Yeah, a cook book...Sounds like a good idea to me Arby...Maybe he could put in a good Chili recipe? :lol:
Yeah, a cook book...Sounds like a good idea to me Arby...Maybe he could put in a good Chili recipe? :lol:
Opinions from pachitalk.com
Hello, everyone.
I am quite surprised by the sentiments expressed here. While I can appreciate your concern, some people here seem pretty quick to jump to opinions without thinking first.
Some posts state that my book is "a waste of money" and will cover nothing that isn't here. I'm happy that you can make judgements without first obtaining information. I'm also pleased that this forum knows everything there is to know about pachislots. Perhaps there are people who work in the industry in Japan that have more information, or those who will take the time to research it?
As for "your book is a bad idea", the same thing applies. Why are you making such broad statements without first researching it? Afraid that your liberties will be taken away? Perhaps, before you start condeming my work, you will think first.
Pachislots are not casino slots as are found in North America. They are created under different legislation and would not, in any regards, be legal to use IN A CASINO ENVIRONMENT in the US or Canada. The casino games in North America don't work even remotely close to the pahcislots. The men & black machine does not involve eye-shooting. This is not legal over here. However, a comparison of the technology is fair. They are both complex machines. Pachislots are very complex, sophisticated amusement machines. They use very elaborate methods to work. It's worth discussing. In doing show, it can be shown how they are not Las Vegas machines, but are only for home fun.
The pachislots do involve some level of skill, and the player does have some control over the outcome. The fearmongers can rest easy - I am giving an honest, correct portrayal of the machines. Personally, why would slot machines not be legal for home use in every state? Do you not have decks of cards or dice at home? Anyone that uses a slot machine at home for gambling purposes deserves to be charged with the offence. That's plain stupidity. If you have a slot machine or a pachislo or pachinko in your own home for enjoyment, have fun. Can you not play slots, roulette, etc. on your home computer?
No, the pachislots will not be shown as gambling devices, simply because they are not. They are different machines. Rest easy.
As for the people who are quick to knock the work of others without first asking questions, please, spare me your doom. Let's have an educated discussion here. In short, I think this book will go a long way to legitimize the pachislot machines for home use, and give actual, hard facts to support this conclusion. Comments like I have received will only negate these endeavours.
All I ask is that you give me a fair chance, and don't run down my work before you see what happens. If you have any input or thoughts, I welcome that. Offering to put me in your book "Take & Takers" just doesn't make sense. Please do your research or ask before you make comments like that. All it can do is show that knee-jerk reactions are taking place. It doesn't make your case any stronger. I fail to see how you can condemn me to taking away from your enjoyment when you haven't seen what I am doing.
In short, I think you will be pleased with how the pachislots appear in the book. Let's work together to make a factual, honest case for these machines.
It is funny how if a person disagrees with you it is negative. Not their opinion, they have a right to.
Your statement“Personally, why would slot machines not be legal for home use in every state? Do you not have decks of cards or dice at home? “.
Shows that you are not very knowledgeable concerning the laws on Gambling devices and how they read. It is all about loss of Revenues. They want the money in their coffers, not you staying home and playing your machine. They are hooked on the percentage of all the moneys that move thru gambling.
Money, that’s what the politician see. It looks like, it spins like, it has to be. If it is in your book, so it becomes the same as american slots. Do think a politician is going to read it, no but they will hold it up and say “see they are in with american slots, it is illegal too!”.
You are looking at it through rose colored glasses. Not the reality of life and how it will be used.
We are in the real world, sorry but what I read above is in the fantasy of the education world. I know there is nothing I can say to stop you, but I donÂ’t want anything I say in it (and I will look, because money is the key). I see it as you are doing it to make money, at our expense.
All that have wrote books about like type specialty items, have ended up costing those in use of the items, more money. If gaming wasnÂ’t the craze, I am sure you would not be writing this book.
I am not a "word smith", sorry if mine doesn't read as well.
"This is My Personal Opinion and no others"
Arby wrote:
This is a very big point. I am also worried some politician, with his panties all caught up in a bunch, will make it his cause de jour to make Pachi's illegal in my state. We are better off if no comparisons are made to Vegas slots and keep our hobby on the down-low!!! :-)Money, that’s what the politician see. It looks like, it spins like, it has to be. If it is in your book, so it becomes the same as american slots. Do think a politician is going to read it, no but they will hold it up and say “see they are in with american slots, it is illegal too!”.
Personally, I'm not one for politics or politicians...to California with 'em all. Why? Because they don't present ALL the facts, as are pertinent to making an informed decision. They present the 'facts' that are convenient to them getting whatever bill/law passed as they want.
That said, the book in question could sway things either way. Say it's the PERFECT book, with all the needed info in it to prove the point that they're not gambling devices, but games of skill, and should not be tossed in with the Vegas slots, blah, blah, blah.....That's great and all, but I'm figuring that there will be things taken out of context, since it's in print, and printed by an 'authority' on the subject....and used AGAINST the owners of pachis, to make them illegal to own, even if it's token in/out.
Assuming it's a LOUSY book, and is only gives half the facts, or is misleading, or whatever....they could quote it all day long and screw up pachi owners but good, and say "it MUST be true, it's written by an authority on the subject!"
It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. All we can do is offer what we know, as a group, and hope that the person voicing the information to the general public does a great job representing a minority.
Kelly
Marine Carnival, Kiwame
azlew (me ) said :
.....I know you won't have to worry about getting input....
See I told you :wink:
I know you will sell at least one book to a Pachitalk.com member as he will be checking up on you and what you say in it :lol:
Lew you always look for the soft spot in the day :wink:
Big brother paranoia
Whoa! Hold on a second here. Now, in case you haven't noticed, I'm on your side. My comment about slots that should be legal everywhere - not 'through rose colored glasses'. It's a fact. I don't see why (personal opinion here) they should be outlawed anywhere. And no, I don't think it's about money. I don't think that anyone thinks it's money that is staying out of the casinos. It's different.
I really don't think that politicians are chomping at the bit to ban pachislot machines and just waiting for the right amunition. I think there are bigger issues, and the pachislo industry really isn't that big of a concern for anyone.
Yes, I do have contacts in the gaming industry, including gaming commissions and politicians. However, my writing is respected by those in the industry. If I write about how pachislo machines are really amusement devices, and not North American casino-type machines, it's not a case of taking this out of context. I know how casino machines are designed, programmed and how they work. Pachislo machines are different. The laws in Japan are different. There are 100 things that I could name off the top of my head that differentiate the two, and mean that pachislo machines are not the same.
I was looking for input from the average person who likes pachislo games and maybe owns one (or ten) of them. I want to show how average people have a hobby that they find fun. I am looking for input to help out the hobby, not hurt it.
I am not looking to make money at your expense. Who is wearing rose colored glasses now?
As I see it, by cooperating here, we can ensure that the proper picture is given of the hobby. I know the inner workings of the pachislo machine, and have a number of contacts in Japan and some close contacts who are developers of these machines. And yes, I am afraid that I do have some information that this forum doesn't. But, my intention is not to harm anyone here. As for putting your words in the book, I have never misquoted anyone yet, and I always obtain permission before printing quotes from people, so you can rest assured that won't happen.
If you would like to work with me and make sure that the proper message, the real message goes out, I'm very interested in listening to you and working with you. Why not have a chapter featuring the pachitalk.com forum and showing the great interest in the hobby and great people that are here? There are forums for car enthusiasts, bridge groups, just about everything else out there. Why not have some positive exposure of the pahcislo owners?
Let me know what you think. If you really don't want to take part in it, I don't mind going elsewhere and leaving well enough alone here. I'm not in this to hurt anyone or cause them concern.
The reason PachiTalk exists in the first place is to better the hobby and the information available to all of us. Some, who've been around a bit have had to struggle early on and learn all we could on our own. We opened up shop to further that knowledge base and expand the available information to everyone.
You must tread lightly though when dealing with a group of people who've seen the seedier side trying to make a quick buck come and go. So basically we stay a bit guarded till we know with whom we're dealing.
You won't find a better source than PachiTalk for this desire. You will find literally hundreds of people who meet your criteria. All from varying backgrounds, and reasons for our interests. This number is growing daily. You may get your information from direct questions or from our previous writings. With almost 20,000 posts I'm sure there will be something of interest for you.I was looking for input from the average person who likes pachislo games and maybe owns one (or ten) of them. I want to show how average people have a hobby that they find fun. I am looking for input to help out the hobby, not hurt it.
We however would also expect a little give and take. Our goal as stated is to further our personal knowledge. So some snipets of information from that you don't see posted would certainly be appreciated. I would hate to think you wouldn't share freely and opening with us also.
Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.
I think that one of the key areas that should be considered when a state decides whether privately owned pachislos are legal or illegal is how they are used in the home. And, I hope you cover this in your book. Here's an example of what I mean:
In Indiana the law is a little gray. A pachislo "could" be considered a gambling device because it takes and pays out tokens. These tokens "could" be considered a thing of value. That is, you could charge people for the tokens and cash them in.
However, in home use, most people have containers of tokens sitting out in the open, and keys hanging on cords attached to each machine, allowing anyone to take tokens out of the machine. Under those conditions tokens obviously have no value at all. Pick any house at random. If there's a deck of cards in that house, it is far more likely that the deck of cards will be used for gambling, than it is that someone's pachislo collection will be used for gambling.
.
Gary
=================================
"The only way to win is to own the casino."
.....For a list of machines owned, see my profile.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Yes, this is the input I am looking for. And yes, a mish-mash of various tokens is worthless. Open containers, and from what I've seen, many machines don't even use locks. I think there was a pachinko photo somewhere here where the machines had a modification to use a dog-collar to pull open the door without the aid of a key.Originally Posted by gwarzin
How many homes with pachislo and kids have tokens spread all over the house and kids playing store with them? I would imagine quite a few.
My reference to cards & dice is for that very point. People can have poker parties on a Friday night and play for cash (even nickel and dime games). But, I would doubt many people actually use quarters in their machines. Perhaps some do, but to fill a machine with 400 quarters takes $100. And, as you said, buckets of tokens laying around ....
Sure. I have been researching Japanese laws, but it is a tedious and difficult task. I did find out one thing, which perhaps you already know?
There are AT (Assist Time) games and ST (Stock Time) and CT (Challenge time) models available. IGT's Austin Powers is a stock time, where there machine can stock up the wins and then pay off larger bonuses. In recent regulations, all of these modes are now illegal in Japan. As a result, the games that you see over here with AT, ST and CT will become much rarer as time goes on. There won't be any new models with these features. Perhaps you already know this, but it was new information to me.
very interesting never knew what stock time, etc ment.
We knew what they were but didn't know that they have become illegal in Japan. When did this take place?
IGT's 2004 Dance Night is an AT machine
NET's 2004 Deka Dan is an AT machine
Also as far as I can tell IGT's 2003 Austin Powers is not an ST machine.
Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.
FYI...
Regarding restrictions on the ST and AT, I understand it this way.
The machine cannot have the so-called "sub-mother board" that is believed to control the ST and the AT. A tricky thing is, this new regulation does not mention the terms, "ST" or "AT," but just bans equipping the sub-mother board.
I myself don't know what will exactly result from this new regulation -- it is said that the ST and the AT no longer survive, but nobody knows what changes will occur upon game play (and machine design) except for the developers.
To answer Tulsa's question, this regulation took effect last August in 2004. The models that have been approved by then can circulate in the market in Japan until the license expires. However, 2005 models are all subject to it. I've heard there are already a few models produced and approved by the new regulation. I don't know the names of those models.
Hope this helps...
gaku
As always, Gaku's right on top of it. Thanks buddy! 8-)
Meanwhile, somewhere in Oklahoma.
Even those of us who've discussed having "pachi parties" don't offer to do so to make money. We're simply showing off our collections, like anyone does with boats, cars, motorcycles, new mistress, etc. We're not out to make money off them, but we're more than willing to share the fun/excitement with everyone (or almost everyone) we know. If we hide the keys instead of having them on the back of the machine, consider: do we have children that would happily play for HOURS after bedtime? Or do we have people/pets in the house that see tokens as fun, exciting, shiny items that should be stuffed under the bed in an old shoe?
Everyone's got their reasons for collecting....and I was told by my boyfriend's aunt "people that collect STUFF usually collect SMALL things! Figurines, books, candles...." she thought I was NUTS when she saw 5 machines sitting in my livingroom...she should know better...I was nuts LONG before any pachis came to live here! :twisted:
Kelly
Marine Carnival, Kiwame
Exactly! That's how I see the hobby - as a hobby. Jut like online computer games, bridge parties, model railways, etc. A hobby to have some fun. It's like having people over to play a board game, but this is more exciting. Im certainly never going to suggest that they are used for money makers, not even for a charity even to raise money. That's not how they are used.
Re: Pachislo book
Can you list these articles and where they can be found ? Many of us would like to read your background in your writing.
Well, IÂ’ve got to chime in here on the side of ICS.
As noted, this forum itself does just what ICS’s book will—and it is available for free by anyone with a computer and internet connection—so what exactly is the beef? You “fear mongers,” as ICS termed it, should really concentrate on more productive means of expressing your fears, and that is not by writing here but by corresponding with your elected representatives as I have. You may be surprised at what you learn—I certainly was.
Yes, this site has a wealth of information and people [usually] willing to help; however, IÂ’ve only asked one [non-rhetorical] question here and it has yet to be responded to but legal issues I mentioned in my post for clarity have received numerous responses. (This is certainly different from other forums I belong to where threads are locked when the discussion goes off-topic.) Finding information here is somewhat difficult as the search engine has much to be desired, the posted subject of threads are often vague or misleading, and the threads often go WAY off-topic. This will only worsen as the number of threads increase. A book with an index would certainly make finding information easier.
Just my two tokens worth.
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