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Thread: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

  1. #41
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by KimbaWLion View Post
    If you you get one made for SAY a bit over $100 which is about what an orange one cost BEFORE any shipping. profit etc. etc. making it ALMOST $300.00...
    That is the price of 2/3 of some pachis. I would rather be bothered by scooping at that point which I do.
    I think the sticking point for many people on a ball lifter is the price. $300 is a lot to dish out and you can actually buy close to 8,000 balls for that price!
    Scooping makes sense but if the price was around $150 it would make a lot more sense.
    You'd have to manufacture a lot of them to get the price down that low.


    Quote Originally Posted by flashlight View Post
    my link didnt work? http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/inde...topic=116661.0 or you needed to log in to view pictures?
    It seems to be working now, looks like you have a button fetish.

    That is one serious multiplayer panel! I didn't read t but did you wire all that by yourself?
    Very Cool!

  2. #42
    Blind Shooter flashlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    The wiring was surprisingly easy, except on my back!

    I think a microswitch would work well to monitor if the hopper box on top was full or not. The switches can be wired in an always on, or always off, and pushing the switch toggles the circuit.

    VersaMicro_MED.jpg

    Im aiming to make one from home depot level parts, for under 100. The only snag might be the motor, and time spent making any adjustments to prevent jams. A clutch based adjustable motor would be perfect, but probably makes the project more expensive.

  3. #43
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    I will try and look up the motor we used on another job. It did have a fan to cool itself. The motor wasn't cheap probably $75 retail. You need to build a quality product regardless of where you source the parts.
    Good, Fast, Cheap, pick 2.

    My system has had some srious crashes lately likely from that trogan that is infecting all the ads. My Malwarebytes trial expired so I'm probably infected again.

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    Blind Shooter flashlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    try spybot, superantispyware, and malwarebytes free version is still effective.

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  6. #45
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Thanks, I am using Spybot, Avast, and Malwarebytes but not sure if it's working as it says my trial is up yet it will do manual scans.
    My system is running so slowly now from all the protection that webpages take forver to load.

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    Master Inventor daverob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by new in town View Post
    Due to the cost involved the gentleman decided not to mass produce them.
    I didn't know that Frank had stopped making the Balldozer. I do like the design of it, and the price was about right at under $150 including shipping. It did look like something that would be quite time-consuming to manufacture though, so I can understand why it is hard to make it profitable enough to justify the time spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post
    I will try and look up the motor we used on another job. It did have a fan to cool itself.
    If the motor's got a fan on it, then it's likely to be extremely over-rated for a job as small as lifting a few dozen pachinko balls. If you want to manufacture a sub $100 ball lifter, then you've got to be buying in the motors at $10-15 each and you're not going to get a super strong industrial quality motor at that sort of price (unless you're buying '000s of them).

    Before I found out about the balldozer, I was planning on designing a ball lifter and making a small production run of them. But I couldn't manage to get the cost down low enough to make them worth the effort. Even at $150, most pachinko collectors will be looking at other options, and you're not going to sell enough to justify the engineering outlay.

    I'd be really interested in knowing how much people are willing to pay for a ball lift system. I know some collectors are prepared to import and pay the $200-300 that this costs, but I think the vast majority will not be interested until they're available for a fraction of that price.

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  9. #47
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    You have a good point. It's about how much will it cost. I think the price point woud be right around $150 or so retail. Any less than that and you won't make a profit.
    Much more than that and people won't buy it.
    This is why everything is made in China because you can get it done for the right money over there.

    You sell the dongles (I have to buy a couple soon) and if you had to sell them for $100 each how many people would buy them?
    They's scoop the balls into the tray themselves.
    The only thing is a ball lifter has to work reliably over time. Personally I would never make something like this unless I was convinced that
    it was going to run for years without wearing out. The challenge is to do that and come in at the right price point.
    The Balldozer guy was unable to do that, which is too bad because that looked like a decent design.

    If someone can make a cheap ball lifter system and by cheap I mean sells for under $100 and make it durable then they will probably
    sell a lot of them. I can't see anything durable being made at that price, unfortunately.

  10. #48
    I was thrown out of Top Gear Drunkenclam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    If one can be made from ready available parts but used in a different way. Life would be easier. I would love an auger based one. But I don't have the skill or machinery to make one. If I had a lathe I'd make one from nylon.
    Ian #UKPachinko

  11. #49
    Fever Hunter Denhomer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post
    The Balldozer guy was unable to do that, which is too bad because that looked like a decent design.
    I beg to differ. Frank sold his ball dozer for about $150. When I heard about the machine I immediately knew I had to buy one, for that price I'd be crazy not to.
    There is a reason the orange ball lifters/silk drive are expensive... it costs serious money to have them built. If Frank quit because it's not profitable you can guess the materials aren't a lot less than the selling price...
    Pachinko: Horror Mansion, Hanamankai Kirameki, Ringu, Julie The Pinball, Yoon Sona, Hissatsu Shigotonin III, Hanafuda Monogatari
    Pachislo: Beatmania

  12. #50
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenclam View Post
    If one can be made from ready available parts but used in a different way. Life would be easier. I would love an auger based one. But I don't have the skill or machinery to make one. If I had a lathe I'd make one from nylon.
    It would be great if the materials needed to make a ball lifter were was easily available, from what I have seen so far, they aren't. An auger system would be cool and work well but making the auger would be the trick.
    I no longer have access to over 32 Bridgeports and 7 Lathes, among other things.


    Quote Originally Posted by Denhomer View Post
    I beg to differ. Frank sold his ball dozer for about $150. When I heard about the machine I immediately knew I had to buy one, for that price I'd be crazy not to.
    There is a reason the orange ball lifters/silk drive are expensive... it costs serious money to have them built. If Frank quit because it's not profitable you can guess the materials aren't a lot less than the selling price...

    The Balldozer website says that he quit making them...

    Hold on it says he's making them again!
    I think I might order one, this looks like it has potential to mass market. Naturally that means that I couldn't make them. This is his design, but I think he could sell them here pretty easily
    it's just about cost of raw materials and assembly and them marketing them. Shipping overseas is expensive as well.

  13. #51
    Pachi Puro KimbaWLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Group buy! Oh I JUST checked his site and it says he is NOT making... I was curious out much they were if he still was...
    I may not be the best guy, BUT I am not the bad guy!- Coop from Megas XLR

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    Blind Shooter flashlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Err i went to the site and clicked on corner shop and got an paypal order form. i checked out total was 138 with shipping to us but no ac adaptor. But now when i go to site it says NOT building.

    I sent him an email to find out if my order went through or if it was a bug that orders were being accepted again.

  15. #53
    Blind Shooter Berzerk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by flashlight View Post
    Err i went to the site and clicked on corner shop and got an paypal order form. i checked out total was 138 with shipping to us but no ac adaptor. But now when i go to site it says NOT building.

    I sent him an email to find out if my order went through or if it was a bug that orders were being accepted again.
    Hi,

    here's Frank, I'm the one that built the Ball Dozer. I just want to give some explanation here about prices etc.

    The price for the Ball Dozer was 89 EUROS plus shipping (around 16 Euros to the US).

    After digging around for parts and prices for the Dozer for at least three months, I was able to get the all the parts pretty cheap. Only looking at the parts, it will something between $ 50-60. The build time for one Dozer is at about 2 hours if you build only one (and know how to do it). If you can built 20 at once, you might be able to reduce it to about 1 hours per lifter maybe faster. Billing and shipping is about 20 Minutes per machine.

    So only from the costs site of view, it was KIND OF profitable if you exclude the development time and the machines you need, like chain saw, stand up drill and so on... BTW: Development time to the final design was about a year. I'ts not that the final idea just comes to your mind, you write it down and build it. You have to change designs, solve problems, fix bugs and do hours and hours of test runs. Especially when you want to offer a cheap lifter, built from standard parts. And there is no way for custom parts with that small amout of build numbers.

    So again, from the costs side, you will have a small profit, the problem is just, that nobody buys them. If you only sell one or two per month, it's not worth the work at all because you can't optimize your building, shipping and handling steps. Beside writing bills, paying and declaring taxes and so on. Though it it might look different when you browse around in the forum here, the market is vanishing small.

    My guess is: It's not worth waiting for a cheap ball lifter (potentially with a great design). I don't think this will happen. If you have fun building things, try and build one yourself, that is possible for a small price.

    There are a lot of pictures of the lifter on my site and if you want, I can make some pictures of the inside. I can also publish the parts list and my building notes. But they are all in german and someone of you will need to translate them. I also have some motors and sprockets here (with fixed hub) for the motor, but I will not sell them one by one. That's not working because 16,90 Euros is the cheapest shipping method to the us.

    Bye,

    Berzerk

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  17. #54
    Blind Shooter flashlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    What if we put together a group order/signup list? like would you build them if say, 5 people all together put in an order? and if you cant get a total of 5 people who pay ahead of time for them the orders all get cancelled? Most mini/forum type manufacturing projects are done this way that ive seen.

    Im sure we
    a) all want to give credit where credit is due and buy one from you
    b) have one built/adjusted by the designer
    c) dont all have time and or technical skills to do it ourselves

    Though if you have no interest in even group of 5 order "bursts", we would certainly appreciate a parts list/additional photos!
    Last edited by flashlight; 01-12-2012 at 01:03 PM.

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  19. #55
    Blind Shooter Berzerk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Hi flaslight,

    thanks for your kind offer, but even if I would like to build some of them at the moment, I can't, because I am working on a new project where I am not at home during the week days :-(

    Thanks,

    Frank

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  21. #56
    Eye Shooter Steve Cebu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berzerk View Post
    Hi,

    here's Frank, I'm the one that built the Ball Dozer. I just want to give some explanation here about prices etc.

    The price for the Ball Dozer was 89 EUROS plus shipping (around 16 Euros to the US).

    After digging around for parts and prices for the Dozer for at least three months, I was able to get the all the parts pretty cheap. Only looking at the parts, it will something between $ 50-60. The build time for one Dozer is at about 2 hours if you build only one (and know how to do it). If you can built 20 at once, you might be able to reduce it to about 1 hours per lifter maybe faster. Billing and shipping is about 20 Minutes per machine.

    So only from the costs site of view, it was KIND OF profitable if you exclude the development time and the machines you need, like chain saw, stand up drill and so on... BTW: Development time to the final design was about a year. I'ts not that the final idea just comes to your mind, you write it down and build it. You have to change designs, solve problems, fix bugs and do hours and hours of test runs. Especially when you want to offer a cheap lifter, built from standard parts. And there is no way for custom parts with that small amout of build numbers.

    So again, from the costs side, you will have a small profit, the problem is just, that nobody buys them. If you only sell one or two per month, it's not worth the work at all because you can't optimize your building, shipping and handling steps. Beside writing bills, paying and declaring taxes and so on. Though it it might look different when you browse around in the forum here, the market is vanishing small.

    My guess is: It's not worth waiting for a cheap ball lifter (potentially with a great design). I don't think this will happen. If you have fun building things, try and build one yourself, that is possible for a small price.

    There are a lot of pictures of the lifter on my site and if you want, I can make some pictures of the inside. I can also publish the parts list and my building notes. But they are all in german and someone of you will need to translate them. I also have some motors and sprockets here (with fixed hub) for the motor, but I will not sell them one by one. That's not working because 16,90 Euros is the cheapest shipping method to the us.

    Bye,

    Berzerk

    You have what looks like a really good design, it's fairly inexpensive to make and it looks pretty reliable.
    The problem is making them as well as marketing them. The pachinko market is a very small niche market and full of hobbyists and tinkerers.
    Lots of people will try and build their own just as a home project.
    I was in manufacturing most of my life and while I stopped running machines quite some time back to work in the office.
    I think you would do well with these if you had a way to get the word out. But as you well know you have to sit down and produce these
    that means dedicated jigs for each step of the process and make it dead simple to do using a few stations for each part of the assembly
    process. That's pretty much a full time job for a product and you'd have to sell a lot of them a year to do it.

    I applaud your efforts, you came up with a great design over time. The price I think was very fair at 89 Euros. Shipping is pretty expensive for just about everything nowadays.
    That comes down in price if you are a dedicated vendor.
    I sincerely hope you decide to make a few more of these again, as I would like to buy one myself.

    I hope your other projects do well.
    Steve

  22. #57
    Blind Shooter flashlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    I know i jumped on the price when i temporarily/accidentally was able to place an order. Even with shipping to USA it was a bargain for a quality/tested item.

  23. #58
    Ensign Newton owennewton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter?

    I know that I would buy one if you start building them again. I would have when I first found out about them if I had not been worried about making my house payments at the time. I
    the

    LLTR

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    Eye Shooter rockston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter

    10 years later, after massive inflation, I am offering hand built ball lifters for $169, ready to go with tubing and free shipping continental USA.

    PM me if you need one!

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    Tokie Owens Mackin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible new idea for cheap ball lifter

    Quote Originally Posted by rockston View Post
    10 years later, after massive inflation, I am offering hand built ball lifters for $169, ready to go with tubing and free shipping continental USA.

    PM me if you need one!
    Are you still selling ball lifters? Thank you.

    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

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