Custom Ball Lifter with worm method

[KimbaWLion]

Impressive job but will it be able to be reproduced at a reasonable cost! It looks great and runs great but I can not see my self making one with ease unless it was a really easy put together kit!

Glad you solved all the problems! It looks AWESOME!

[Moparformances]

really looks great...

amazing job

[WondersPachi]

I would love somebody to remake and sell the Silk Drive one I have seen! It's faster and QUIETER than anything I have seen...

didn't they have patents on them?

[luckydog]

why wrorry about patents

[mrdummy]

To speed up worm lift, there is also similar 1:30 geared motor from same shop. 1:30 has 175-200 balls per minute.
Can change it, but i think ~105 balls per minute should keep up the normal Pachinko operation.
1:50 has max 120 balls per minute, under load it stills make 104 balls per minute.
The standard voltage is 12V, thus it's not too much for motor to run on 12V.

The motor wont get hot, because it's small one with around 150 mA power. That makes low heat and can run long time.
No need to big motors like SPEED500 from Graupner (standard RC racing motor) with high power consumption.

If you build the worm wheel perfect, then the system shall works perfect. It's important you do it right and carefully.
Use drill as support tool can keep the dimensions and curves right.

Must only test the catch tray more with 200 balls, to check the ball jams better. That is only small point here where might going wrong.
The lift itself is strong and no problem with ball insert.
But my friend cannot give me quickly 200 balls, thus there is no other choice than test it on the anime convention...

[Berzerk]

That's right, Mr. Dummy, you've done a great job here but to to really get the proof of concept, you need to test it for several hours with a FULL ball tray. That will reveal if there are any open problems. I'm still concerned about the ramp entry point.

[wibbix]

In regards to the silk drive patent, I went through my business tools to search for any such patent. Both US and Canada. We didn't find anything describing that particular build and lift. Doesn't mean there *isn't* a patent... there could be one. Albeit, improperly written and worthless.

Tons of other pachinko patents, tho. Mostly sequence methods (the way a ball travels through internal mechs) and mass ball handling systems (that make any of our ball lifters look pale in comparison).

For what it's worth, I'm working on my own silk drive with intent on mass production (simple builds) and a more modular approach. My biggest problem is time.


I forgot to add... I wonder if the original statement behind saying there *was* a patent was simply to discourage someone else from duplicating. That would be a shame.

[KimbaWLion]

I mean do not get me wrong! That worm drive lifter is awesome looking and seems to work! Mr. Dummy did an amazing job AND it works! But what I worry bout is I have 11 pachis
already and more coming! I would like to be able to add a few ball lifters and with costs AT LEAST $200 a shot for the orange ones that is JUST not going to happen!
I just do not have the skill or the time to make a worm drive one one shown here, the skill and ingenuity used here impresses me a lot! :-)

I just feel that if somebody could SAY WIBBIX, could modernize and make it modular and get it at a reasonable price I think we could have a winner! If you could make that worm drive a kit and sell it at a reasonable price
that works for me too! I have watched your youtube and the silkdrive youtube a LOT... I so want a ball lifter at a DECENT price... I would rather scoop at this point given the costs...

[mrdummy]

@KimbaWLion

The worm lift needs some work to make it perfect, but it has advantage: you don't need strong motor. A small motor with gearbox is enough to move many balls up.

The silk drive or with special teeth wheel need strong motor, because it must push around 85 cm up. Each ball is 11mm, lets calculate... 77 balls total in pipe to push up.
Weight approx. 5,75 grams x 77 = almost 444 grams. That is not little weight. It must push pretty much weight up.
It's easy construction, but yeah, strong motor is not cheap.

Worm wheel can stopped any time and nothing falls down if you remove motor. It works always with different amount balls. And you can watch the balls in the lift shaft how they are going up, thus it's also showable.

Okay, day 12: 2 hours work.
Have not made much, but i have done research to make perfect light gate. I have already light gate from old project, thus i make it useful for the lift.
The circuit is a bit changed to make sure it has correct sensitivity.

P1000836.jpgP1000838.jpgP1000839.jpgP1000840.jpg
I have added the small plate wood below the outlet hole plate. This holds the light gate circuit to detect ball collision when the hopper is full.

P1000841.jpgP1000842.jpgP1000843.jpgP1000844.jpgP1000845.jpg
I have already pre-made circuits for light gate. It uses cheap NE555 chip.
Because the board is too large, i must make it a bit smaller.

Story continues...

[mrdummy]

P1000846.jpgP1000847.jpgP1000848.jpg
Moves some wires on board, then cut some board ends away. Now it has right dimensions.

P1000849.jpgP1000850.jpgP1000851.jpgP1000852.jpgP1000853.jpgP1000854.jpg
Resoldering light sensor and LED. Then i make the hole in the tube for the light gate.

Story continues...

[mrdummy]

P1000855.jpgP1000856.jpgP1000857.jpgP1000858.jpgP1000859.jpg
I can now test the light gate. But it's not sensitive enough.
I have changed LED to normal diffusion type, which is less bright. The resistior for LED is also raised from 560 to 1k to make it more less bright.
And near adjustable resister i have changed 150k to 1k resistor. The sensitivity is now much bigger. The led goes on when i block the light gate by ~10%.
That small difference is needed to detect ball collision.
Even with TL light is on, the light gate is still working. :-)


Here is video to show the working light gate.

Now the light gate has right adjustment, i can make another ready and continue with the electronics tomorrow.
This is last post, you may now react.

[daverob]

The need for extra sensitivity on the opto-interrupter (light gate) is probably due to you using a white tube, and picking up reflections of the light inside the tube.

I had exactly the same problems while I was evaluating sensors for a ball counter, and changing to a black tube made a big difference to the sensitivity.

I would like to be able to add a few ball lifters and with costs AT LEAST $200 a shot for the orange ones that is JUST not going to happen!
... I just feel that if somebody could SAY WIBBIX, could modernize and make it modular and get it at a reasonable price I think we could have a winner!

I've spent a fair bit of time thinking about ball lifters, and looking at various different types of designs and working out how I'd go about making a small batch of them. The problems are either you have a design like mrdummy's, that doesn't cost a lot for the materials, but needs a lot of skill and many hours to assemble. Or simpler designs that are easier to assemble, but need more expensive parts (more powerful motors, custom cut gearwheels etc).

Every design that I can come up with is going to end up with a retail price of $150+. The only way I can see of making anything significantly cheaper is if I could make (and sell!) enough of them to justify the cost of a small CNC mill or laser cutter, as buying in custom parts is very expensive, and machining them by hand is too time consuming.

[KimbaWLion]

A retail price of $150 is STILL less than one of the orange ones... A worm drive kit would kewl too...
I just would not like to go broke getting lifters...

[luckydog]

the 2 handed shuffle is free

[owennewton]

justify the cost of a small CNC mill or laser cutter

My friend Chuck has a Tree journeyman 325 CNC mill and he called to tell me today he has a laser cutter coming next week If someone had the specs for one of the gear wheels (or better yet a cad file of one) I think I could get him to cut one or two for testing

[WondersPachi]

My friend Chuck has a Tree journeyman 325 CNC mill and he called to tell me today he has a laser cutter coming next week If someone had the specs for one of the gear wheels (or better yet a cad file of one) I think I could get him to cut one or two for testing

From looking and counting the ones on some of the videos on the tube Its a 14 tooth 2in or so sprocket with a completely rounded pitch diameter. I am looking to get my hands on some stainless steel to make a simple gear stacker. I want to build one so bad!

[mrdummy]

I finish first this worm lift, then i try design the cheap ball lift and build one.
I have ordered 400 balls for testing lifting system.

And yes, i check optical gate also again in dark enviroment, but the LED emitting light is already weakened (less reflections) and this is small 11 mm distance, not 50 meter light gate.
Not many people plays in bright daylight but in dimmed room, otherwise you cannot see lights and LCD display animations. And if you built the pachinko in the cabinet, it's already more darker inside :-)

[mrdummy]

I got now 400 balls. When i threw all in the catch tray, there is already ball jam :-)
The worm lift has also problem, some balls fell between guide wires and worm part, and whole lift is blocked.
Good news it can still lift all balls when lift is full of balls.

The worm wheel is not 100% round over all length, there are some uneven wires on some places because it's hand-made worm wheel. This causes i must make some distance between guide wires and worm to prevent collision, but it has also greater chance some balls can fell between.
To prevent such problems, i have now fully sanded down the worm wheel over whole length to make it more perfect round. With this solution, i can put guide wires more closer to worm wheel to prevent ball rolls between worm and guide wires.

The outlet hole of catch tray is indeed too small. When i examined the ball jams. the outlet hole must have more greater hole to let more ball through. This means also i must make new copper wire bridge between lift shaft and catch tray. This wire bridge shall acts as a ball tunnel from wide begin to smaller end. That should prevent ball jams better.
Like long tunnel design in the upper hopper of pachinko. Well, such problems happens when you make a new list system :-)

[Berzerk]

Tweaking a ball lifter to prevent jams is the hardest part of the whole design. My guess is, that the challenge in your design will be narrowing the path down from many balls to one ball. It must be made somehow like in the pachinko machines, though they always work with two lanes which is easier. Good luck.

[mrdummy]

Here i have 2 designs.
Pachinko catch tray 3x3.jpg
From 3x3 to one.

Pachinko catch tray 4x3.jpg
From 4x3 to one.

I shall test it with carton material and gluegun for fast check ball jams in catch tray outlet.
When i found the best solution, i made it with copper wires for final version.

The problem with lift shaft is not big, just make every room between guide wires and worm small as possible, then there shall no problems.