Protective metal coatings

[Siouxzan]

Hey,

I'm wondering if any of you have used either Gunkote or Duracoat. Both are designed for finishing firearms, but are being used widely for other things where an ultra thin, yet nearly as tough as powder coating finish is desired (e.g. bike frames).

One of my (many) brothers is even sicker about firearm restoration/modification than I am about pachinko. For my multitude of rusted metal parts on the Nishijin A I'm working on, he highly recommends both of these (after bead blasting, of course). They hold up and don't interfere (as they are 0.25 - 1.2 mils thick, depending on how applied) even with close tolerance parts that contact and slide against one another repeatedly (e.g. a slide on a semi auto pistol).

Duracoat is a 2 part epoxy spray (therefore need your own sprayer) and Guncoat is a one part bake-on (300F in your oven) canned spray. Both come in myriad colors, including "brushed stainless." In the case of the latter, my brother says the Duracoat is a more convincing finish. He showed me an old AR7 coated with it and, I have to say, looked like brushed stainless to me.

Just an FYI.

[mudfud]

sounds like good stuff. do you know if hubcaps can be painted with it?

I ordered the paint on stainless, but I am always looking for new finishes.

[Siouxzan]

Sure, hubcaps can be painted with it. Not the cheapest way to go for that application though.
I've used a few spray on chrome products in my time. I consider them all just another can of aluminum-looking paint.
Have you considered that spray paint that is inundated with ultra-fine glitter? Ooooh, disco!
Okay, now I'm just delirious. Better start heading for sleep apnea land... work starts oh too soon...

[new in town]

It's THICK but bulletproof.

It would at Pachi BALLS

If you painted a Parrot Cage with it the Dang Bird could not Chip It.

WHAT is IT ? ?

Spoiler

What is Por-15? - POR-15 Inc.

[emmadog]

i'd go with the commonly available spray on rust converters. no need for surface prep as they actually need rust to work, no baking, and there are no close tolerance parts on old pachinkos where a thin film would be required. plus you'd be done much faster and are made specifically for the task you describe. can't remember the brand name at the moment but they're in the spray paint section and are available in several colors. if you decide to prep the surface then your options increase as far as spray on products and still easier than the epoxies, etc.

[mudfud]

i'd go with the commonly available spray on rust converters. no need for surface prep as they actually need rust to work, no baking, and there are no close tolerance parts on old pachinkos where a thin film would be required. plus you'd be done much faster and are made specifically for the task you describe. can't remember the brand name at the moment but they're in the spray paint section and are available in several colors. if you decide to prep the surface then your options increase as far as spray on products and still easier than the epoxies, etc.

is this por 15 stuff like the ones that oxidize the rust?

looks reasonable enough, $20 for the starter kit.

I may try this on citicar parts if the stainless paint doesn't work out... still waiting for that to arrive, but now, back to the nail pull off, as the lee valley puller arrived.

[emmadog]

No I have used por 15 before and it worked well for what I needed it for but it is thick. The stuff I referring is in a spray can. I have some at home That I bought a few months ago for this same job but never got around
to it. I am out of town now or I'd check. Anyway I bought mine at a true value store.

[Siouxzan]

POR 15 is amazing stuff. But "thick" is an understatement. Good Lord.
I used it on a '61 Fury floor about 10 years ago, spilled a little blob on my garage floor, and it's still there. Couldn't even chisel the stuff off!

[mudfud]

sounds a little thick for my hubcaps, then... unless I want 3D hubcaps, now there's an idea... wearing my cool IMAX glasses while driving down the road

[Siouxzan]

sounds a little thick for my hubcaps, then... unless I want 3D hubcaps, now there's an idea... wearing my cool IMAX glasses while driving down the road

Well, that would be cool under any circumstances!

[Cystic]

If it's rust removal and a coating left on the part is what you want then why not try Phosphoric Acid.

NOTE: Some of the below is HAZARDOUS and should be done with Proper Equipment and Common Sense. (Goggles,Gloves,Appropriate Clothing and Footwear)


It is readily available as Naval Jelly(70%), It's even cheap($6 a pint) found at Ace Hardware, some auto parts store and even Amazon. Also found in Star San Sanitizer(50%) from you local homebrew store.

It attacks only the rust and converts it from Iron Oxide(non water soluble)into Iron Phosphate(water soluble). You then just scrub off the black phosphate and reapply if needed. It will also leave a dark film on the part where the rust was that is then rust resistant.

I have used Phosphoric Acid(Star San - I homebrew) to clean 750 or so balls that had rust anywhere from surface to pitting. I put them in a 1 liter water bottle made of PET(recycle triangle 1), in two batches , adding water to 2/3rds balls water and the 1 oz or so Acid, then shook wrapped in a large bath towel for 5 mins, it adds grip and quiet, then rinse and then vibratory polished until they came out shiny on part and black marbled striped on places that had rust. I use them for my machines I have not cleaned/rebuilt but still play a bit.(I.E. My DIRTY Balls)

Phosphoric Acid is also the active product in some spray paints that you spray directly over rust. If you have used them you may have noticed a mist coming off the paint as it goes on, that's Oxygen being released from the reaction of the Phosphate forcing the Oxygen(Oxide) from the Iron and taking its place but only where the Oxide(Rust) has formed.

If you want the whole part to get the coating you could Rust the whole surface by doing the following.

Scrub the part with a grease cutting detergent, Rinse.
Dry and wipe with Lacquer Thinner.
Dry and wipe part with household Bleach.
Sprinkle lightly and evenly with salt(pickling salt is best as it is pure and fine ground) and let dry.
Spray with household Hydrogen Peroxide(3%) lightly so at not to remove salt and let dry.
Repeat Hydrogen Peroxide spray as part dries out, all day or so.(I kept mine in tupperware)
Longer you leave it the more it rust(and it WILL rust, I made some parts FUZZY with rust for one project)
Treat with Phosphoric Acid for effect.
Cool mottled blacks result

The above can be enhanced by the use of muratic acid if your results are poor(do a websearch for fast iron rusting) but I do not recommend it as it is mostly availible in 33% gallons and you use only use few tablespoons a year for most hobbies. It is cheap at $15 or so a gallon but its a gallon of Strong Acid to Store Safely.(If you have a place and know how, Great!)
I used Bleach,Salt and H2O2.(Hydrogen Peroxide - see the extra "O", thats Oxygen to make Rust) to make Rust decoration in the past.

Ok, enough Mr.Wizard(RIP-DH)

But then again, Blued Steel has always looked good to me.

[Cystic]

Ooops.. posted wrong edit it seems and missed 10 min window... correction follows.

I have used Phosphoric Acid(Star San - I homebrew) to clean 750 or so balls that had rust anywhere from surface to pitting. I put them in a 1 liter water bottle made of PET(recycle triangle 1), in two batches , adding water to 2/3rds balls water and the 1 oz or so Acid, then shook wrapped in a large bath towel for 5 mins, it adds grip and quiet, then rinse and then vibratory polished until they came out shiny on part and black marbled striped on places that had rust. I use them for my machines I have not cleaned/rebuilt but still play a bit.(I.E. My DIRTY Balls)

Should Read -



I have used Phosphoric Acid(Star San - I homebrew) to clean 750 or so balls that had rust anywhere from surface to pitting. I put them in a 1 liter water bottle made of PET(recycle triangle 1), in two batches , adding water to 2/3rds balls height and then add 1 oz or so Acid, squeeze bottle down to allow for gas expansion then shake wrapped in a large bath towel for 5 mins, it adds grip and quiet, then rinse and then vibratory polished until they came out shiny on part and black marbled striped on places that had rust. I use them for my machines I have not cleaned/rebuilt but still play a bit.(I.E. My DIRTY Balls)

[emmadog]

if i ever wanted to know how to polish pachi pins or rusty parts using the most steps and most products/chemicals then then this is the place!!! reminds me of the "mousetrap" game i had as a kid.
ok just joking everybody. so i just made it home and looked at the stuff i was talking about. it's called "rust reformer" made by rust-oleum. once applied you can leave it as is or paint over it. comes as a liquid or a spray can.

[Siouxzan]

In the end, I don't want coated or converted rust, and I want it to do justice to a stock machine. I think I've decided on bead blasting followed by either nickel plating or one of the thinner gun coatings in brushed stainless or clear.
Oh, it will be pretty.

[emmadog]

yep i totally understand-i was offering that redo tip/product for those who want a nice protected, rust-free finish and would rather spend their time on other areas like the cell, plastics, etc. i fall into that category as new machines keep arriving. in any case good luck and post some pics.

[Cystic]

In the end, I don't want coated or converted rust, and I want it to do justice to a stock machine. I think I've decided on bead blasting followed by either nickel plating or one of the thinner gun coatings in brushed stainless or clear.
Oh, it will be pretty.

OK I see what you want now. I would not bead blast the parts as it will change the surface by peening the metal. If can look nice but if you want it to stay as it is and just make the rust dissapear I would use Soda Blasting it just scrubs the rust and doesn't harm the finish.

The surface could then just be waxed to keep from rusting or you could use a clear lacquer. You could try buffing the rough spots out and repolish to match the rust free areas but if the stainless finish you described in your first post is that good then maybe try that.

Nickel plating at the two places I know of in my area charge about $150 a batch. One place has a batch size of about 32oz and the other has one of two cubic feet with a minimum of one cubic foot. The plating will only look as good as the underlying piece so buffing of the rough spots will still need to be done for a flawless finish.

A little pricey for me but it would look really nice.

If restoration to a perfect clean machine is your goal then parts swapping is maybe the best way to go. Just start collecting the best bits from the same type machine and put the best parts on one machine. That way you get to have more pachinkos.


In any case Good Luck and post pictures.

[Siouxzan]

Thanks for the soda blasting advice. For this thin metal, that seems like a good idea. If I turn the pressure down low, glass beads have been pretty gentle, but no point taking chances.

I have my own nickel plating supplies and have been happy with the results for car and gun parts. I will need to replenish some chemicals, but it's cheap to do, although a lot of work to polish everything and the other prep work. Hopefully it will be worth it. I'll be showing off the back of the machine along with the front.