chewy's first pinball... 1964 williams san francisco

[new in town]

The "Striker" off a Match book will do the Trick.

One pass on each side of the contacts.

[slothappy144]

This sounds like my first (only) Em. I was able to get very good help by posting EM TECH: in rec games Pinball RGP google groups. With their help I now have my1967 Gott Super Score working perfect.

Strangely the Off switch is the bottom tilt, I have to rap the bottom or coin door to shut it off. The on stitch is on the coin door. There is a factory sticker inside the cabinet stating to rap the bottom to turn it off.

[KennithX]

I prefer the old mechanical ones, reminds me a bit of a vintage pachinko, no computer to cheat me

[rubberratt]

This sounds like my first (only) Em. I was able to get very good help by posting EM TECH: in rec games Pinball RGP google groups. With their help I now have my1967 Gott Super Score working perfect.

Strangely the Off switch is the bottom tilt, I have to rap the bottom or coin door to shut it off. The on stitch is on the coin door. There is a factory sticker inside the cabinet stating to rap the bottom to turn it off.

RGP is an awesome group of folks. They have always helped me with Pinball issues, and they are friendly(mostly) LOL
**highly Recomended**

[mudfud]

I will post to the google groups before ttc comes over on wednesday. maybe we'll have more ideas that way... I know that it's very close to working, I can feel it...

[mudfud]

sf pinball updates:

ttc and I spent over 6 hours over 2 days ago. I spent another 3 hours myself yesterday

got things starting, found a fuse that I missed the first time

changed the rubbers. some were so stiff they didn't even bend when holding two posts up

cleaned lots of leaf switches

scrubbed the face and chrome. miracle cloth and plastic steel wool from ttc (great stuff from OSH, no slivers)

I got the center pointer working after first reattaching the springs wrong... thank god for digital cameras.

found a bad solder joint that then bent back and shorted the center wheel of the left counter

bent the EOS switch on right side, as it was not even touching. poor solenoid was burnt b/c the current was not dropping to lower draw on holding the flipper

questions

I get a reset after the ball falls out, and then flippers and scoring are off. can get it going if I reset the main solenoid that engages the bar of switches. what could this be?

anyone know how to get the axle off the stepper assemblies? I can get the nut and lock washer off, but the brass center doesn't move and I didn't want to break the bakelite.

is there a disassembly manual for williams machines, mid 60s?

it's really 2 steps forward and one step back... quite a process.

at least if I fix one thing at a time, hopefully I will only break one thing at a time?

days more of work to get this pin working well. good thing I have lots of experience working on small pachinko parts

dreaming up ideas of how to redo the exterior, probably some cover panels. I am thinking red with dragons and lanterns... chewy's SF...

[new in town]

There were only 2000 made.

PINBALL: Repair EM Electro Mechanical Arcade Games (pinball, pitch and bat, bowlers)

PINBALL Repair EM Electro Mechanical Arcade Games (pinball, pitch and bat, bowlers), part two

This Old Pinball, pinball restoration and pinball repair videos!

Internet Pinball Machine Database: Williams 'San Francisco'

-=Internet Pinball Serial Number Database-View Game Serial Numbers =-


This was the last EM Game to have a Gobble Hole. :

Gobble Hole —
A hole in the playfield through which the ball in play may fall, ending that ball. Falling into this hole usually scores a large value or a special. This was a common feature in the woodrail era, and rarely seen after that.

Also a hole in the playfield that gobbles the ball, causing it to drain.

It's Rating. :

Ratings and Comments for San Francisco


Some Links. :

Pinball Links

One currently on E-Bay and som bubber ring kits. :

Williams 1964 San Francisco Pinball Machine - eBay (item 190373163610 end time Feb-21-10 13:12:33 PST)

San Francisco Pinball Rubber Ring Kit - Williams - eBay (item 120486252862 end time Feb-25-10 10:55:42 PST)

Williams San Francisco Pinball Machine Rubber Ring Set - eBay (item 350311765901 end time Mar-02-10 15:56:43 PST)

[mudfud]

hey NIT

thx for the links. at least someone out there has a working model for sale. I hadn't seen that one on eBay.

I resolderrd the wires so the wheel isn't chattering. seems that they ate still stcking on the last increment to zero. can I put a stronger spring to pull more. how about lithium grease for nylon to nylon friction?

latest problem is that the machine sticks w match solenoid engaged. this leads to toasty smell. I will say,however, that I am getting to know which buzzes of solenoids are which, and which ones should not be staying on...

I am guessing that a deep clean of the advance stepper unit might fix the problem. this is next on the list.

I do see that the machine switches to player2 when in single mode, and this is when stuff gets stuck. anyone know if this an advance unit function?

well, that's all the pinball for this month. I am off to the Caribbean to cruise doctor again. hoping I just get to be one, and not 2 docs this time.

[mudfud]

here are pix to go with my last couple posts. i have been in salinas, and my pix usually get loaded to this home computer.

pic 1 is all the stuff that ttc had in his small tool bag. pretty amazing the assortment

pic 2 is the blowdryer gently heaing the plastic piece, before placing between the glass. one piece needs one more heat treatment, as the upper edge is still catching a ball.

pic 3 is the nice masking tape someone used to hold the light covers on... what a mess to pull that off, but afterward the lighting was better. I used 4 dabs of goop to hold them now

pic 4 is the O ring that was so stiff that it didn't bend, even with the posts held up in the air

pic 5 is the match unit solenoid that has me mystified now. it is getting closed with some play triggers (one of them the jet switch) and staying pulled shut. this leads to toasty smells. I have not been able to trace back which switch is sticking. any ideas?

pic 6 is the shaft on the center arrow advance unit. I took the nut and lock washer off, but I cannot get the next layer to come off and didn't want to break the bakelite. any ideas?

I am about 80% there. I did post to the google pinball group, too, to see if anyone had ideas.

perhaps the deep clean of the counter unit will solve this problem?

oh, and the 25 cent switch stopped working today, too. urrghh. 2 forward and one back again. at least 10 cent still increments credits one number.

[new in town]

Williams Start-Up Sequence.

1. When the start button is pressed, the credit unit is decremented. This is done through the credit unit zero position switch and the 2nd coin relay (and the ball count zero position switch).
2. The end of stroke (EOS) switch on the credit unit decrement coil will energized the coin relay.
3. The coin relay will trip the game over relay.
4. The coin relay will energized the reset relay. The score motor will run.
5. The reset relay will energized the ball count unit reset, through the score motor.
6. The reset relay energizes the 2nd coin relay latch and game over relay latch coils.
7. The reset relay will energize the score reset relays, through the score motor.
8. The score reel reset relays will zero the score reels, through the score motor. The score motor will continue to active the score reset relays until all the score reels reach the zero position.
9. The reset relay activates the bonus unit coil until the bonus unit zero position switch is activated.
10. When the bonus relay drops out, the outhole relay is energized through a different bonus unit zero switch and score motor switch.
11. The outhole relay will run the score motor. The bonus unit will step up once. The ball will be kicked to the shooter lane.

Following these sequences step by step, you can usually generally locate the start up sequence problem. For example, say you have a Gottlieb multi-player game. After pressing the start button, the score motor starts turning, and the score reels all move the zero position. But the score motor keeps spinning and nothing more happens. Looking at the start-up sequence, we can see this would probably be a problem with the "SB" relay and the player unit (or maybe a dirty score reel zero position switch, which occurs in the previous step).

I see that you are already on rec.games.pinball. You can get allot of info there.

When Thing Still Don't Work: Buzzing/Noisy Relays and Coils.

In most EM games there are momentary and hold style relays. Momentary relays activate (energize) for just a moment. Hold relays activate for long periods of time. Examples of hold relays include feature relays (that keep a set of lights or features activated on a pinball playfield). Or the "hold" relay on a Gottlieb game (which is energized the entire time the game is turned on). Bally also has a "hold" relay that activates at power-on after the left flipper button is pressed.

Hold relays are designed to be activated for a long period of time, without burning. In order to do this, the hold relay's coil will have high resistance (compared to a momentary relay). It should have 30 to 150 ohms. The higher the resistance the better (but the higher the resistance the less "pull" the relay will have).

Hold relays, becauese they are energized for long periods of time, can be noisy. This buzzing is caused usually by one thing: the spring resistance of the relay is too high. Either the relay spring is too short/tight, or the relay's switch blades are adjusted to provided too much spring resistance. If a relay has to really work to pull in its activator plate, the AC 60 cycle hum will cause hum while the relay is "holding". The AC 60 cycles sets up a vibration which causes the noise. AC means "alternating current", as the voltage goes from 30 volts, to 0 volts, to 30 volts again and again, 60 times a second. As the relay goes to 0 volts, the armature on the relay can release slightly, and then the voltage goes back to 30 volts pulling it back. This often causes the buzz or hum.

Take a DMM and measure the resistance of the hold relay coil. It should be in the 30 to 150 ohm range. If there is the same relay coil number used elsewhere in the game, compare the two resistances, as they should be the same. If the suspect coil's resistance is lower, replace it.

With time hold relays can get warm (hot), and burn the insulation off adjacent windings. This will lower the overall resistance of the coil. Then the coil gets hotter due to lower resistance, and the cycle continues until the coil burns crispy and brown.

Assuming the relay's coil has proper resistance and is not burnt, there are a couple things that can be done to minimize the buzz/hum. Adjust the relay with as little spring resistance as possible to pull in the armature plate. This will minimize the noise. Adjust the relay's switch blades and lengthen the spring so only the minimal amount of tension is needed to return the armature plate back to it's resting position.

On Williams games there is a brass rivit on the activator plate. Sometimes this rivit is missing. This can also cause the hum. Or the rivit can become loose and that can contribute to the noise, though this is rare (usually the relay is just adjusted too "tight", causing the hum).

Another hold style coil (though not a relay) are the flipper coils. If the player holds in a flipper button and the coils make a loud buzz, this can be often be fixed by replacing the coil stop. The coil stops on EM coils are slightly magnetic. This minimized the problem with the 60 cycles per second AC vibration.

I know I posted it before but this Site. :

PINBALL: Repair EM Electro Mechanical Arcade Games (pinball, pitch and bat, bowlers)

Has a wealth of information. You just have to scroll through the many pages of info to find things that pertain to your Machine.

[mudfud]

yep. I read through the whole thing tonight.

I am thinking that maybe one of the solenoids under the playfield is sticking and keeping a switch closed. the JET bumper did seem to cause the problem once.

in regards to the nylon sticking, I found out that the leaf switches can be a little too tight, and that rarely, the springs that advance the wheels get tired... now I have to wait 3 weeks to find out

[pinball wizard]

about that match unit-it shouldn't be stuck in the energized position.i would follow the schematic,and go from that coil on.check each and every switch in the circuit to make sure it is not stuck in the closed position.also,there could be a short circuit in the wiring itself.check where the wires are soldered to the switch blades,make sure they are not touching.

[mudfud]

yep. that's my plan. any chance the JET bumper switch affects this? I am certain that one time when I activated the JET, this solenoid got stuck.

[pinball wizard]

it could ,if the jet bumpers are what activates the match unit.if that is the case,check the switch stacks under the playfield under each jet bumper.

[mudfud]

OK. back from the cruise and the first project I worked on was the pinball...

turns out that the jet bumper was engaging, but the solenoid that pops the ball NOT engaging... traced lots of wires back to the relay that should have energized the solenoid, and although the leaves were closing, there must have been oxidation preventing contact... once the solenoid pops, it disengages the relay that was holding the advance solenoid closed... yippee!

next problem was that the arrow that goes forward and backward in the center of head piece, which is a very nice feature that turns on different bonus lights and increases points on the playfield, was not working. got that unstuck again and remounted the arrow onto the axle... it is fun trying to get the arrow to go one way or the other, depending on how you want the points to be higher.

finally, I am close, but cannot quite get the reels to reset to zero. they chatter and the relays are snapping, but 2 of the reels will not advance to zero. when I manually advance them, then the machine resets and is ready to play. anyone have a williams machine that has had this problem? I read that this era machine was notorious for bad solder joints, so I will scrutinize these. in the meantime, I push the reels to zero to get a reset.

I am really enjoying getting this pinball to work, bit by bit. it's very challenging and I seem to fix one problem and create another... if I nibble at it one small problem at a time, though, I seem to make overall forward progress.

last thing that I need to clean well is the rotor that switches from player one to two and back. right now I seem to get a few extra balls on each play... fun for practice, but not an accurate score.

maybe in another week I will have this pinball resurrected and mostly playable.

p.s. I guess that if I had a virtual pinball I would not have the joys of debugging all these switches, relays and reels... then, where would the fun be?

[compirate]

Unless it's a true simulation of an EM pinball, then it would malfunction and you'd have to figure out why, that much more fun!

[pinball wizard]

sounds like you're getting close .those score reels that are not resetting -you either have a switch not making contact ,or a mechanical problem in the linkage connecting the reset solenoid to the reel.

[mudfud]

Unless it's a true simulation of an EM pinball, then it would malfunction and you'd have to figure out why, that much more fun!

now there's a real simulator for you. complete w debugging training!

pbw - I will go back with the magnifier and continuity tester next. I did read about weak jumpers on Williams from this time period. small wires soldered across the base, non contact, ends of leaf switches.

at least she's playable now

[mudfud]

well, she's working 99% now.

reels - the plastic gears in the center were binding on the thicker radius where the zero switch lever contacted: lightened the zero switch spring by adding a loop of paperclip, tightened the rotate spring by moving the attachment point and adding a rubber band, also used a tiny bit of tri-flow lubricant, with teflon. --> all the reels advance and zero properly.

one thing I could do in the future is swap the one's and hundred's reel's gears, since the one's is the most worn.

I found only one of these reels for sale on the net, and the price was $50 used!

cleaned the stepper for the player selection, and I get the appropriate switch from player one to player two, and ball one to five... yippee!

only thing that I could not get working (that used to work), is that the front switch that starts a new game and uses a credit STOPPED working one day... urrgghh. I traced the wires, cleaned the switch contacts, without being able to figure out the problem.

I did install a switch in the 10 cent coin return to give one play credit, and the game starts after that, so it ALMOST works now...

I really enjoy playing this EM pin. I am even starting to learn how to aim better, finally. got a couple credits, love that "pop", so I guess I am improving.

question for you pinball peeps: is it bad to paint over the cabinet on an old EM pin? this one has the flat white with stenciled red and blue designs, and I would like to sand and patch, then repaint in a solid, bright red.

is this bad for the value? the wood is pretty banged up and split already and I suppose someone could easily paint it back to the old design if they wanted...

thanks for comments.

[mudfud]

woo hooooo!

she's 100 percent! finally!

turns out that the "credit" switch is called a R.P. switch or replay switch on the schematic. I found a switch in series with this called "open when zero credit switch"... went back to the credit reel and found that when I spun it to put on credits, I went too far and the reel was off by 90 degrees. this made the zero credit switch open when there were 12 credits...

adjusted that, lost a washer, made a washer...

problem solved.

I officially have a 1964 EM pinball fully working. have to celebrate tomorrow... by going shopping for pachinkos?

I videotaped all the things that I fixed, broke/fixed, trouble shot, so I have a record when things don't work again.

next phase of this project is the cosmetics. painting, waxing, polishing, replacing plastics... and yes, ttc, swapping the front and back legs, that you are certain I installed backwards

I am off to berkeley now. working in oakland for a few overnights. a very different experience than salinas, and very little espanol for me to fake.

did I tell you how much I love fixing things?