Moparformances; 01-25-2012 at 12:13 AM.
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    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    i use a digital weight watchers scale, i weight 100 balls or same kind of tokens the first time

    and use the weight of them for counting more.
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    A Pachinko ball weighs 5 grams each according to a scale I use. In reality it's probably something like 4.91 grams since 100 weigh a smidge less than 500 grams at 491 grams per 100 balls.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I've been playing around with the same idea myself (as it would make a great accessory for the dongles!), but haven't had the time to get past the experimenting stage.

    The main thing I've found out from my experiments so far, is that running the balls single file past a sensor is very slow. If you're going to be dumping a whole tray (which can hold 2000+ balls) into the counter like this, it is going to seem like forever before it's finished counting them. For an idea of how slow it is to count 2000 balls, time how long it takes to dump the entire contents of your pachinko machine payout hopper (usually somewhere around 400 balls) and multiply it by 10.

    My current prototype design uses four lanes and four sensors to count the balls, which seems to be a good compromise between speed and complexity. For more speed there will be the option of using multiple sensor modules to make 8,12,16... lanes or more. This is obviously much faster for counting, and makes it a lot less likely to jam up. With a single lane, one ball is all it takes to stop everything. With more than one lane, if one stops, the others keep counting and most of the time the movement of the balls through the other lanes is enough to shake the stuck lane free.

    I'm quite interested in what kind of sensors you're planning on using, physical switches, optical or inductive, and how you're planning to count them. I've been using opto-reflective sensors which are fairly cheap, seem to count OK (when you get the sense distance right!), but have the disadvantage of being affected by dirt. Though I don't think dirt will be a major problem with collectors like us, who like to keep everything nice and clean. My counting/display module will have to be a custom unit, as it needs to be able to be easily interfaced to the dongles (and it's difficult to find a ready made unit that can easily cope with multiple sensors).


    BTW, I currently use a set of counting scales with a 'tare' function. You zero it with an empty tray, then set up the counting function with a tray with 100 balls in it. After that each time you use it it will tell you exactly how many balls there are in each tray it's weighing, instantly.

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by daverob View Post
    I'm quite interested in what kind of sensors you're planning on using, physical switches, optical or inductive, and how you're planning to count them. I've been using opto-reflective sensors which are fairly cheap, seem to count OK (when you get the sense distance right!), but have the disadvantage of being affected by dirt. Though I don't think dirt will be a major problem with collectors like us, who like to keep everything nice and clean. My counting/display module will have to be a custom unit, as it needs to be able to be easily interfaced to the dongles (and it's difficult to find a ready made unit that can easily cope with multiple sensors).
    The counter itself will likely be worked by the 4026 decade divider. It includes both the counter and BCD to 7-segment decoder and drivers in a single package with a /10 pulse output to provide the CP for the next decimal stage. The sensor will be a photo interrupter, scanning either the top or bottom of the balls as they flow past.

    My first goal was to build a bin that can handle +500 balls poured in at a time without jamming. The physical wood working construction of this first prototype is very crude- I didn't care if I had to drill, adjust and re-drill again.
    I've dumped the container of 500-700 balls maybe 20 or so times (Around 1000 balls) without a single jam. I think this works pretty good:



    All those balls flow through in about 14 seconds, so I think that would be fast enough. Every once in a while a ball will ride out the chute one on top of another. I could add another level of slope to sort it out but I'd rather just add another sensor pair to count those.

    I plan to make this a stand alone table top unit and another slope would make it more taller than I want.

    I hope to order the electronic parts within the next couple days.
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Good start! Nice and simple. Can't wait to see how the rest turns out!

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    My electronic parts arrived yesterday and I spent all day today making the counting unit. I still have a bit of work to do with the breadboard, but it's working alright. I am using an IR LED focused on an optical transistor for the sensor. I've experimented with placing the pair of sensors in different positions to try and count the few balls which are riding on top, but the count is not as reliable as it could be. I believe the only resolution is to make a 2nd ramp below the 1st one to let gravity do its job, or control the flow of the bulk of balls.

    The video below was taken shortly after my sensor adjustments. A container of the same number of balls were counted three times, and the 2nd count was off by 7. The reason is the balls riding piggy-back down the ramp. But this is what I have, and I'll be working on it from time to time the next few weeks.

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Pretty sweet! I couldn't see the video because I had some junk crashing my computer...but it is good now! Looks like a pretty simple circuit, lots of wires, but not that many components. Would it be a simple circuit that others can make...or is that confidential? Keep us posted...I am interested to see the finished product.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    To help reduce balls traveling piggy-back down the ramp, try hanging a small object (like a nut or a few washers) from some wire or string just above the ramp, so the piggy-back balls hit the object and get pushed down. Something fixed there will usually cause a jam, but if it's movable it seems to work much better. You may have to experiment with the weight of the object, too heavy and the balls won't move it and you may still get a jam, too light and it gets pushed out of the way.

    Are your totals off due to extra false counts, or missing counts. False counts can be common with reflective things like pachinko balls, try making sure that there is nothing else that is reflective in the area of the sensors.

    I have been experimenting with single piece opto-reflective sensors rather than a separate LED and photo-transistor. With these sensors it's pretty much impossible to stop false counts being a problem, as any dirt on the pachinko ball will cause it to be counted twice. I got round this by 'de-bouncing' the input in software (my counter circuit is micro-controller based with an LCD display).

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  20. #11
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by daverob View Post
    To help reduce balls traveling piggy-back down the ramp, try hanging a small object (like a nut or a few washers) from some wire or string just above the ramp, so the piggy-back balls hit the object and get pushed down. Something fixed there will usually cause a jam, but if it's movable it seems to work much better. You may have to experiment with the weight of the object, too heavy and the balls won't move it and you may still get a jam, too light and it gets pushed out of the way.
    Are your totals off due to extra false counts, or missing counts. False counts can be common with reflective things like pachinko balls, try making sure that there is nothing else that is reflective in the area of the sensors.

    I have been experimenting with single piece opto-reflective sensors rather than a separate LED and photo-transistor. With these sensors it's pretty much impossible to stop false counts being a problem, as any dirt on the pachinko ball will cause it to be counted twice. I got round this by 'de-bouncing' the input in software (my counter circuit is micro-controller based with an LCD display).
    Thanks for the reply.

    I had tried hanging something of various weights along the flow of balls but I hadn't seen any noticable effect. I had added a 2nd ramp below the 1st. The sensors are separate IR LED and phtotransistor arranged not as reflective but shines through the top portion of the balls.

    I was able to pour a quantity of 1668 balls at a time, pouring 5 lots of them for a total of 8340 balls. One single pouring was off by only 4 balls which I think is reasonable.

    The additional ramp caused the unit to be about a foot high. I want something shorter. If a person wanted the counted balls to be diverted to their central collection bin, add another inch or two to the unit.
    If they wanted the counted balls to drop into a tray or container below, then add the height of the container. So a container 3 inches tall would make the whole unit about 15 inches high.
    That's too high.

    I've built a 2nd prototype with a 15x10" steel pouring plate and I'm experimenting with diverting the stacked balls off to the side for a separate counting. I am guessing two sensors driving an OR gate to operate the counter clock will be reasonably accurate. I've been working hard at this, trying a lot of different things.

    I could route the uncounted balls to a tray, to be put back in the top again but I'd rather figure this out.

    I'd love to see techical drawings of Japanese commercial counters.
    Last edited by SteveFury; 02-20-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Sounds good, and very interesting to me, as it's completely different to the way I've been going about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    I am guessing two sensors driving an OR gate to operate the counter clock will be reasonably accurate.
    An OR gate won't work, as if you get two balls passing by the separate sensors at roughly the same time (so the sensor signals overlap), you'll only see one longer count signal out of the or gate, an exclusive-OR (XOR) gate would help as you'll get two count pulses with overlapping signals, but you'll still miss counts if two balls pass at the same time. This is the main reason that I chose a microcontroller instead of logic for the counter when using multiple sensors.

    I wonder if it would be possible to make a mechanical gate, so the diverted balls are held until there are no balls flowing past the sensor, and then they are dumped into the regular channel to the sensor. This might work, as if the number of diverted balls are small, they'll wait until all the rest have been counted before being released. If there's a lot of diverted balls, they'll probably back up and block the regular channel which will trigger the gate and release some of the diverted balls.

    I'd love to see techical drawings of Japanese commercial counters.
    That would be nice, but I'd settle for some good photos of the insides of one.

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by pachiwall View Post
    Pretty sweet! I couldn't see the video because I had some junk crashing my computer...but it is good now! Looks like a pretty simple circuit, lots of wires, but not that many components. Would it be a simple circuit that others can make...or is that confidential? Keep us posted...I am interested to see the finished product.
    Yup. Lots of wires, but that's breadboard work and they are necessary for building an experimental prototype. The finished product would be on a PC board.

    I think most people aren't skilled at soldering, so I'd probably sell plans that also include the finished circuit. If it works out maybe I could sell a couple complete units on eBay.

    This might also turn out to be some crappy thing nobody would want... Or I just loose interest and move on. But I'm making a good stab at it.
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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    Yup. Lots of wires, but that's breadboard work and they are necessary for building an experimental prototype. The finished product would be on a PC board.

    I think most people aren't skilled at soldering, so I'd probably sell plans that also include the finished circuit. If it works out maybe I could sell a couple complete units on eBay.

    This might also turn out to be some crappy thing nobody would want... Or I just loose interest and move on. But I'm making a good stab at it.
    lets not loose interest jsut yet.. depending on the price i would be intersted in buying the Electronic bits from ya.. i would like to make my own hopper and funel system..

    Prics is everything for a fun and not totaly necessary contaption.. (for me)
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Now that's an idea.
    Divert the rogue balls into a holding area. A 555 timer could expire after the last clock pulse as the last ball passed and fire a soloniod connected to the holding area, dumping the cache into the main channel. I have some solonoids laying around and may try that if everything else fails. I want this to be simple as possible for those who may wish to build one.

    Yes, the XOR would be the better choice. Thanks.
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by Moparformances View Post
    lets not loose interest jsut yet.. depending on the price i would be intersted in buying the Electronic bits from ya.. i would like to make my own hopper and funel system..

    Prics is everything for a fun and not totaly necessary contaption.. (for me)
    A low cost project is my goal with most parts locally available. For example the metal I used to make the pouring plate is the front to an old Maytag washer we had, cut with a saber saw & snips.

    The electronic parts are cheap enough, but the PC board itself would be the most expensive. I'll etch one myself but there's a lot of connections to make. It's too tedious to do more than one or two so I'd need to contract it out. Much of the cost will depend on that.
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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    Now that's an idea.
    Divert the rogue balls into a holding area. A 555 timer could expire after the last clock pulse as the last ball passed and fire a soloniod connected to the holding area, dumping the cache into the main channel. I have some solonoids laying around and may try that if everything else fails. I want this to be simple as possible for those who may wish to build one.
    I was thinking more of a purely mechanical gate. Something along the lines of the final part of the main channel is fixed at the source end, but sits on a small spring at the other end. When it is full of balls, the weight holds it down against the spring, when it's empty it rises by a small amount (only needs to be a couple of mm or less than 1/8"). This movement is attached to a small gate that also raises and lowers in the upper holding channel, just enough to block the ball movement.

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    My participation here at PT hasn't been much lately, and it's because I've been spending so much time in this project. The project has morphed away from something I'd like to do to more of a personal vendetta because I know it can be done.

    I'm on prototype #3 which looked very promising. Despite minor problems with virtually every aspect of the unit, I tried a test run dumping 500 balls at a time to check the count.

    These are the counts across 10 runs:

    472
    483
    468
    486
    493
    494
    475
    446
    495
    515

    The count average is 483 (4872/10=482.7). The accuracy is 97% (96.6%)

    I could probably get a bit more accurate by adjusting the sensors, but my current problem is the accumulation of noise in the wires connecting the optical transistors. I've experimented with different capacitor values from their output to gnd to tame this with some but not complete success. I am using solid core ethernet twisted pair wire from a CAT 5 cable. I'm using this wire because it's what I have laying around.

    I'm taking some time away from the project to do other necessary things for a few days.

    More important things like playing pachinko and saying hi to my friends.
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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    I could probably get a bit more accurate by adjusting the sensors, but my current problem is the accumulation of noise in the wires connecting the optical transistors.
    Firstly do you think the miscounting is a mechanical issue (ie due to balls missing the sensor), electrical (noise or counting circuit not always being correctly triggered), or optical (reflections off adjacent balls etc causing stray light to trigger the photo-transistor.

    Mechanical issues I'll leave up to you, as you know the design better than I do.

    If you think you're getting electrical noise pick up in a relatively short piece of wire, perhaps you need a different circuit design between the photo-transistor and the counter input. Assuming the wire length isn't excessively long (ie under a foot) you shouldn't see any significant electro-magnetic pick up, and certainly nothing that should need a capacitor to filter out. What kind of connections/circuit are you using? Perhaps posting a sketch of the input circuit (with component types/values) would be a good idea (can't see anything I can easily make out from the videos).

    I found optical noise was the hardest to deal with, even ambient light reflecting off the balls would mess up the readings. Try a few counts in the dark to see if they are more accurate, and if you haven't done so already try extra shielding on the LED and photo-transistor, so that they can't emit or detect light in any other direction than intended.

    As I mentioned before, I use a microcontroller for the counter, rather than discrete logic. This way you can 'de-bounce' the signal in software and clean up noise and any pulses that are too short to be a ball passing the sensor.

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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Hi Daverob.

    The wires are about a foot long. Without the capacitor, the counter will register between 1 and several hundred clock pulses for each trigger. The trigger is the optical transistor being temporarily blocked then unblocked by either a ball, a slip of cardboard or blocked off by a finger tip. It doesn't matter if the transistor and LED pairs are in the machine at all. They can be removed and have the same result.

    The counter circuit itself is the same I previously used without problems. The issues appeared after I added the x-or gate and a 2nd sensor pair.

    I add a 0.01uf to 10uf capacitor across the transistor or on the x-or inputs (Where the transistors connect) and the count is as I previously posted.

    Just to try, I removed the capacitors and tested my 500 ball count. The result of the first try counted around 980 and the second try was well over 4,400 counts.

    This is my schematic- the caps are not included here:
    My Schematic REV 2.jpg

    Maybe I'll not make a table top model and just go for a floor model. That way I can use my 1st prototype design, the one that proved to have a very accurate count using only one sensor pair. I wouldn't need to worry about it being physically too tall- as is a concern on a table top. The circuit is the same except one sensor pair and the x-or is eliminated.
    I could keep the current prototype on a shelf and come back to it later.
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