euromat miniature pinball? anyone near quebec?

[TilionMtl]

I surely can help you with the pieces you have, can call you on the phone, it could be easier and will be my pleasure (but maybe not your) to talk again to you

I think next time I ship something using Fedex, I'm gonna put a device so if the box is damaged and tear off, metal spikes or darts will be shoot through the opening and puncture the guy, and a recorded message will play, saying that the guy have 60 minutes left to contact the shipper before the deadly poison become active. This way, we will know what they are doing with the packages.

[outdoorenth]

Hope you get it up and running smoothly and don't find any more damage. It looks like a really cool machine.

[mudfud]

the mirrors are all intact!!

turns out that there must have been a broken mirror in the past, as I found a few pieces with yellow on them, like the stickers on the back mirrors (had me worried)

I played jigsaw and found

extra broken mirror pieces
one piece of broken plastic (prob from the front window)
broken ceramic from the plug outlet (not needed, as I will rewire to a US plug)
pieces of the red lamp that was in the top of the unit (no biggie either, as I can easily replace both of them to match, maybe with a red LED).

I found where the relay went (far left socket), as well as the hoop wire that is supposed to keep in place.

I am thinking about what kind of plastic to use for the front. if I replace with acrylic, I could heat and bend to fit the arc, but I will need to make a mold for it to bed around. alternately, I may try some thinner, more flexible plastic, print the design on paper or mylar, and sandwich it between two sheets.

a trip to TAP plastics soon.

when I get off work in the AM, I will recheck things for shorts, and plug her in to see what happens. hopefully, no

[mudfud]

broken parts pix.

I cut out the european prong plug to eliminate the ceramic socket.

transformer is rigged for 110 anyhow. spliced the old cord for 110 back on.

found some lexan that should bend enough at .09 inch thickness

one of my work buddies suggested using decal to cut the designs and stick them on the plastic.

going to sleep a few hours, then to plug her in. if you hear of a powersurg in salinas, you'll know what happened...

[compirate]

Nurse! Hot glue, STAT!

[mudfud]

ell, I was the human sewing machine last night with all the assaults

[TilionMtl]

broken parts pix.

I cut out the european prong plug to eliminate the ceramic socket.

transformer is rigged for 110 anyhow. spliced the old cord for 110 back on.

found some lexan that should bend enough at .09 inch thickness

one of my work buddies suggested using decal to cut the designs and stick them on the plastic.

going to sleep a few hours, then to plug her in. if you hear of a powersurg in salinas, you'll know what happened...

Ok.. because there's young children coming here, and to not be banned for the rest of my life from here, I will call the censure to the rescue.. so


B B B B B B B B B B B E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !


Now that the swearing has been done... When I received the machine, I vacuum it a bit because there was dust inside the wooden cabinet on the bottom.. there was also a little piece of mirror, but this piece was not coming from the 4 mirrors, I also suspect that there was a mirror before and this one as been broken and replaced. The four mirrors you should have are two square (mostly) ones, and two rectangular ones with the yellow stickers.

You probably already figured out about them, but just in case you are wondering how they slide in the wooden tracks, the one where I put some tape and writing, here is a picture:

Mirrors.jpg

I don't understand how the european has been destroyed like that, even the screws are bent. Here's a pic of what it look like before:

plug.jpg

As you can see, the electric wire go outside and pass between the front and back side of the wooden box. It was a bit damaged, so for safety purpose, I removed the short part up to where the wire was damaged, and rewired it into the european socket. the red wire was not connected. This is how I found that the ceramic part (not the plastic part) was in two pieces, but tightly held together by the screws in the wooden frame. Well, honestly, even if they would have drop the box, the exterior of the machine would have been damaged, but not the internal part.

Here's a pic of the inside, if it can help. I have really large photos of inside and outside, if you need them MudFud. I can send them by email.

back.jpg

Is it possible that the custom open the box to see what was inside, and decided to remove the cardboard around the machine and look inside the machine? I still can't figure out how the light bulb has been broke.

Did you found the ball in the foam over the mirror?

For the front, I think the thinner Plexiglas would work well. Because the curve of the front glass is not really big, I've done the following before and it work well:

You can stuck the edges of the Plexiglas between two slice of wood, have them a bit closer than the width of the Plexiglas, then use a hair dryer or maybe a paint remover gun to get the Plexiglas hot a bit, then let it cool, squeeze the wooden slices again, warm the Plexiglas, let it cool.. something like this (side view animation):

bend_plexyglass.gif

Hope this can help. Because the Plexiglas surface is large, a hot air paint remover gun would probably work better. also, you would probably have to only use it using a top to bottom movement, no side to side movement. Need to also not stay at the same place for two long.

But well, honestly, I don't know why I give you some ideas on how to do it, after I saw what you accomplish with your transparent powerflash mod, I'm not really in a position to give you ideas heheheheh

[mudfud]

just got back from my first plug in.

nothing happened ?

I tried the front flipper switch, but it is not turning on. wish I had a wiring diagram.

at least it didn't blow up.

all 3 fuses are good. seems like the start is not making contact...

off to debug. darn it. it was working when TM had it

[mudfud]

progress!

I found a board plug that was part way disconnected. reseated that.

I then cleaned the other plugs and reattached.

now, by pressing the front flipper button, the solenoid activates and the game is in play mode. the "flippers" all work.

I can get the center pop bumper and the center and back scoring bumpers to activate. the lights increment the score appropriately, with a few burned bulbs.

the front, green?, bumpers don't do anything. say TM, were those supposed to give any scoring? I will go back now and study your video for the way it used to play.

yeahhhh it's almost there!

p.s. I also figured out how the bottom circuit board is supposed to swing up to vertical position. much more space down there, and I can access the relays, fuses and transformer now.

[TilionMtl]

Ok, here is a pic to help you I hope.

gameplay.jpg

Note that the central "Add +10 to tower" should have been read to back display or back column, not tower..

Sorry coffee deficiency this morning...

I put what I think should be the color of the light bulbs, but I'm not totally sure about the Yellow and Red ones, you will have to do test, the two yellow may be red, and the 3 red may be yellow.. I don't recall the points add, but here is a cheating tip you can do: Open the back of the machine, remove the mirrors, pick up the ball and start the game, now touch the towers and so on using the ball, the ball need to do contact with the tower and base floor, this is how the machine know something happen. Maybe I'm wrong on the colors, but I think the bulbs have been mixed here and there.. You can pick up a bulb from the front points display just over the circuit board, and use it in the tower, I didn't tried that, but they seem to be the same.

Here's the game play:

Remember that points (with buzz sound) are registered ONLY when the touched tower is light up, this mean that if you hit the bottom towers 10000 times but they are not turned on, no points are registered.

The thing I'm sure:

The two targets at the back center as shown in the pic add +10 to the back column display with number 10, 20, 30.. up to 100 and the two arrow pointing down.

For every 10 points registered anywhere, you will hear a "ding".

For 100 points, you get a free game.

Now for the towers. As you can see in the pic, the two back towers are green, this is because they are the ones continuously turned on, and you will get +1 points and buzz sound when touch.

Now the tricky part... When you touch the left and right most target, the machine momentary turn off the green towers, and turn on the yellow or red towers. while these towers are turned on, you will be able to register +5 or +10 points and hear the buzz sound, but only while they are lit.

I am not sure about which ones are red or yellow. I don't remember and with the burned one, it's harder, sorry.. I think when the central bumper is touched, the yellow one are turned on momentary, but it maybe for every 10 points registered too, I'm not sure.

I suspect that the ones that turn on for the shorter time during game play are the red ones because they give too much points in a single shot, so they must be harder to get points from them.

To know which ones are red or yellow, I suggest you pick up the ball as I said, start the game, touch the tower switchers targets (left most and right most target), you will see which towers turn on then off. repeat the movement but quickly touch the tower and floor with the ball while the tower is lit. You will probably need help from your better half to see what points are registered at the same time.

I've done that with bare hands, I'm not dead (well.. I think so), I suspect the volt on the base and floor must be really low.. Can't say for the internal part like transformer... If I'm not wrong, the bulb are 7 volts. Hope this help.

I have other videos, not really good.. if you need them let me know.

[mudfud]

I think that the towers are scoring correctly, after studying your video.

question: if you get a credit for 100 score, how does it keep track? does it just pull the timer for another round, right then, before finishing current round? I did not see a credit counter (and was thinking how to add one)

#2 are the lights at the top supposed to go off when the game is done? right now one is broken and they seemed wired in series (rather odd), so they are both out. otherwise, I was thinking to wire a GAME OVER, and PLAY light to show when the time is done.

#3 did claude say how it used to work, when it had a coin acceptor? I see how the front button is wired, and the flyer that I found at ipdb says it would let you start game from a credit. so, I was guessing there was another switch that the coin tripped, that gave a credit that you then had to start the game.

#4 do you think there is any reason to de-wire the front flipper from the reset function? it automatically responds to the ball hitting it, and this was the way it functioned from factory (again, from brochure and idpb writeup). if I wanted it to function as a 3rd flipper, I could dewire the reset and have another switch?

thanks for the help. I was finally making progress yesterday, after a disappointing start.

I am off to the plastic store for polycarbonate and radio shack or hardware store to find bulbs. the tricky one may be the top "red" ones, as these are rated 14 volts? maybe radio shack has those, ones that they sell for projects with the brown ceramic base, maybe I can find 12 volt ones.

[TilionMtl]

#1: I'm not sure how the 100 points count is kept. according to the flyer, the 100 is continuously recorded by an electromagnetic counter (when appropriately switched). in an other switch position, when 100 has been scored a free game can be given. I suppose the electromagnetic counter is a relay.

this doesn't say if it's automatic or if there's a switch for the deluxe version you have.

I don't know if the clock ticking is there for any reason or just for sound. I did not investigate this part of the machine.

#2: The two big red light at the top turn when game start, and turn off when game end. you know your game end when light turn off.

If they are in serie, then the volt on the track is probably 28v.. I'm a bit surprise they are in serie.. weird.. but actually, it was pretty common to wire stuff in serie for machine of these age.. I remember when I was a child I could hear my dad swearing because one of the bulb of the christmas lights was burned, and he had to try to change every bulb to find out the burned one. You can keep the bulb as game on/game off display. If each one are 14v, maybe you can put two 7volts in serie on each side.

#3 I didn't talk to Claude, never saw him actually, since my mother picked up the machine and bring it to me. You may contact him for this information.

4# I thought that the coin mechanism was rewired to the front button to activate the machine. Inserting a coin would turn on the game and you can play with three flippers if wanted. I may be wrong. I don't remember if more than two wires is connected to the front button, maybe a third wire was taken from the coin mechanism switch and connected directly to the button.

What I would do if the machine is mine: If there more than two wires, I would try to find which wire is use to start the machine, and use a micro-switch along a track to reuse the coin mechanism. Maybe just a track going from coin-in to coin-out on the front, and put a micro-switch on this track. So the same coin could be use over and over. Right now the way the machine is wired, if you play with the three flippers you never know when the game end because you keep resetting it with the front button.

I would keep the front flipper auto play function, not disabling it. It's more easy when the front flipper play itself, but I sometime, the flipper decide to bump and bump and bump the ball in straight line, so I push the front button earlier or keep it pushed to change the ball path.

[mudfud]

#1: I'm not sure how the 100 points count is kept. according to the flyer, the 100 is continuously recorded by an electromagnetic counter (when appropriately switched). in an other switch position, when 100 has been scored a free game can be given. I suppose the electromagnetic counter is a relay.

this doesn't say if it's automatic or if there's a switch for the deluxe version you have.

I don't know if the clock ticking is there for any reason or just for sound. I did not investigate this part of the machine.

I will look around to see if anything gets activated when I score 100. would be nice if it was like a credit

the ticking is the timing unit. pretty cool design, actually. I will post closeups later. there is solenoid that pulls switches closed and starts the "clock". there is a pendulum you can move the weight up and down to make for longer or shorter time period of play.

#2: The two big red light at the top turn when game start, and turn off when game end. you know your game end when light turn off.

If they are in serie, then the volt on the track is probably 28v.. I'm a bit surprise they are in serie.. weird.. but actually, it was pretty common to wire stuff in serie for machine of these age.. I remember when I was a child I could hear my dad swearing because one of the bulb of the christmas lights was burned, and he had to try to change every bulb to find out the burned one. You can keep the bulb as game on/game off display. If each one are 14v, maybe you can put two 7volts in serie on each side.

just got back from radio shack. they did not have candelabra bulbs, so I bought 2 lamp holders to swap to E11? flashlight bulb size screw in. then 2 - 14 volt bulbs to replace the stock ones. should work. yes, I remember the days of light bulbs in series on the Xmas trees... what a pain in the @@@!

#3 I didn't talk to Claude, never saw him actually, since my mother picked up the machine and bring it to me. You may contact him for this information.

emailed him already. waiting for reply

4# I thought that the coin mechanism was rewired to the front button to activate the machine. Inserting a coin would turn on the game and you can play with three flippers if wanted. I may be wrong. I don't remember if more than two wires is connected to the front button, maybe a third wire was taken from the coin mechanism switch and connected directly to the button.

What I would do if the machine is mine: If there more than two wires, I would try to find which wire is use to start the machine, and use a micro-switch along a track to reuse the coin mechanism. Maybe just a track going from coin-in to coin-out on the front, and put a micro-switch on this track. So the same coin could be use over and over. Right now the way the machine is wired, if you play with the three flippers you never know when the game end because you keep resetting it with the front button.

I like the idea of putting it back to coin op with the coin recirculating. maybe I can get a german coin of the correct size to make it authentic? anyone know what coin, in 1964, was about the size of a quarter? LD?

I would keep the front flipper auto play function, not disabling it. It's more easy when the front flipper play itself, but I sometime, the flipper decide to bump and bump and bump the ball in straight line, so I push the front button earlier or keep it pushed to change the ball path

I agree that having the middle flipper automatic is probably better. it is the stock way, anyhow, and what gets the ball started when you energize the machine.

maybe there is a credit switch/jumper in the back that is set so the machine is free play. the switch and wire to the white push button looks stock, so it was the credit button originally.

thanks for the detailed help.

I bought 2 sheets of polycarbonate, one is 1/16 and one is 1/8. plan to print the graphics and sandwich between the two... where is johnnynormal these days? he's my print buddy and photoshop expert!

also, I found out, after I bought the sheets, that acrylic is actually more scratch resistant than polycarb. darn it, I thought it was the other way around. polycarb is much more break proof, so future fedex shippers will not be able to break this euromat. I bought 3 sheets of polycarb for pachinkos, and now I know I should have just stayed acrylic... oh well. the shop manager showed me lots of cool stuff and printers and laser cutters, as well as different kinds of plastic and laminated stock and decal stuff, so I learned a LOT about what the print shops can do.

will post more pix after I get all the light bulbs in place, change the upper sockets and work on scanning and printing the graphic.

I love working on these old machines, especially when it goes well and starts to work again. I plan to drag the euromat to santa cruz next visit with my electronics engineer, so he can help me understand the counting circuits in this game. I did not see any rotating stepper type circuit, so somehow the scores get added up with relays?

maybe someone with a wood rail pin knows about this?

[TilionMtl]

well, for the polycarbonate being less scratch resistant than acrylic, I wouldn't be too much afraid since nothing come in contact with them for the euromat, it's not like the pachinkos where balls often knock the glass.

I think, and hope, that you will enjoy the little piece of art that is this machine, and that all the work and trouble it give you will not make you hating it.

Of course, if you plan after repair to send the machine to someone else using FedEx, I would consider enclosing the machine in a titanium container, waterproof, and pad the titanium container with foam, bubble warp, cardboard, in a wooden box.. but of course... only if you feel insecure about the shipping handling

[mudfud]

success! ALL the lights are working, including the top two that indicate the game timer is going (and the flippers and scoring work).

changing the bulbs in the tower was very painful... had to take the thing apart, to find the bulbs set very deeply in cutout plywood holes. not easy to remove, but then I noticed the front screws that let you take the thick wood with holes off and access all the bulbs.

several of them were just loose, but one of them had actually broken off the socket. luckily, being a pachinko fixer, I had a spare to solder in place.

as for the upper lights, I replaced the sockets with E10 ones from radio shack. I used 14 volt bulbs and wired them in series. I will have to find some other covers, as the chrome rings were hanging off the larger bulbs (probably another reason one of the bulbs got broken enroute).

I included a picture of the cool timer. solenoid on left pulls and cranks the spring to the pendulum. the swinging pendulum counts down the time, and the position of the weight varies the playing time.

the remainder of the project is cosmetic, as I reproduce the front plastic... I found several rolls of decal paper that are actually very close in color to the euromat colors. I will cut out the big triangles and rectangles with a razor, then mount them on the thinner polycarb. behind the 1/8 inch one.

for the red numbers, I am tempted to print them onto clear overhead paper and stick them behind the red strips. they were originally blue number painted onto the back of the red layer.

also, I found out the decal shop can print the whole sheet for sticking on, if I can supply the graphic, for about $24, but that's more trouble, I think, to do.

for the bulbs, I am trying to decide what to paint them with. they originally were red, yellow and green. anyone know of what to use that won't burn or peel off?

will probably eventually swap out all the bulbs with LEDs, and those can be bought in colors so it will be easier than painting glass bulbs. only problem might be that LEDs will change the resistance of the circuits... will this mess up my relay function?

only other mechanical things I need are two button switches on the sides for the flippers, so they match. anyone know where to buy really shallow ones? I have seen ones for mame setups, but they usually have a long threaded part. mine cannot be much thicker than an inch, in order to clear the inside board.

I am still thinking about the coin slot. the microswitches for coins are just a long stiff wire that gets pushed to close the switch. I have lots of suitable switches, so might give it a try.

this mini pinball is pretty darn fun. I am getting quite the collection of games now. will have to have a pachi meet in salinas.

anyone coming to the california extreme pinball in july? I'm only about an hour south of there, if people want to make a pachi meet out of it, too. plenty of space to camp out here, too.

[takethecastle57]

Zowwwwwwwwwwieeeeieee !

This Euromat is looking real sweet !

[TilionMtl]

Wow really neat! doing a really good job Mudfud

I know the bulbs in the tower would be a pain in the ass to change.. I checked them because many was not lighting up, and re-screw them a bit so they work, this is where I saw there was a missing socket.

I didn't open the timer box, way too cool.. as MrGneiss usually say: it's too RADDDDDDDDD!!! heheheheh. Can you adjust the weight of the pendulum to have a longer or shorter playtime?

The idea of printing number on overhead projector sheet is a good idea, and it will allow you to easily change them later if wanted, changing the font, adding more text and so on.

About the decal onto sheet for sticking on, You can do it if you want, but I wouldn't try it. It will be really hard to align the sticky sheet on the Plexiglas, get rid of the bubbles, and you probably would have to apply the decal on the bended Plexiglas, not when flat, otherwise you will have a hard time bending the Plexiglas. Even on a flat surface, especially acrylic and so on, both tend to charge with static electricity and you gonna get a hard time putting it correctly. Again I may be wrong, but myself I wouldn't attempt that. The idea of putting the sheet between two Plexiglas is more easier to adjust, and change if needed.

For painting the bulbs or even leds, I would soak them in paint for window glass. You can find a cheap kit at Walmart with many colors, it come with plastic model like butterflies and so on that you can paint on and hang in a window. For peeling or resistant to heat, I don't know since it's a decorative kit, maybe in a art store, you would find better paint for this purpose.

There's also maybe something else that you can use.. maybe someone can tell more about it because I never use that stuff.. There's some rubber/plastic liquid, you can have it in spray can too, this liquid is use to soak the handle of tools like pliers, hammer and so on, to have a firm grip. This liquid must be really resistant when cured because of hard handling. I remember I saw them in a couple of color like red and blue, don't know if you can have them in many other colors. The are more expensive because of bigger can, but you will be able to rubber coat all the working tools, kitchen knifes, forks and spoons, or about 20 000 euromat. I don't know if it will be too opaque to have the light pass through.. I never used that stuff.

Did you found out which towers are green, red and yellow? Was I correct or completely out of track? heheheh

If you use the Leds and these are powered on the same track as the relays, when the relay turn off, there's a high voltage create by the relay. I don't know if it will not burn your leds.. I usual protect the rest of the circuit using a protection diode. You can read more about it there:

Relays

If the leds are all on the other side of the power track, I mean activated by the relays instead of along the relays (and it's how I think they are connected for your euromat), I don't see any problem. You will just have to find a way to hold the tiny led in the towers, not sure if they will look funny.

For the button flipper, I remember I thought that the front button and the one to the right I think, could be exchange, so the not matching one could be use on the front of the machine. If you can't use buttons with micro-switch like mames arcade, I think you will have to find regular push button. I'm going to buy some food for the puppy today, I will stop by the surplus store to see if they have something..

when you say one inch tick, is it the part inside the wood, or including the wood thickness?

[mudfud]

woo hoo! found a reasonable price for bulb covers.

I was looking at automotive ones, and they were $10 for 3!

also, some bally ones were listed for pinball at $10 for 5.

went to Michael's and found enamel paint that would work, then got an email from an automotive parts guy that would sell me about 15 covers for $20 shipped... getting better... returned the enamel paints

then, one last search, now for "pinball light bulb covers" got me these

The Pinball Wizard

only 50 cents each and I can mix and match (the automotive ones always come 3 of a color per pack)

so, I went back and read the euromat instructions and ipdb writeup, then tested the scoring per post, and figured out that there are 5 green lights, 4 red ones (back corners) and only 2 yellow ones (briefly lit by the center pop bumper)

the order is in for the above covers, with one extra of each, and 2 blue ones for the top lights, 10 flasher lights for the SF pin... maybe I could find flasher lights with E10 base for euromat? or would have to change to bayonet bases. i thought the green arrows would be nice as blinkers... or, find LEDs to put there that flash... so many lighting options.

when we hit the pinball expo's in dixon, santa clara and marin, I am sure there will be lots to look at and buy...

I have used the dip handle stuff, and I think it is too thick for the light to shine through. they do sell bulb covers that seem like similar material, for the large automotive bulbs. also, it is hard to get a smooth surface.

on the timer, you can move the weight up and down on the shaft. I don't think I would add weight, as this might over load the clock mechanism...

oh, I ordered a couple of white buttons for the side flipper activation. they were off ebay and designed for arcade, so I am hoping that they will be reliable (only $2.50 each, shipped from HK). about one inch thick, including the wood. was looking at lighted ones (would be cool to turn flipper lights on with over head lights, but these had about 3 inch long threaded shaft)

printing on the overhead sheets is ttc57 (rich)'s idea. he has lots of great ones and has helped me immensely on my pinball stuff.

in regards to the decal stuff, apparently it goes on over lightly soaped water spray, then you squeegee out the bubbles. the gal at the sign shop told me how to do it. my trick will be trying to lay and squeegee all the triangles separately. a real sign shop would cut out the in-between and leave the rest on a frame, so lining things up would not be a problem.

sounds like a project for tomorrow AM after work. I'm off to bed will post if I get a chance at work.

[TilionMtl]

congratulation on all the thing you have found.. can't wait to see the euromat

I would not be able to recognize it hehehehehehe

[mudfud]

here's the vinyl for decals. will use a sharp knife and straight edge, then layer the colors in place. i'm thinking to use the gold instead of canary yellow.