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Thread: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

  1. #41
    Eye Shooter p.opus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by emmadog View Post
    Also interesting is the fact that balls are rented for a certain amount of yen each but when cashed back in, they are worth significantly less. One article stated that balls cost 4.5 yen but only worth 2.5 when redeemed. So you have to win 40% more balls than you rented just to break even. That's how they make money and the player loses money. That's also not taking into account the cut that the exchange house receives.
    Great article: Pachinko Nation: Articles: Multimedia: Japan Society

    That is the article I read prior to when I made my comments earlier in this post. It is a great article

    It was this statement that really made me comment on the "penny-ante" nature of the game.


    To anyone whoís never played, and even to many who have, the game is grotesque. Itís horribly noisy. Parlors are smoky and unpleasant. While itís true that no one ever loses too much at pachinko, no one ever wins much either. (Pachinko machines are programmed so that it is impossible to lose more than $2 a minute. Compare that to blackjack or slots or any American gamble, where you can easily lose thousands of dollars per hour. On the other hand, the biggest pachinko jackpots are worth only $50.) Pachinko is dreary. Itís no wonder it has never caught on anywhere else.

    Of course this article was written over 10 years ago so it could be a lot different now.

    However, one thing hasn't changed that I know of. Machines are still throttled to 100 balls a minute. This was a restriction when the
    Renpatsu-shiki (auto feeders) restrictions were lifted in 1969. To my knowledge, even the latest moderns with the auto-shooters still have 100 ball per minute restriction, which depending on the price of ball rental will limit loss. At 4.5 yen a ball, that's 4.50 a minute or $270.00 an hour considering a customer wins nothing within the hour.

    Not even close to what you can lose in Vegas.
    Last edited by p.opus; 05-27-2013 at 12:07 PM.
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
    ----------> ----------> ....And so it goes...

  2. #42
    Eye Shooter p.opus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by candyflip View Post
    Yeah sorry - don't agree at all.

    Having lived and worked in Tokyo, and played actual parlor pachinko for many years, you can lose small fortunes. I'm afraid flicking your vintages at home is *nothing like* reality.

    In parlors you can easily drop 10,000Yen in a matter of half an hour on a hungry modern. Some machines might take hours to payout, some won't at all. Total losses are usual - not an aberration. Lucky players can walk away with upwards of 100,000Yen, losers can do the same damage to themselves.

    It's like almost any form of gambling - if you want to go large at it, you can.

    While I agree that "flipping my vintages" at home is nothing like playing in a parlor, the machines still have physical limits to how much you can loose. In 1969 when the restrictions to the auto-loaders were lifted, the shooters were limited to 100 balls a minute.

    This restriction has not been lifted as far as I know. Even moderns are still limited to 100 balls a minute. However auto-shooters mean I can just hold the shooter in place instead of actually flipping the ball with my thumb.

    Your statement of losing 10,000 yen a half hour sounds about right. Ball rental is supposed to be around 4.5 yen per ball, so that would make 100 balls equal to $4.50. If a customer shot 6000 balls an hour without winning one jackpot he would lose $270.00 an hour. Significant, but nowhere near what you can lose in vegas.

    By contrast, I played dollar slots last time I was in Vegas and dropped 100.00 in less than 10 minutes.

    So yes, while flipping my vintage at home is no match for playing in a parlor, I can lose and shoot nearly just as many balls as anyone in a parlor. (Of course my thumb will fall off keeping a 100 ball per minute rate for a straight hour.)
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
    ----------> ----------> ....And so it goes...

  3. #43
    Kungishi candyflip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Pachinko and pachislo can be run anyway a foreign authority decides they might. The machines don't care.

    If, for example, each token or ball was worth $1 in Vegas, you'd have a machine that could take $6000 an hour. Not bad.

    But would a casino take a chance on an entirely new game, that might threaten it's existing ones, with no (gambling) history in America?

    I hope so.
    There is always another machine around the corner...

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  5. #44
    Eye Shooter p.opus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Yes, Vegas could price each ball at .10 or even a 1.00 a piece, but here's the problem I see. Realize I'm basing my observations on a standard 15 ball payout on a vintage machine. I don't have any experience with "fever mode" on a modern, nor do I believe they have a standard 15 ball payout in their other pockets, but regardless of the payout, you'll get the idea.

    In the long run, you almost never hit a 2:1 ratio of balls won to balls won. I've had my counters for awhile and I have yet to have "doubled" my money. In craps and roulette 2:1 is the MINIMUM payout. Blackjack has a regular 2:1 payout and 2.5 to 1 for a natural blackjack.

    The best odd's in a vintage is to hit a jackpot within the first 15 balls, and if it opens a tulip I would go ahead and try to close any open tulips so I could get 30, 45, or 60 balls in the first 15 or so shots.

    Here in lies the rub If the casino places the ball value too high, then I'll buy 15 balls and if I can grab a pot within the first 15 shots, I'm going to cash out real quick. If balls cost too much to buy and are valued too high, then I don't encourage the player to stay at the game.

    As a casino owner, I have to place the ball value so low, that a person won't leave after winning the first one or two hits.

    With the video modes and slot type elements in pachinko, it's much closer to vegas slots. However, to get the spin I have to hit a pot. Whereas in a normal slot machine, each coin gives me a spin, not just a "winning ball".

    I think the best way you could get a pachinko game in vegas is to introduce "gold balls" or something similar where you have some high value balls in the ball system where you get 1x payout for each ball won, but a gold ball could pay 10 to 1 or even 100 to 1.

    I still think that the reason pachinko doesn't take off here is because there is a fundamental philosophical difference in "Japanese Gambling" and "Western Gambling". I also believe that for the Japanese, the payout is secondary. I don't think most Pachinko players in Japan expect to win big. They are satisfied with breaking even, winning small, or losing small. It's about the game, it's about the ability to unwind, the winning is the frosting. The closest US gambling equivalent is blackjack. But even blackjack gives you the opportunity to win more than pachinko over the long run.

    Just my .02.
    71 Nishijin "A" Bowling, 80's Nishijin Hit Parade , 05 Sankyo Star Wars, 07 Fuji Yamato 1, 09 Fuji Yamato 2
    ----------> ----------> ....And so it goes...

  6. #45
    Kungishi candyflip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by p.opus View Post
    . Realize I'm basing my observations on a standard 15 ball payout on a vintage machine. I don't have any experience with "fever mode" on a modern, nor do I believe they have a standard 15 ball payout in their other pockets, but regardless of the payout, you'll get the idea.

    In the long run, you almost never hit a 2:1 ratio of balls won to balls won. I've had my counters for awhile and I have yet to have "doubled" my money. In craps and roulette 2:1 is the MINIMUM payout. Blackjack has a regular 2:1 payout and 2.5 to 1 for a natural blackjack.
    Pachinko is a fundamentally different game - there is no doubt.
    Modern pachinko regularly pays more than double... but it takes a lot longer than in casinos on the games you mention that they offer.

    Pachinko in the USA would need a different mindset to be successful - but all new things start this way.
    It's about how they are introduced to soak up the local flavour.
    Someone with vision and some forward thinking, could see that pachislots offer Vegas an entirely new way to think about their traditional Slot offerings, and who they might attract as a result.
    There is always another machine around the corner...

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    Fever Hunter The Rube's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    but I am kinda surprised that there isn't a handful of Pachinko Parlors in the USA, especially in Asian communities. You think there would be as least a couple her and there.
    WANTED LIST: Tom & Jerry Pachinko (2010). Blood+ Pachislo (2010). Woody Woodpecker Pachinko (2004). Indiana Jones Pachiko or Pachislo (2006). Ghostbusters Pachinko. Popeye Pachiko (2004). Takumi Way Pachinko (2008).

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    Stuey - The RADministrator MrGneiss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    I remember one of the Japanese venders thats sold stuff here several years back tried to get their slightly modified pachinkos into casinos..I think I remember some pics of them at a Vegas trade show.. I don't believe there was really much interest..

    I've always said in this type of thread that the biggest problem with pachinko outside of Japan is that most people just don't "get" it.. Heck, a lot of PT members don't even get it!! There's also all the different gambling laws blah blah blah..

    Even though (to us) pachis are super Rad, I just can't see pachis being popular anywhere that real gambling already exists..since it seems probably the main reason pachis even still exist in Japan is because its the only "gambling" they have.. From all I've read over the years, if real Vegas style gambling ever became legal in Japan, I don't think pachis would be long for this world..

    "Blowing smoke rings at the moon."

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    Fever Hunter The Rube's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    I went to Mall of America and passed by Masu. Took some pics of their 3 machines. Thought you guys would want to take a look.
    foodsign.jpgeva.jpgblee.jpgprojet.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    At Mall of America (in Minneapolis, MN), we have a Japanese restaurant that has Pachinko Machines for free play.

    Photo Gallery | Masu Sushi Robata
    Attachment 66718
    WANTED LIST: Tom & Jerry Pachinko (2010). Blood+ Pachislo (2010). Woody Woodpecker Pachinko (2004). Indiana Jones Pachiko or Pachislo (2006). Ghostbusters Pachinko. Popeye Pachiko (2004). Takumi Way Pachinko (2008).

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    Blind Shooter Five Brothers TC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    If anybody is ever in the DC metro area, they are more than welcome to schedule an appointment with us to play any of our pachinko/pachislo machines!

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    Blind Shooter Leorules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty21 View Post
    Are there any Pachinko Parlors in The U.S., Like Arcades, not for Gambling Like in Japan, Just for Entertainment? I heard there is one in SanFran CA but I cant find any info about it online...
    Yes in Wilmington NC it's called Pachinko World! www.facebook.com/PachinkoWorld

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    Blind Shooter Leorules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    YES in Wilmington NC a REAL Pachinko Parlor! www.pachinkoworldusa.com

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    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    After winning some machines at auction, I bought more and am finishing rhe cabinets for them.
    I added ball lifters, card readers, and battle signs. They are being rolled out in groups of 3
    So we now have Pachinko in Pasadena CA at my arcade club, its open 7 days a week but hold on,
    let me test them for a week or so before I turn you guys loose on them, more updates soon, I should add that
    If the pachinkos draw more than the pinballs, I will rent next door and open a parlor with 200 games, unfortunately the
    space I have now barely will hold 15.. watch the website for the announcenent www.club1609.com

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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Hi danno66 and welcome to the group!

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  22. #54
    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Thanks for the welcome. I think it would be good if I told y'all my story, it's very pachinko relevant. When I was a kid in the 70s, I had a neighbor with a Pachinko machine, he thought it was cool to hit the ball dump so his Mom threw it out the window and I kept it, later I bought used machines from Montgomery Wards before they went under. Fastforward to 1988, I moved to California from VA, I started to build a storage locker full of flea market finds, I built up over 30 machines, later I sold them as a lot (like an idiot...). The day I sold them was sometime early in 1990 and that same day I saw my first modern machine, I thought about doing this and in 1992 I opened a small club in Sanfrancisco with 14 machines, it was a hit and I did well until my Job forced me to Los Angeles. Now after 25 years here I got the idea to open an arcade, I did just that, I put in all new Pinballs and some used video consoles. Only been open a month when I caught an arcade auction with 2 Pachinko machines, when I saw how much they had advanced I wanted them (titles being: Indiana Jones Gold and Charlie Chaplin). I had these at my house and got ball lifters for them. I played them, friends told me I should put them in my arcade, I was lucky because my Tekken Console Arcade died and instead of fixing it I could use the space. Now we enter the current project, I took this full steam ahead, I put card readers and Battle signs on the machines, also put them in cool cabinets. Then I thought about SanFran, what if I opened a small parlor down here, I had heard about pachinkoworld, yeah why not, actually I felt dumb for not starting one last year and instead going with regular pinballs (9x the cost!) but I do like them so it's ok, this can be an addition. I went on a search and spend mission to build up the best machines out there, yes it was expensive but I ordered 9 machines for immediate sale, they too will be given readers, signs, and cabinets. Yet the fun still continues, I figure what happens when players get bored?? The answer!! More Machines. I can go two ways with this, I can keep swapping them OR I can rent a giant space and install all of them. The outcome depends on the turnout, if people love this and I have a line, the larger space happens, if people don't seem to care about Pachinko, I rotate them and sell what I don't need. Right now I have a full container ready to leave from JP, it has other stuff besides pachinkos but the pachinkos are 90%. I do not have Pachislo nor will I because of California Law, all I need is to get shut down because I have
    "Gambling" going on, hah if I were being tried on circumstantial evidence, I'd be in trouble because the store next to mine (which is interconnected) has a Lupin 3 Pachislo which is on display as of yesterday afternoon, I fixed it and played it over there, too bad it's illegal because it would be a great
    piece. Hopefully noone decided to witch hunt me and say I'm operating a secret slot parlor, the sooner he gets rid of it the better, also it's so loud that it beats all my machines and pinballs running at once. We're getting ready to start the heavy tests next week, after they complete I will open the section and let people play 6 while I prep the others to make 15, I suppose I could grow larger and kick some video games out but I have to see people want it, I think a parlor would be better albeit more expensive. Incidentally we never used to allow food or drink, once the Pachinko section opens we give you free soda and snacks. I hope to meet some of the people on here, Pachinko is awesome, I spend more time playing it than my pinballs, I had a long absence but I'm back. Thanks for the welcome and we'll talk soon. I do have a side question, I'm lazy and would love to count balls by machine instead of weight, anyone have a ball counter for sale?? Reply in Private. Best Regards to All, Dan

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    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    pachi.jpgThis picture is from a hidden camera, I tried to get better pics but this is the only camera which focuses at the wall, of course it will be changed. What you see is the picture of the building of the cabinets at the arcade, the machines are not the same ones I'm installing but I had to supply 3 which had legs to make it easier, the first 3 will be Avengers, Jason vs. Freddy, and Big Dream. The next 3 will be determined tomorrow.. Disregard the time and date, it's far ahead... Im hoping to start my testing on Wednesday and public would be a week from then.

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    Blind Shooter philewhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Sounds really cool, keep us informed.

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    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    pach.jpgThis pic is the first pod of 3 as it stands completed, next week we replace the machines with newer ones and add battle signs. I tried to take a front on picture but the brushed aluminum reflects me. I have these configured with ball channels and ball lifters, we put all machines on full and ran them for a few hours, all went well.

    I was asked about the possibility of an overflowing top tray until I realized that the card readers dispense from there so there isn't one, if anything a jackpot could empty all 30k balls out of the main feed, oh well we'll see if it ever happens, I don't relish the idea of picking up a tray for counting.

    I'd love to buy a tabletop counter like the NADA Hypercount NE 2800 however I can't get anyone to level with me when I call them, oh well, looks like I'll ruin a ball lifter by adding a hopper and some opto counters down the rail, I can use the same counters as the pachicount display although I'll be adding a wood rail and mount it on the wall so I can save my back, still I'd rather buy one so if you have leads or if you have one to sell, I'm looking.

    For those of you who are interested, I'm planning to open to customers 3/20.

    Peace, Dan

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    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Alrighty Folks, I changed pasadenapachinko.com to reflect our current status. In addition, I'm working hard to open sooner but still it looks like 3/20.

    I have a small survey on the bottom of the website, it asks you for your favorite soda and also how many balls you prefer to get with each press of
    the ball loan button.

    I'm asking these questions because I was test playing a machine 2 days ago and I kept getting reach, I felt a lot more excitement when I had to
    ask for 25 balls at a time versus getting 100 at a time, I don't know why, but whatever this did to me it made me play for 5 hours instead of the
    10 minutes I needed for a test.

    Whatever you guys like is what you'll get, just let me know. I think I like the small number because I get to push more buttons and hope that the balls are in the tray before I hit the jackpot, of course I never hit one but I really felt the anticipation probably for the first time to a degree I can't describe.

    No wonder this is so much fun, I even filmed the Freddy Versus Jason Battle Scene, it's so misleading, you think Jasons gonna win and at the last second Freddy does, I can't imagine how cool some of my new games are going to be, I feel kinda bad taking Freddy away...

    -- Dan

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    Blind Shooter danno66's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    Ok!! I have the place complete. We'll be opening in about a week, I need to get some rules and a few supplies...
    P1.jpg P2.jpg

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    Blind Shooter Leorules's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pachinko Parlors in The U.S.

    The problem you will have with this kind of set up is you will HAVE to watch people at ALL times since they can just reach into the top of your games and grab more balls. Also we decided against the card readers for 2 reasons, 1)They are easily obtainable and programmable which means almost ANYONE can get a blank card and put as much as they want on them and 2)The machines dispense so few balls at a time. we have people that buy $20 worth at a time, at 2c each that's 1000 balls. I wish you well with this project, but I think you will run into a LOT of problems running it set up like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by danno66 View Post
    pach.jpgThis pic is the first pod of 3 as it stands completed, next week we replace the machines with newer ones and add battle signs. I tried to take a front on picture but the brushed aluminum reflects me. I have these configured with ball channels and ball lifters, we put all machines on full and ran them for a few hours, all went well.

    I was asked about the possibility of an overflowing top tray until I realized that the card readers dispense from there so there isn't one, if anything a jackpot could empty all 30k balls out of the main feed, oh well we'll see if it ever happens, I don't relish the idea of picking up a tray for counting.

    I'd love to buy a tabletop counter like the NADA Hypercount NE 2800 however I can't get anyone to level with me when I call them, oh well, looks like I'll ruin a ball lifter by adding a hopper and some opto counters down the rail, I can use the same counters as the pachicount display although I'll be adding a wood rail and mount it on the wall so I can save my back, still I'd rather buy one so if you have leads or if you have one to sell, I'm looking.

    For those of you who are interested, I'm planning to open to customers 3/20.

    Peace, Dan

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