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Thread: DIY Pachinko ball counter

  1. #21
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Try a schmitt-trigger buffer between the opto-transistor and the input to the XOR. The output of the opto transistor is an analogue signal where the voltage is proportional to the amount of light hitting the sensor. The input to the logic gate is digital, below a certain voltage is a '0' and above a higher voltage is a '1', this means that there is an indeterminate zone between the two voltages, and a signal in this voltage range may produce a '0' or a '1' input or may even induce oscillation. Putting a capacitor across this input will help reduce oscillation, but cannot remove the fact that you have an analogue signal that is passing through this indeterminate voltage range.

    A schmitt-trigger gate has hysteresis applied to it's input, it won't change to a '1' state until the input voltage is above a relatively high level, and once it's changed it won't change back to '0' until the input is below a lower voltage level. This way there's no indeterminate zone, and you should see nice clean input transitions.

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  3. #22
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Thank you very much Daverob.
    I'll pick up a 74LS14 schmitt trigger this afternoon and give it a try.
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  4. #23
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I've gotten back to my project after taking a short break.

    I added the 74LS14 schmitt trigger and the sensors are working properly (Thanks Daverob). I have modified my prototype a bit to eliminate the 2nd sensor which greatly simplifies the design. I did a test this morning with a container of 500 balls counted 10 times. These are the numbers:

    498
    501
    499
    500
    500
    498
    500
    496
    498
    497

    4987/10 = 498.7 average count per test. That is 99.74% accuracy and it takes about 15 seconds to count them. I think that's acceptable.
    I have a lot more work to do but I am encouraged by these numbers. I've found a firm which can manufacture custom PCB's at a reasonable cost (For the counter circuit) and I have most of the board artwork done.

    I am already using my prototype to count my daily pachinko "winnings" which makes the game overall more enjoyable. Progress on this project is slow but it seems to be pretty steady.
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  6. #24
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I've done a lot of work on my counter project today after taking a long break from it. I solved a nagging, seemingly never ending problem I had with the ball exit ramp.
    I ran some accuracy tests today with a big ol' peanut butter jar full of balls. This is the test results of the jar counted 10 times. My wife was kind enough to hand count the balls afterward.

    1248
    1243
    1243
    1248
    1246
    1246
    1247
    1245
    1244
    1246

    12456 / 10= 1245.6 average count.
    1259 actual balls in the jar.
    99% accuracy. (98.94%)
    I am happy with that accuracy figure.

    I think the hardest parts of figuring this all out is past. You can see that some of the construction is still kind of rough... I'll need to replace the wood frame of the pouring plate etc. The body of it is basically a wood frame with the pouring plate box on top. The ugly box frame that holds the pouring plate just lifts off the 3/4" stick frame for easy access.
    Wood working is really my downfall... I have never been really very good at it so that will be my biggest challenge- to make this project look decent. I have a sheet of brown press board that I might use to cover the sides of the stick wood frame, I'm not sure.
    It's the same brown stuff that sits on the top of the pouring frame in the video. Rather ugly material but maybe not if it were painted.

    I have the artwork for the circuit board ready to go and send off for manufacture. Another challenge is convincing the Mrs. to help budget the cost of these boards. They are not really very expensive as long as I buy a small quantity.

    Anyway here is the video I made today:
    Last edited by SteveFury; 04-22-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  8. #25
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I sent off to have the boards manufactured today. (Yaay! Finally!!!) I've also begun the patent work. Geeze that is about as involved as anything else.

    Me and the Mrs decided to offer the DIY kit to our friends here at PT for an introductory price of $80. After that we will offer the kit on eBay for $100. The kit will include all the electronics... The finished circuit board counter, sensor, switches etc ready to go. Also included will be a CD that contains various PDF's showing step by step instructions, videos, animations etc.
    A person should be able to pick up the materials to build it at their local big-box hardware store for about $20. Most do-it-yourselfer's will likely have most of the materials on hand already.

    I am not good at woodworking so my prototype looks rather plain, and it is up to the builder how fancy they want it to look. (Function is the same)

    Below is a computer render of the board I am making:

    PCB Top.jpg
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  10. #26
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Just curious where is the reset button? I might have overlooked it.

    It would be cool to make it ridiculously large. I made a rocket launch controller (I'm into model rocketry) And I used a big red video game button as the launch button. It just makes it so fun.

    type of buttons I'm referring to.

    http://www.moneymachines.com/buttonswitchjoystick.html

    I can't remember what I paid for mine because I bought it at a local electrical parts store. But it was cheap and really fun to push.

    Your counter is coming along great by the way. I can't wait to see the 100% complete product.

    100 machines and counting...

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  12. #27
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Thanks for the encouragement.
    I was also thinking about using a large reset button. A button about 1.5 inches square like the ones on those video slot machines. I haven't looked for one yet, maybe they have one at my local parts supply.
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  14. #28
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    I've also begun the patent work. Geeze that is about as involved as anything else.
    I'm not sure something like this is worth filing a patent over. I looked into this for the dongle and decided against it mainly due to the costs involved in obtaining and defending a patent. If I had patented the dongle it would have added about $10 onto the selling price of each one I've sold, and if someone had produced an infringing copy then I doubt that I could afford to pursue them through the courts to gain an injunction.

    Each jurisdiction that you file a patent in will end up costing you several thousand dollars (the initial filing fee is quite small, but once you add in lawyers fees, examination fees, searches, maintenance fees etc it is actually quite an expensive process). If you only file for a US patent, then there's nothing stopping me in Europe from copying your ideas, even if I were to sell to customers in the US the infringement would be with the individual US customer (ie the importer), and the legal costs of pursuing each individual customer would be prohibitive.

    Also there's a lot of prior art in this area, optical counting methods are not new. So unless your system has something very novel in it (that you haven't already told us about), I'd expect that it would get thrown out at the examination or search phase. Even if it does get granted, you'd have a very difficult time defending it as it would be up to you to prove that all of this prior art does not apply to your patent or (more importantly) the infringing product. It wouldn't be that hard for someone 'skilled in the art' to come up with a similar design using 100% prior art and circumvent your patented idea.


    I will come clean here. As I have said before, I too have a design I'm working on for a counter product (although mine is designed primarily as an accessory for the dongle rather than a stand-alone unit). It is sufficiently different in both design and implementation from your counter that I doubt it would be possible to obtain a patent that covers both devices. If your patent does cover my ideas, then I could quite easily state that the design is an improved version with an 'inventive step' and patent that, and then the only winners will be the patent lawyers.

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  16. #29
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Thank you for the post Daverob.

    You make some very good and valid points.
    I had those in mind and at the same time was going to seek a patent. I've spent most of yesterday online doing research. There's a lot of websites offering a "Free" patent application but I strongly suspect they are just a mining operation for personal information. I went to Legalzoom and Rocket Lawyer which are two reputable organizations. Legalzoom wanted $900 for lawyer and art fees plus an optional $300 for a search. Rocket was about the same thing.

    I found that utterly ridiculous for this project. I don't believe there's enough market out there for this device to be a gold mine. My real satisfaction here is to invent something that works well and that a few people want. The USPTO wants $125 for a provisional patent good for 12 months. I will probably apply directly to the USPTO for the provisional and keep the attorney snakes out of it. That way the legal expenses are minimum, I'll have the right to claim "Patent Pending" and have 12 months to see how it sells before deciding whether to pursue a full patent.

    I don't believe that I would have much chance of defending my product if a big corporation decided market it. But I do believe registering with the patent office might deter Mr. Couch Potato from relabeling my package and reselling it as his. Worse thing I can think of is finding my package being sold on eBay with my plans, my videos, my animations and my board because Mr. Couch Potato bought one and filed his own patent.

    If I put my package onto eBay and I get an attourney letter claiming patent infringement then I'll pull the advertisement if the claim is valid. I am hoping my design has enough difference to matter. I'd like to have a a low cost DIY ball counter to be available for people.
    Last edited by SteveFury; 04-28-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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  18. #30
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    I wanted this community to know this is an ongoing project.

    I've had a perfectly working prototype in operation since about last April, the one featured in my youtube channel (See my signature).
    I had completed the paperwork necessary to obtain a provisional patent to produce units for sale on eBay and social media outlets. I've been using it ever since, and it continues to be extremely reliable and accurate. Although not a ball cleaner, it dislodges and collects loose debris off of the balls and deposits it on a vacuumable receptacle. I have most of the parts to produce more.

    Counter.jpg

    The problem I ran into is marketability. I'd like to put my project into a nice quality wood case but woodworking is not my strength. The photo you see is about the best I can do, and that has been the snag which has stalled the movement of this project. Frankly, I don't have the $ which is needed to produce a completed, marketable prototype. I've begun researching the methods to obtain project backers which can fill the gap between creativity and funding. Places like Kickstarter

    I've just started creating a presentation of this project for potential backers so we'll see how it goes. If this is successful I have more pachinko accessory projects and other home arcade related things in mind.

    I've decided not to go with a DIY kit, but rather an inexpensive unit.
    If you enjoy my pachinko, pinball and pachislo YouTube videos, please "like" them at:
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  20. #31
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    I wanted this community to know this is an ongoing project.

    I've had a perfectly working prototype in operation since about last April, the one featured in my youtube channel (See my signature).
    I had completed the paperwork necessary to obtain a provisional patent to produce units for sale on eBay and social media outlets. I've been using it ever since, and it continues to be extremely reliable and accurate. Although not a ball cleaner, it dislodges and collects loose debris off of the balls and deposits it on a vacuumable receptacle. I have most of the parts to produce more.



    The problem I ran into is marketability. I'd like to put my project into a nice quality wood case but woodworking is not my strength. The photo you see is about the best I can do, and that has been the snag which has stalled the movement of this project. Frankly, I don't have the $ which is needed to produce a completed, marketable prototype. I've begun researching the methods to obtain project backers which can fill the gap between creativity and funding. Places like Kickstarter

    I've just started creating a presentation of this project for potential backers so we'll see how it goes. If this is successful I have more pachinko accessory projects and other home arcade related things in mind.

    I've decided not to go with a DIY kit, but rather an inexpensive unit.
    Looks pretty cool.

    Though there are some things I know I would like to know and maybe a few others.

    1. What is you estimated price of a unit? Saying you sell around 30-40 of them.
    2. Are there any other version you plan to sell? Like electronics only with instructions on how to build, complete unit, and kit form.
    3. Would you share what your "goal" amount of $ to raise? (goals are always good and needed for kickstarter)
    4. Can you think of any other uses for it other than counting pachinko balls?

    That is about the only things I have on my mind at the moment. I would think other have a few more questions or similar ones.

    Anyways you don't have to answer them if you don't want to, I'm just curious as it is all info that you will have to sort out sooner or later.

    100 machines and counting...

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  22. #32
    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    i would like to know the price of a built unit (less any wood parts).. leave the wires long and i will build my own box to pour and row the balls into..

    if this is an option
    Never Doubt that a small group of thoughtful, .......... /........ If your not going to stand behind our troops
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    .....Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has............./
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  24. #33
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Thanks for the replies.

    If I were to sell the assembled counter by itself, it would be about $65 not including shipping. Although this circuit can count virtually anything which passes between a pair of optical sensors (Versatile applications), I believe there are microprocessor-based counting units with more features available for about the same price. Therefore I'm relying on the application I'm using it in.

    Part of me still wants to produce and sell a DIY kit which includes detailed, illustrated plans and the counting unit for around $90. Everyone I know on a personal basis who have seen my prototype says I'd be crazy to sell it as a DIY kit for piracy reasons. I believe this a very small niche market which, along with a provisional patent and the small advertising target would make the impact of piracy rather small.

    Regarding a finished unit, I am still waiting on a reply from the companies I've contacted about doing the ABS plastic molding. I am new to this process and gathering information. I am hoping to keep a finished unit under $150. I think most of these ABS molding companies are looking for large quantity orders of +100 or more.

    I have other versions in mind, such as a unit to fit in the wall between pachinko units. More future projects in mind such as a machine to count, store and dispense balls all in one package along with pachislo tokens.

    Below is an example computer render of a case idea. Maybe put rows of LED's inside to make the colored parts glow in low light:
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  26. #34
    Pachi Puro Card Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Looks cool!
    "Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well."
    Pachiholic and Proud!!! サメ

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  28. #35
    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DIY Pachinko ball counter

    Looks interesting.

    I'd look into resin casting as an alternative for the plastic housing, as I think that ABS moulding will be cost prohibitive in the quantities I'd expect you to sell. The injection mould tooling for something that size will cost several thousand, and you probably won't find a mould shop willing to run less than 100 at a time. If you want to mould in two colours (double shot), then you'll need two moulds and I'd not expect to get much change from ten grand for your first run of plastics.

    Resin casting can be done at home with minimal investment in equipment, or you can get prototyping places to do it in small quantities.

    I don't think you'll have much of a problem with 'piracy'. The market's not really big enough for a lot of competition, so if you are first to market (and can sell for the right price!) then you'll probably get the entire 'standalone pachinko ball counter' market to yourself. But be aware that others might come up with alternate designs that either add features or reduce cost.

    You might also want to chat to others that have sold pachinko/pachislo accessories in the past to get an idea of numbers etc, I'd be happy to talk numbers in a private message and maybe you could get in contact with Gaku about his Pachicounters (or Musky who is selling the remaining stock).

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