First Machine

[RKnarr01]

Pachislousa.com (Rob) might have some boards from part machines and he's from NY so you might want to try to contact him.

[Tulsa]

I left Rob a link today to this thread and told him he might be interested in reading it. Not sure if he has or not.

[Lddrizzt]

I thought of Rob, but then he is more like a 7 hr drive compared to the 4-5 hours the other two were, but yeah they would be another one to check with. I don't think we have any other good dealers closer than those 3 within a decent driving range.

[deb]

Gary,

Let us know what you think of your NET 7 vs Dollars machine when you get it. I haven't heard anything about it, but did see it on Ebay and on Milt's website. I like Vegas theme machines and I think this one looks nice. I like my NET BlackJack. The Super BlackJack machine might do more, but I love the way the older BlackJack machine looks.

Debbi

[at-slots]

welcome........gerrimat....on your changing sound adventure here.iam game to help u out.iam in phila.pa....i have boards,machines from 94 up (maybe earlier then 94.....lol).....i can throw a...... lol....junk.....(nothing is junk) machine together with no problem.i even have a double challenge with no sound.i dont know how long this adventure would take..... but iam in for it.....now for that 7 vs dollars net machine....i have one.......good machine.....nice sound....i like the red lights that appear between the reels in all different angles.........at-slots

[azlew]

.......i can throw a...... lol....junk.....(nothing is junk) machine together

Just curious at-slots if you have had a chance to inventory your "Junk" ?

[at-slots]

nope...way to much...JUNK...one of these days...MAYBE...iam trying though...but remember nothing is junk...............at-slots

[keesterdog]

i inventory my junk quite frequently. it never changes. but it does get sore :oops:

[TatooedLady]

[gerrimat]

Hi Gang, At-Slots thank you for the offer. I'm trying to pick up a 'parts'
machine right now. And I would like to start with a pcb or two to do
the analysis on. A machine without sound would be an excellent place
to start. The machine I'm trying to get is a Savana Chance that is only
partially functional. Also I can hardly wait to get my hands on the Net
machine.

Anyway, I have been examining the photos on PachisloUSA's site and
I'm beginining to notice a distinct commonality in the pcb's mounted in
the different machine pictures. I am guessing at this point that in most cases the manufacturers will run a pcb set across as many at 5 to 15 machine types in the same series. From the pictures I have observed that by dating the machines its possible to detect a redesign on the main cpu board about every 2 to 3 years. More common boards such as those in the coin detectors or front panel button boards probably change more slowly.

Why do all you cats think that the NET and IGT machines are built so
much better than the rest of the pack? Also are all of the IGT machines
'Credit Only' or do some have a 'Coin In/Out Feature'.

[at-slots]

gary i just remembered i also have a IGT JOKERS WILD about a 96 model that works all except the sound......the double challenge is a 2000 or 2001 model......so let me know how you make out on that SAVANA CHANCE machine.......IGTs and NETS ARE GOOD LOOKING MACHINES.......more like AMERICAN casino type looking machines......that IGT RED WHITE AND BLUE SEVEN IS A BEAUTIFUL LOOKING MACHINE....GOT 3 OF THEM IN PIECES....should be able to get one up and going ...what iam finding out is the coin detectors stay the same for the most part but the plugs...... change running into that now on some electrocoin and macy type machines....credit IGT ???? all my IGT machines are token in token out machines......as far as i know all these machines have a credit up to 50 coins....if that is what u ment buy a credit.................at-slots

[cwstnsko]

I haven't owned a NET machine yet, but I have two IGTs. The machines don't appear to be physically any better or worse than any other, but the play is pretty good, even without fancy screens and such.

The "best" built chassis I have ever seen is the split door Olympia. After looking at it fro a while, it appears to be built to allow casinos to quick-change out the game part of the machine without moving the case, power supply, hopper, coins etc. By unhooking a few connectors and releasing a few spring clips, the whole upper half of the machine slides right out nicely contained in a separate sub-frame. On the lower half, you just pop of the belly panel and the generic chassis sits there waiting for a new personality :-)

The only other machine I've seen that is significantly different from most is the Pioneer. It has a completely different style hinge, and the door has a particle board frame attached to the backside of the door. I wouldn't call this chassis better or worse, just more unique than most.

There are several brands I've never owned, so I'm sure there are others worth mentioning.

[at-slots]

hey keesterdog......u got junk ?.....i buy junk !!!!!......how much junk u got ?........i like a hundred or more machines and parts at a time to make it worth my wild...........anybody know where i can get more junk ?........at-slots

[gerrimat]

At-slots, I will keep you informed on the status of my parts machine
purchase. In the interum, My reference Coin/In/Out play is related
to a statement that I picked up on another discussion that IGT machines
will only play in credit mode, unlike the Vegas Slots that are direct
pull the handle and get a payout always. I have culled out of the
herd a few machines that I am attracted to such as:

Sakura Fubuki
Red Pulsar
Versus
Thunder
Neo

My problem is very limited space in my very huge house since I moved
my mom and dad in with me and dumped my gameroom full of junk
to move their 50+ years of junk into my space. I also have a 1982
Trans Am in my garage that I am restoring (my original with 65k miles)
and a tractor with 3 motors and all kinds of other crap. My office
computer room is a garbage dump full of computers and parts but I
still manage to clean off my work bench for play time.

As an example of my dilema in chosing machines to acquire is that I like
the machines that allow 1 to 3 coin play verus Max Bet. Although if the
machine is really much like a Vegas Slot I can live with Max Bet.
Since this whole excersize is to learn as much about the machines as
possible I figure that knowing how a machine triggers its coin functions
versus its credit functions is critical to figuring out the Microprocessors
decision tables. Also how much I/O a machine supports and how they
link the 3 major subsystems coin feeder, coin dump hopper and reel
controls button inputs.

In the case of the Red Pulsar machine I have seen to types the first
which is 1 to 3 coin has a White strip on the right side of the wheel
window that has reel symbols on it. Then there is the 2nd variation that
I have found that is Max Bet Only and the White strip has been removed
and a Gold Foil Tag with the Manufacturers Name has been place over
the window. I think I've got this right, I'm also relying on the decriptions
from the vendors selling the machines.

Programming isn't the only factor in changing a machines personality
it has to also involve the I/O ports on the CPU board. If you dead end
a signal input it has to be tied to something either +5v or Ground.

Anyway this is the level of investigation that I am presently at without
having my hands on a machine yet.

I'll keep you informed no my status on the parts machine.

[pachislousa]

Well, this sounds like a great idea! I have done my share of hardware and software reversing, but have no formal background in electronics...

A lot of the games by the same company do share the same boards; you can simply swap out the roms in a pinch.

Here's where my main interest comes in: I'm still very interested in hacking the starnovax chip that is the brains of every newer pachislo machine. Older machines used a seperate z80 chip and 2764 rom. From what I've gathered from a japanese site, the starnovax chip is merely a z80 controller with integrated 2764 and possibly CTC / other chips.. You 'should' be able to cut the pins that compromise the 2764 portion, run the wires to an eprom reader to read the code, and piggyback a 2764 chip onto the starnovax that has modified code in it. This would allow mofication of the payout amounts, removal of max bet only, and allow for more than 99 credits.

Sounds hard? Not really...

I've had some luck in changing the payout amount and allowing for more than 99 credits already.... (On an older machine, and only twice though.. the machine reads and stores the rom (in static ram???) I can't get it to reliably read my rom changes... I can stick a blank eprom in the slot, and the machine still plays most of the time.) Not enough time to play with it lately...

[arbycoffee]

very cool Robert!

[at-slots]

gary.....first on the trans-am 1982 first year of that body style....never had that body style....always had the 81 down versions....back to the machines....i have 2 up and running sakara-fabuki machines up and runnig....i think i have 2 more some where that i havent opened up yet with a golgo 13 and a sumo wrestler....have 3 newer red pulsars up and running.....got 4 or 5 older ones that i didnt even look at yet either.....i think i have 2 versus machines.....havent looked at them yet.....got about 5 thunders older versions.....same havent opened them up.....get this i dont have a neo ?????....well i really dont recall having one.........the golgo 13 sumo wrestler and the sakura-fabuki are all on the same type machine......i have one of each in my personal collection at home..........that is always a problem finding space............maybe iam misunderstanding the pay-out thing.....every machine that i have pays out coins at 51 credits.......if i dont feel like playing the fifty stored credits i just press the cancel button or payout button then the 50 coins stored as credits comes out....................keep in touch...................at-slots

[Bobby Bowling]

I've had some luck in changing the payout amount and allowing for more than 99 credits already.... (On an older machine, and only twice though.. the machine reads and stores the rom (in static ram???) I can't get it to reliably read my rom changes... I can stick a blank eprom in the slot, and the machine still plays most of the time.) Not enough time to play with it lately...

Chances are there is a checksum stored in the PROM. If you make changes the CPU won't recognize it. If you make changes that add up to the same checksum it will work; for example, changing an 00 to 02 and an 06 to an 04 would result in the same checksum. The best way is to find the imbedded checksum and change it to the new value.

I learned this 16-years ago when I started hacking on the computer in my '87 IROC-Z, which by the way is stripped to the unibody in my garage at the moment (32k original miles).

[bard]

Gary:

I see your relay board schematic. . . did you ever get any others done?
If one were to send you PCBs would they be returned intact (working)???

Please advise. Thanks