Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 56

Thread: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

  1. #21
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    No offence taken, I appreciate the experience and advice of everyone here.

    I really grew a fondness for the Sanyo over the past few days. It was a bit lower price than the Nichijin and I was very curious about the mechanisms. My heart got set.
    It will likely sit next to my other Nichijin, and I was concerned about the drab yellow. I plan to reproduce the original playfield and I believe a bright white background will amplify the Sanyo's colorful plastics. I'll take another look at the playfield condition tonight and reconsider your comment. Thank you.

    I feel better about replacing all those rusty playfield rail cotter pins and screws. My logic is if I have all the playfield items removed anyway, I might as well go for cell replacement.

    I've also been contemplating about the front wood face of the machine and how to deal with the big chips. I'm thinking the best way would be to reglue & clamp the loose laminations, then use wood filler and repaint the whole faceod.

    Thank you so much for the help with the date estimation. That "50" is so hard to see !

  2. The following user says "Thanks" to SteveFury


  3. #22
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Jasper, IN
    Posts
    6,947
    Thanks
    8,348
    Thanks Received
    6,860

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    I've also been contemplating about the front wood face of the machine and how to deal with the big chips. I'm thinking the best way would be to reglue & clamp the loose laminations, then use wood filler and repaint the whole faceod.
    Well at least you got a machine that you wanted. I was really looking that the Nishijin from a playing stand point due to all the pockets.

    As for those chips. They are going to be hard to fix. you can do it how your thinking but it is going to be hard to match the pattern and color. The other option is to try to find the same type of Formica. But trust me it is hard to do I have been searching and haven't found much. Another possibility is instead of wood putty use some veneer instead and then paint it. That way you will at least get some sort of grain to it.

    100 machines and counting...

  4. The following user says "Thanks" to mxfaiman


  5. #23
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    My 2nd vintage pachinko rstore project is progressing very well, or degressing horribly which ever way you look at it.

    I've been busy all this time focusing on cleaning and fixing the main rear plastic frame. It took several hours of tub scrubbing to get the frame and various ball conduits really clean. I used a concentrated automotive soap, a rag, a toothbrush and a whole lot of labor. I used brasso to get the metal parts clean and to get the hardest parts of the plastic clean. The bells were coated with a thick carpet of nasty and I don't think they could ring at all. Brasso is abrasive so I didn't use it on the clear plastic frame. I buffed the few steel posts using a Dremel tool with the felt attachment.

    The payout arm/scale had the typical problem at the pivot, and I enlarged the hole by using the Dremel going very carefully.
    I tested the unit by rolling a ball into the jackpot seesaw, then pouring 14 balls into the top. The problematic arm dropped but it wouldn't return upward. It just remained down. Upon inspection I found the white plastic part the balls actually fall on had warped a bit and was touching the cover of the mechanism. I had to "adjust" (bend) it to make a clearance. Although the fulcrum pivoted nicely, the arm was still sluggish. I found a small brass rod and a brass spacer do-dad in my miscellaneous parts. I was able to solder the rod to the back of the existing counter weight and screw the do-dad weight on the end.
    I operated the seesaw with 14 ball "jackpots" many times and it is all working perfectly.

    I really tried to do a top-notch job on this with intricate detail. All the screw heads got a thorough mirror-polishing in the Dremel tool using Brasso and protected by paste (bees) wax. More wax on the screw threads to keep them from further rusting. I am more than satisfied with the work on this unit.



    Tragedy struck last night and I learned a very hard lesson. I was devastated. I was a bit crushed to tell the truth, and couldn't believe what I had done.

    Since everything else was going well, and I was taking extra time with little details, I decided to do the same with the wooden parts. I carefully sanded the perimeter edge of the face and playfield wood and made an assessment of the cell. I had spent some time cleaning it but I knew that at some point I'd like to change it. Definetly now would be the time, and I could use the opportunity to repair the rusted out screw holes under the cell graphic. I saw about 22 big nails around the playfield wood perimeter, about the same as my previous Nichijin rebuild.

    I separated the Nichijin playfiled using a sturdy edge and a large rubber mallet. I would try the same here.
    I started with the top of the playfield, and it didn't budge after a few hard whacks. I went a little harder, kind of bearing down on it. It separated about 1/8 inch along the top. I shifted things around to support the side, then gave a few whacks. Nothing happened so I went a bit harder.

    CRACK! The entire side of the wood faceod shattered, delaminating it to about half thickness. It really shattered into dozens of tiny pieces. OMG I stood there literally stunned beyond belief for a few seconds not believing my eyes and what I had done. "Well, one side is wrecked beyond repair so I might as well keep going" I thought so I went around the perimeter of the playfield, and the other side of the faceod shattered/delaminated as well.

    I can't tell you how bad I felt about this last night, after doing such a meticulous job on the other parts. you can see in the photo below I tried to reglue and clamp it together again but I'm afraid it's a useless gesture. It's silly to even try. Notice all the broken plywood layers on the floor. I even lost sleep about it last night. But I've came to realize that I can end up with a better machine than I originally had. I can aquire a new piece of 3/4 inch plywood and easily make a new face. there is no wood-routing to do, just a few round holes. The square-ish hole for the bottom tray and the large playfield cut out can easily be done with a saber saw.
    I can use the original as a cutting template. That will help immensely with the flipper alignment.



    Once it is apart I can see why it happened. It wasn't only the ~22 nails I could see. The the 4 square wooden spacers had hidden nails to the face frame, each spacer adding another 5-9 nails each. I counted 52 nails in all that was holding it all together. Compare this to my Nichijin which has a solid wood face, not laminated plywood, and it had far less nails.
    If I had known that I would never have tried to separate them. I would have cut the old graphic cell around the perimeter edge instead. The new cell's edge could have been secured with a type of frame. Geeze we all live and learn.

    So I've spent the most part of today power sanding the wooden playfield, and hand-sanding all the little openings. It looks good. I plan to put a drop of wood hardener in each and every rust-rotted screw hole and fill them with wood filler. I plan to polyurethane to seal the wood.

    I need to take inventory of all the screws and try to find replacements. I'm not sure if any of the big-box hardware stores will be able to supply the tiny screws, like the ones on the playfield.

    I'm feeling a lot better and optimistic about it today. Last night I was certain I had destroyed it.
    The biggest problem I now face is spending the $ on a good piece of plywood with a pre-finished side so it can have a nice front. How to get that one past the Mrs. is the challenge
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SteveFury; 12-16-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  6. #24
    Eye Shooter Rival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fishers, Indiana
    Posts
    684
    Thanks
    177
    Thanks Received
    1,985

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    I am in the process of doing another Sankyo, and yeah, I feel your pain. This particular one not only was visited by the nail fairy, but also the glue fairy. My dog ran for cover and cowered in the laundry room from the rash of obsceneties spewing out of mouth today as piece after piece of the frame shattered and splintered. This is the third time this has happened to me, all either Sanyos or Sankyos. Your damage appears fairly typical, if not lessor than mine. However, I have found that by use of woodglue and correct clamp placement you can repair the damage to a point that it is nearly undetectable. So long as the front lamination is not damaged you can do wonders.

    I generally leverage to ensure that when parts get mangled, they are the spacers and not the frame itself. I have 14 clamps repairing 5 spacers on the workbench as we speak. By the time I am done they will be better than what I started with. It is always best to try to leave the spacers on the frame and separate the playfield from the spacers.

    When clamping the front frame, always remember to use rubber feet for the clamps. I have bought several sets of orange rubber feet from Menards that slide over the ends of the clamps so that they do not make indentations in the laminate surface. Cheer up, I don't think you will need to replace the front frame.
    Last edited by Rival; 12-16-2011 at 04:49 PM.

  7. The following user says "Thanks" to Rival


  8. #25
    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    2,860
    Thanks
    967
    Thanks Received
    7,183

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Beautiful cleaning job. Instead of cleaning the plastic parts as they are pulled off of the machine, I've found it's easier to soak them in hot soapy water in a covered ice chest. The water stays hotter longer and all the parts fit. I'll soak them overnite usually and the grime just wipes right off. Then clean with a magic eraser which confirms to every nook and cranny then Novus 2. The magic eraser and Novus 2 should be in every restorers toolbox.
    EM Pinballs & Arrangeballs

  9. The following 3 users say "Thanks" to emmadog


  10. #26
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Thank you Rival.

    In my particular case, much of the wood layers shattered like peanut brittle and it's a huge jigsaw puzzle. The photo is a "better" side. If I were successful in repairing what I did last night I'd still need to repair the big missing chip(s) in the formica and I don't have the skills to make a great repair. I could repair the missing formica with filler and paint and make it less noticeable but not truly fixed, so I think I'll go for new wood.

    Thanks for the rubber feet trick.
    Maybe it would limit the damage if the side was pre-blocked and clamped before trying to separate them? That's just a thought.

    If I ever get a Sanyo or Sanko and wish to replace the cell, I'll cut the perimeter of the graphic and make a narrow edge frame instead of risking damage. A frame would be very easy to make either out of narrow steel or aluminum strips maybe 3mm wide or so, held down with a few tiny screws.

  11. #27
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    These two cell graphics show a stark difference between old and new:

    Graphic.jpg PF Graphic small.jpg

  12. The following 4 users say "Thanks" to SteveFury


  13. #28
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    I've been incapacitated with the flu for a few days, but I felt well enough to visit the hardware store today and buy all the replacement screws and the 3/4" plywood front. The wood is very nice, I believe it has an oak veneer. The grain of the original front runs horizontal along the bottom, but the grain of my replacement will run vertical across the whole face.
    I won't tell a soul about the grain if you don't.
    I plan to take lots of pictures as I cut and prepare my new wood facing.

    The big-box hardware store didn't have the teeny tiny screws used to hold the tulips and other playfield items. The ones I need are only 3/8 inch long and have a very small head. I was wondering if anyone else had to replace these screws, and if so can you recall where you found them. I need about 25.

    Thanks in advance.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SteveFury; 12-23-2011 at 05:41 PM.

  14. #29
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Jasper, IN
    Posts
    6,947
    Thanks
    8,348
    Thanks Received
    6,860

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    The big-box hardware store didn't have the teeny tiny screws used to hold the tulips and other playfield items. The ones I need are only 3/8 inch long and have a very small head. I was wondering if anyone else had to replace these screws, and if so can you recall where you found them. I need about 25.
    Those are the ones for the tulips right? Not the ones for the chrome frame. I haven't looked for the tulip ones but I can believe that they are hard to find. I usually try ace first. And if they don't have it I go to a family owned hardware store and they usually do have it. Sorry I am no help at the moment for those tulip screws. But I'll be looking forward to where you can buy them because I may need some in the future.

    100 machines and counting...

  15. #30
    MacGruber JACKSJE4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    5,002
    Thanks
    11,367
    Thanks Received
    14,376

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    I had to replace all of the play field and tulip screws on a machine I reconditioned and couldn't find any locally (I even tried model train and hobby shops!), so I typed what I needed into eBay and found some listed from this company:

    Screws from #1 to #6 in Brass,Nickel,Zinc, Black, and Antique Brass Plated

    I ended up buying 100 of them them in silver because I couldn't find them in brass.
    Last edited by JACKSJE4; 12-23-2011 at 09:22 PM.
    Jeff Jackson, Denver CO

    There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

  16. The following 3 users say "Thanks" to JACKSJE4


  17. #31
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Thanks Jeff.
    Do you recall, are these the ones you ordered?

    http://www.woodworkingparts.com/1-x-...d-head-screws/

    The original screws were flat pan head, but I wouldn't mind round head if the head itself was small. The smallest flat head I saw there was a #2, which is too big.

    They have a reasonable price there.

  18. #32
    MacGruber JACKSJE4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    5,002
    Thanks
    11,367
    Thanks Received
    14,376

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    The #2 flat head screws matched what I removed from the play field. I have never used #1 screws.

    The price on 100 screws is reasonable ($4.19), but the shipping ($8) is not.
    Jeff Jackson, Denver CO

    There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

  19. The following user says "Thanks" to JACKSJE4


  20. #33
    Eye Shooter Rival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fishers, Indiana
    Posts
    684
    Thanks
    177
    Thanks Received
    1,985

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    I find the #1 brass screws work perfectly for tulip replacement screws. I get them from the local woodworking shop. I consider them pricy at $8.99 per 100 screws, but then again, its cheaper then shipping them from an online retailer. Normally I would say that 100 of them should last me through 10 machines, but I am currently restoring a 1964 Nishijin that will need probably 2 dozen on the back, its all sheet metal.

    Oh, by the way, the tag says 50 (its blurry, but there) so tax stamp is 1975, making the machine a 1974. Just thought you might like to know
    Last edited by Rival; 12-24-2011 at 01:29 AM.

  21. The following user says "Thanks" to Rival


  22. #34
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Thanks.
    I cut the new front today with a saber saw fitted with a sharp new blade.
    I clamped on a straight strip of wood to use as a fence:

    IMG_2388.jpg IMG_2389.jpg

    I also used a new 3/4" flat wood bit to cut the flipper and lock holes.

    Things are finally moving along again and progressing nicely.

    IMG_2391.jpg

    I am estimating the total restore cost of this will be about $130 including the machine itself. Not too bad and I hope to have a great machine.

  23. The following 4 users say "Thanks" to SteveFury


  24. #35
    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Diamond Springs CA
    Posts
    14,076
    Thanks
    26,525
    Thanks Received
    12,096

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFury View Post
    Thanks.
    I cut the new front today with a saber saw fitted with a sharp new blade.
    I clamped on a straight strip of wood to use as a fence
    Wood cuting Tip 101...

    when ever your cuting nice expensive wood, cover your wood with some kind of tape... (i use blue painters tape) it will keep your wood together and keep your splinters to near Zero.. cover it all the way around top and bottom...

    it sounds like a joke but give it a try
    Never Doubt that a small group of thoughtful, .......... /........ If your not going to stand behind our troops
    ...committed people can change the world. ............. /.................Please, Please stand in front of them
    .....Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has............./
    .........................................Margaret Mead

  25. #36
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Jasper, IN
    Posts
    6,947
    Thanks
    8,348
    Thanks Received
    6,860

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by Moparformances View Post
    Wood cuting Tip 101...

    when ever your cuting nice expensive wood, cover your wood with some kind of tape... (i use blue painters tape) it will keep your wood together and keep your splinters to near Zero.. cover it all the way around top and bottom...

    it sounds like a joke but give it a try
    It works.

    Are you going to do any finishing to the front of that? Have you considered staining it? If you want to go with something original I think I have found a type of stain that looks almost like what most machines looked like new.

    It is Minwax Water Based Wood Stain and the color you want is Parchment

    100 machines and counting...

  26. The following 3 users say "Thanks" to mxfaiman


  27. #37
    Eye Shooter Rival's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fishers, Indiana
    Posts
    684
    Thanks
    177
    Thanks Received
    1,985

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by mxfaiman View Post
    It works.

    Are you going to do any finishing to the front of that? Have you considered staining it? If you want to go with something original I think I have found a type of stain that looks almost like what most machines looked like new.

    It is Minwax Water Based Wood Stain and the color you want is Parchment
    Does not the choice of wood for the case have a large effect on the result of any stain used? Obviously, walnut stained with "Parchment" would not look like the original pachinko finish (which to me, looks a lot like maple). At any rate, I do know the rear cabinet frames were made with Japanese mahogany, probably the softest mahogany in existence. Despite the rarity and cost of other mahoganys, Japanese mahogany is considered cheap and inexpensive in Japan, similar to pine in the states, and is even used for shipping pallets. It does however look exceptional when sanded smooth and coated with several layers of glossy sealer such as polyurethane. It is my understanding also that the front cases were not stained, but rather simply coated with lindseed oil, and then varnished. I have rubbed boiled lindseed oil into scratches on front cases and found the match to be outstanding, the only mismatch being the yellowing of the varnish over the last 30-40 years.

  28. #38
    Pachi Puro mxfaiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Jasper, IN
    Posts
    6,947
    Thanks
    8,348
    Thanks Received
    6,860

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by Rival View Post
    Does not the choice of wood for the case have a large effect on the result of any stain used? Obviously, walnut stained with "Parchment" would not look like the original pachinko finish (which to me, looks a lot like maple). At any rate, I do know the rear cabinet frames were made with Japanese mahogany, probably the softest mahogany in existence. Despite the rarity and cost of other mahoganys, Japanese mahogany is considered cheap and inexpensive in Japan, similar to pine in the states, and is even used for shipping pallets. It does however look exceptional when sanded smooth and coated with several layers of glossy sealer such as polyurethane. It is my understanding also that the front cases were not stained, but rather simply coated with lindseed oil, and then varnished. I have rubbed boiled lindseed oil into scratches on front cases and found the match to be outstanding, the only mismatch being the yellowing of the varnish over the last 30-40 years.
    Well if you want to use an actual stain the Minwax looks almost exactly the same. Plus there are some minor differences between natural and stained. It is all up to the person who is restoring it. There are many ways out there but you choose what you like best.

    100 machines and counting...

  29. #39
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    Quote Originally Posted by mxfaiman View Post
    Are you going to do any finishing to the front of that? Have you considered staining it?
    I'm pretty sure the veneer is oak and I like it how it its. Right now the wood is unfinished other than light sanding. I had put a bead of white glue along the top and bottom of the board's edge to keep accidental chips from occurring while in construction.

    The only real critical thing I anticipate is getting the flipper alignment right on the play field. The field perimeter spacers are still in good shape along with their wood alignment pegs. I want to end up with the spacers screwed to the face board, and the play field screwed to the face board through the spacers. That way I can easily change the cell in the future if I want and not have to worry about any alignment.

    I've already worked out a plan of exactly how I'm going to get the top & bottom wood alignment pegs in the right position. I started typing my plan but it's going on 4am and an explanation at this point is useless.

    Here's a couple random pics:
    IMG_2394.jpgIMG_2395.jpg
    The only necessary routing was this ball return slot. My Dremell worked pretty hard for it.

    IMG_2398.jpg

  30. The following 2 users say "Thanks" to SteveFury


  31. #40
    Sandwich Shooter SteveFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    778
    Thanks Received
    1,074

    Default Re: Sanyo versus Nichijin DX

    My 1st Sanyo rebuild is going well.
    The only thing I need to finish it is the playfield acrylic "glass" and to have the playfield cell printed. The cost of the wood ate my budget for the playfield, so that will have to wait until next month.

    I've been very busy in the mean time.
    I've polished all ~230 brass pins with a rag, brasso and a drill. That's the 2nd machine I've done that with and it's WAY too much time and effort. My next project will be to build a tumbler.

    I've been looking and looking locally for the tulip screws. I found a suitable replacement brass screw at a place called "Hobby Lobby". I'm not sure if it's a national chain or not.
    $2 for 60 tiny screws seem reasonable. They also had tiny brass tacks which may work for a Nichijin tulip. (My Nichijin tulips are held by tacks not screws)

    IMG_2424.jpg

  32. The following 3 users say "Thanks" to SteveFury


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. toolbar options?versus tracking cookies
    By rdmkr1 in forum eBay - General Auction listings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-17-2007, 08:50 AM
  2. Skill versus Luck?
    By pukerslaker in forum Modern Pachinko
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-27-2006, 02:50 PM
  3. Universal "Versus" token hopper problem
    By Starchaser in forum Pachislo Modifications
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-09-2005, 02:48 PM
  4. Seven versus Dollars - 7 vs $ - Review
    By Tony Junior in forum Model Talk
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-14-2005, 04:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •