cell replacement

[pachiwall]

Took it to a printer today just to get an estimate. If I supply the image they will print it on a 4 mil Vinyl car wrap for $40. What material is appropriate? I couldn't get them to consider a Mylar layer...seems they can't get it. Emmadog suggests a 5 mil Mylar marketed as Duralar that I'm gonna look into. That over the car wrap should do the trick.

[Rival]

Mine have a 3 mil UV-resistent glossy laminate applied, and if you go that route make certain they have the correct equipment to apply it or you will end up with lots of problems. I went through 4 print services before I found one who could get it all correct, it cost me a small fortune in crappy backgrounds that went into the trash. Also, make sure they run the image 3-5 times or you will end up with printing stripes that will piss you off royally.

You may get lucky and find someone who knows what they are doing the first time. I hope you have better luck than I did.

[mxfaiman]

Took it to a printer today just to get an estimate. If I supply the image they will print it on a 4 mil Vinyl car wrap for $40. What material is appropriate? I couldn't get them to consider a Mylar layer...seems they can't get it. Emmadog suggests a 5 mil Mylar marketed as Duralar that I'm gonna look into. That over the car wrap should do the trick.

$40 sounds about right. I looked into it too and got quoted about the same. Cardwwi gave me a good source for clear Mylar to lay over the top but I forgot the company name and the link to it. They were very well priced and shipped it out fast. (good material too) If I remember right it was about $8 for enough to do one machine.

If someone gets the info on it can you please PM it to me again.

[pachiwall]

Dickblick.com go to search box and enter 55525-1041. 25"x40" 5mil adhesive backed sheet for $8.53

[SteveFury]

I just take my file to the UPS store and they print it on photograph quality glossy paper and laminate it. It cost $24 for the printing and laminate. I've done two machines this way and been more than satisfied. The white is white as can be and the colors are vibrant without scanning lines.

[mxfaiman]

I just take my file to the UPS store and they print it on photograph quality glossy paper and laminate it. It cost $24 for the printing and laminate. I've done two machines this way and been more than satisfied. The white is white as can be and the colors are vibrant without scanning lines.

Well that is one method. But the paper stills open issues to water staining. Where as the mylar will show little signs of water. Plus the mylar has adhesive already on it un like laminated paper. But everyone has their ways

[Moparformances]

I just take my file to the UPS store and they print it on photograph quality glossy paper and laminate it. It cost $24 for the printing and laminate. I've done two machines this way and been more than satisfied. The white is white as can be and the colors are vibrant without scanning lines.

how did ya stick it down after it was laminated...

[mxfaiman]

Dickblick.com go to search box and enter 55525-1041. 25"x40" 5mil adhesive backed sheet for $8.53

direct link ► http://www.dickblick.com/products/gr...e-alternative/

I think the website I bought mine from was ever so slightly cheaper. (about $0.50) But 50 cents isn't a big deal.

Now looking at it I think that is also the same brand stuff I bought. (sorry I know that kinda sounds stupid)

[SteveFury]

how did ya stick it down after it was laminated...

Approx 250 nails, a center feature, several tulips, guide rails and the perimeter border. The water isn't an issue as long as one doesn't put water on it.

[mxfaiman]

Approx 250 nails, a center feature, several tulips, guide rails and the perimeter border. The water isn't an issue as long as one doesn't put water on it.

overtime moisture and humidity may get to it and cause water staining. Plus the oils from your hands goes down the nail shafts and seeps into the cell.

[cardwwi]

I have my backgrounds printed on a 3M graphic film with adhesive back. A 2-mil film with pressure-activated adhesive. Covered with a 3M glossy over laminate, that is also a 2-mil film. This is the same stuff they wrap cars with and it is more forgiving to work with. Then I place a pressure-sensitive Dura-Lar 5-mil, medium-weight, clear film with permanent adhesive backing for extra protection and I like the way it looks from Dickblick.com (55525-1041) I did some machines with out the 5 mil clear and I found that the playing field needed cleaning more often.

[emmadog]

exactly what cardwii said.
keep in mind that what you see on your monitor will be different on the printer's monitor and what's on the final product. a great thing to do is to bring a color chip in from a color guide (i bought a Pantone color guide which is very handy when color matching or when at the store buying paint to match whatever you're doing). anyway, if you bring that to the printer he'll know the exact color you're shooting for and can tweak his process. i had to go thru 3 prints on my first "throttle 2" machine and 2 prints on my "big spin" machine because of color variatons on various monitors and equipment. from then on i brought a sample in so the printer can reference it which saves money and time.
as for the mylar i bought a roll of it as opposed to the single sheets since i use it for pop bumper and slingshots for playfield protection on my pinballs. that way i can custom cut my own shapes for various applications. i tried using non adhesive mylar on my first cel replacement and don't recommend it because it was difficult to lay down flat in several areas. adhesive mylar is a snap to use.
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I just take my file to the UPS store and they print it on photograph quality glossy paper and laminate it. It cost $24 for the printing and laminate. I've done two machines this way and been more than satisfied. The white is white as can be and the colors are vibrant without scanning lines.

i've thought about using photo paper for some time since that will give the best possible picture quality especially with complex designs when viewed up close. i think for adhesive i'd go with spray on contact cement that goes on very thin.

[emmadog]

overtime moisture and humidity may get to it and cause water staining. Plus the oils from your hands goes down the nail shafts and seeps into the cell.

hmm i'm pretty sure humidity wouldn't be an issue. if it was true then all your books, paintings, and everthing in your house would have to be protected somehow.
i've never heard of finger oils seeping down the nail shafts and discoloring a cell. how often do you really touch the nails and how much oil really comes off your hands?not knocking your advice but i'd have to see some proof that that has ever happened as is even a possibility. even if that did happen, i'd think you'd have to have several lifetime's of oil accumulation to make see it.

[mxfaiman]

hmm i'm pretty sure humidity wouldn't be an issue. if it was true then all your books, paintings, and everthing in your house would have to be protected somehow.
i've never heard of finger oils seeping down the nail shafts and discoloring a cell. how often do you really touch the nails and how much oil really comes off your hands?not knocking your advice but i'd have to see some proof that that has ever happened as is even a possibility. even if that did happen, i'd think you'd have to have several lifetime's of oil accumulation to make see it.

okay maybe I exaggerated a little about humidity.

as for oils if comes off when handling the balls which then in turn touch the nails. It is certainly a possibility but yes it will take quite a while for it to accumulate enough to really cause some damage.

Sorry I just hate the thought of a paper background.

[SteveFury]

The patterns on the original cells I've replaced have been on mylar/plastic covered paper. Far as I know, the damage to the cells are primarily (1) yellowing of the plastic Mylar, I assume to be caused by the effects of fluorescent lighting and (2) by parlor cleaning methods such as using big brushes dripped in a soap solution and using them to scrub down the cell.

I'm certainly not suggesting anyone here would scrub their own cells that way, but I suspect that even if a vinyl cell might show damage if scrubbed the same way. I think there may be slight damage to the bonding of lamination to vinyl where nails have penetrated through and cause leakage and staining.

But I guess we'll never know, as we won't be soaking our machines. If my printed cell needs replacement in 30 years it's very easy to do.

[emmadog]

I think high quality photo paper covered with UV resistant Mylar would be the best possible cel background. You'd have high resolution with the protection of Mylar. But I think this is splitting hairs since te resolution on vinyl is a sharp as the originals and either option will last a lifetime or more.