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Thread: BellCo sound board EPROM data

  1. #1
    Tokie Owens 9900dude's Avatar
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    Default BellCo sound board EPROM data

    For kicks and grins, I dumped the EPROMs on my Super Bingo unit - the ones in the sound board. Hoping to possibly see if there's any normal data in there that could possibly be altered (i.e. different sounds).

    U5 = 32K
    U25 = 1MB
    U26 = 1MB
    U30 = 512MB

    Does anyone know about the contents of these EPROMs, what format they're in, etc?

    I'd be willing to share the EPROM data if anyone wants to look at it - let me know.

    Thanks!

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    Tokie Owens 9900dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Well, after playing around with Goldwave, U25 and U26 both seem to have ADPCM type data in them. Goldwave will import it, and after I increase the playback frequency x 4, I can make out the songs and sound effects from the game. However, the import isn't very good quality - although I can tell it's the game's sound effects, Goldwave must just not do a good job importing them.

    I still have no idea what is in U5 or U30.

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    PachiTalk Hostess dattia's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    This has been discussed here several times over the years. I do not think that anyone has successfully changed the sounds.

    It seems to be the last barrier to making fully customized machines. Good luck and do please let us know how it goes.
    Dawn

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    Scowlin' Jean Hornigold hanabi's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data



    Please do keep us updated on your discoveries

    and Welcome to PachiTalk!!
    Angie ...
    Pachinkos, Pachislos, Coffee, Papercraft Ninja, Pinball

    I ran away with the Steampunk Circus!
    I was hiding in a room in my mind...
    You crush the lily in my soul...



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    Blind Shooter woowoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Oooo this sounds interesting. It would so cool to be able to fully customise a machine including sounds.

    Is this not the type of thing more suited to fruit machine emulation? I have loads of fruit emu's on my computer and can play all the sounds just like a real machine, I dont know how they do it but maybe its something you could look into?

    Do a search for fruit emu in google, there are forums that specialise in this. It would be a good place to start I think.

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    Tokie Owens robr81's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    9900 any luck with your sound modding... im looking to by and eprom burner reader myself and start explorer these eproms...is there one in particular u use or would recommend?

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    Tokie Owens 9900dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Quote Originally Posted by robr81 View Post
    9900 any luck with your sound modding... im looking to by and eprom burner reader myself and start explorer these eproms...is there one in particular u use or would recommend?
    Nope, all I can figure out is that the EPROMs use a variant of ADPCM - I can do an import in Goldwave (and up the playback speed x 4 times) and get a somewhat reasonable representation of the sound, but it's still very scratchy.

    I sent the EPROM to a couple other forums, and nobody could make heads or tails out of the sound format.

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    Tokie Owens jmccorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    I'd like to play around with the dumps, see if I can pull a clean sound out of it. May I have a copy to work with?

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    Tokie Owens robr81's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    if you can post ta copy of the dumps i have a friend id liek to bring them too aswell...

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    Tokie Owens jmccorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Quote Originally Posted by robr81 View Post
    if you can post ta copy of the dumps i have a friend id liek to bring them too aswell...
    Indeed. I've got a good tool for importing raw sound data. If I'm able to decode it, I'll be happy to share my findings. This sort of thing is fun for me.

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    Tokie Owens 9900dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data


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    Tokie Owens jmccorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    I've put a bit of effort so far into trying to decode this. What I've been able to find is:

    1. The start of the first ROM appears to be some computer data (not sound)
    2. There is empty (blank) sound padded through the end of the second ROM.
    3. My experiments also show it to be an ADPCM variant of some sort. The question is on the "A" in ADPCM -- which adaptive method they're using.
    4. It appears to be mono, at a 22050hz sample rate.

    The most successful decoder I've used is for a VOX ADPCM. In fact, the clicky/raspy distortion is really low. But it looks like this particular codec is clamping the waveform down to a really tight (but variable) range, which gives a sub-optimum sound experience. If you look at the output waveform, you can see the range of the waveform changing (subtle in some places, very abrupt in others) as the file plays.

    I think we can be very certainly it is an adaptive PCM encoding. The question seems to be in the flavor of the ADPCM that is being used.

    NOTE: I am far outside of my area of expertise here. I'll play with this some more. If we can't figure it out on the software side, perhaps we can do ti on the hardware side by looking at the chips used on the board that has the audio. How interested are you in chasing this down?

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    PachiTalk Hostess dattia's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Since this is the last hurdle to completing a fully custom machine... I think there would be great interest.
    Dawn

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    Super Turtle BigBearSteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    I would be very interested in doing this for my Family Guy custom

    Or, as Peter says, "Freakin Sweet"
    My favorite color is Ham

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    Tokie Owens jmccorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Okay, some good news. I opened up my AutomATic machine and pulled out the board that delivers the sound. On the board was a Yamaha YMZ735-F chip (YM735 is the chip and the -F denotes the package). It is responsible for the 4bit ADPCM playback.

    Here is a PDF copy of the datasheet for the chip... in Japanese: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/lsi/.../3mz735a50.pdf

    I've found references here and there, and it appears that Yamaha does their own strange ADPCM implementation. The problem when it comes to tools is that nobody wants to import/export a raw file format. They all want it to be surrounded with some sort of container format (like .wav).

    There are programmer's libraries (.DLLs) out there that'll work with this codec if you can find someone who'll whip up some code. There are various pre-existing programs which may decode the format, but they expect it to be encapsulated inside another file format (and won't take raw files). This has been the most frustrating.

    As far as encoding, I've found one piece of software which will encode in the "Yamaha ADPCM" format. It is Oxelon Media Converter. Of course, it won't produce raw files, but will place the encoded data into a major container format.

    This is probably as far as I want to run with this, and someone else is certainly welcome to pick it up from here. But I think you've got your answer. It is a 4 bit Yamaha ADPCM encoding.

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    SNORTARRIFIC! new in town's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    72 Pachi's, 36 Pachinko's, 2 Pallots, 3 Pinn's & 2 Pachinko Bar Signs. Links to About Me: pachijunkie's Videos


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    Fever Hunter njmatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccorm View Post
    Okay, some good news. I opened up my AutomATic machine and pulled out the board that delivers the sound. On the board was a Yamaha YMZ735-F chip (YM735 is the chip and the -F denotes the package). It is responsible for the 4bit ADPCM playback.

    Here is a PDF copy of the datasheet for the chip... in Japanese: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/lsi/.../3mz735a50.pdf

    I've found references here and there, and it appears that Yamaha does their own strange ADPCM implementation. The problem when it comes to tools is that nobody wants to import/export a raw file format. They all want it to be surrounded with some sort of container format (like .wav).

    There are programmer's libraries (.DLLs) out there that'll work with this codec if you can find someone who'll whip up some code. There are various pre-existing programs which may decode the format, but they expect it to be encapsulated inside another file format (and won't take raw files). This has been the most frustrating.

    As far as encoding, I've found one piece of software which will encode in the "Yamaha ADPCM" format. It is Oxelon Media Converter. Of course, it won't produce raw files, but will place the encoded data into a major container format.

    This is probably as far as I want to run with this, and someone else is certainly welcome to pick it up from here. But I think you've got your answer. It is a 4 bit Yamaha ADPCM encoding.
    so have you tried to burn a new sound chip?
    Have a nice day

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    Tokie Owens jmccorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Quote Originally Posted by njmatt View Post
    so have you tried to burn a new sound chip?
    Sorry, I do not have a burner, and really, just a minimal interest in this topic. I just liked the idea of figuring out a small technical mystery.

    I did have a question in the back of my mind, wondering if the Oxelon codec for the Yamaha ADPCM was good or not. I ran a small test by encoding a known sound, and then trying to play it back like I did the BellCo ROM dump. The encoded sound had the same behavior as what we found in the ROM dump. Another good sign. But the only way to know for sure is to try it in a real ROM.

    I think someone can proceed with this in one of two ways.

    NON-PROGRAMMER ROUTE:

    1] Trust that Oxelon Media Converter has a solid Yamaha ADPCM encoder. Yes, Oxelon has an obtuse interface. I think you'd have good luck by selecting the following options:

    Media Format: .wav
    Video Codec: Default
    Check the Show all box
    Audio Codec: ADPCM YAMAHA (only visible after Show All is checked)

    In Video, leave all options blank.
    In Audio, set the Channels to Mono.
    The the Sampling rate to 22050.
    Ignore Bitrate (leave blank)

    Select the file path for saving (if needed).

    At the bottom, click on Add Files. Select a known .wav or .mp3 file.
    Click on the Conversion button.
    This will output a .wav file that has the header information for the wav format, with a payload of audio data in the Yamaha ADPCM format.

    2] Use a tool (unknown, you'll have to find and pick one) to extract, say, a good middle section of bytes from that .wav file. Save it as a .raw file.

    3] Test out the .raw file with some audio playback tool. I use Audacity. There is an Import -> Raw Data feature (depending on the version, it is either under File or Projects). Use the VOX ADPCM codec, and set the sample rate to 22050. You should have a semi-playable clip that varies in audio range and quality. If the test isn't good, go back and figure out where it went wrong.

    4] Use a step similar to #3 to find a discrete and testable chunk of sound, same length, in the original ROM.

    5] Use a software tool (unknown, you'll have to figure it out) to overlay your .raw clip over the correct area inside of the ROM sound data (found in step #4) that has the sound you want to replace. You're going to have to get the right length and offset. Of course, putting it at the start of the bingo_u25 ROM (which contains data) will result in disaster.

    6] Burn the ROM, place it in the machine, and test. Through experimentation and trial-and-error, you should be able to figure out what goes where.

    PROGRAMMER ROUTE (IDEAL):

    1] Working with the sound data in the ROM dumps, attempt to identify the offsets of the start points (in bytes) and lengths (in bytes) of a few sound clips.

    2] Search the start of the u25 ROM to see if those offsets and lengths can be identified. (Be careful of big-endian/little-endian issues which could exist.) If they can be identified, you've got a complete map of where all the sounds are. Further, you can change potentially change the map to create sounds of different lengths (luckily, the second ROM appears to be padded with a lot of empty space, which can allow for longer sounds).

    3] Figure out how to use the Yamaha ADPCM libraries which are floating around the internet.

    4] Use the libraries to create a tool to encode sounds clips into the ADPCM format, and then place them into specific offsets in the ROM dump images.

    5] If steps #2 and #4 were successful, you could actually create a full-blown tool that rips samples from the ROM dumps. Perhaps those could be presented as the default sounds. Then you could let the users browse those sounds, and .mp3 or .wav replacements for each one. (Which you would then encode the replacement, adjust the offsets and lengths in the ROM data, and place the encoded sound into the ROM dump file.)

    Hope this helps someone. As mentioned, I just had an interest in figuring out the sound CODEC mystery, which I've solved to my own satisfaction. If someone wants to actually change the sound files in their BellCo Pachislo, they've got to carry it from here. But it looks quite doable.

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    Tokie Owens wackyracer's Avatar
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    Default Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Quote Originally Posted by new in town View Post
    I know old thread but This link is dead...does anyone have a good link for this chips data sheet or have a pdf they can...PM me if you do.

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    Talking Re: BellCo sound board EPROM data

    Hi Pachitalk members ,
    i am also interested in creating my own sound for my pachinko or Pachislo I suppose once you can read the files and find out the format they are written in you can replace with alternative sound files

    I have found this interesting video on YouTube which explains how to read or write on EEPROM chips For arcade

    I have a spare star wars board sankyo which I can experiment with ...it's alive !! It's alive !! Frankenstein Pachi

    How to Write/Read Eproms with a Willem GQ-4X USB Eprom Programmer Mcumall - YouTube
    Pachislo:Fist of the North Star(restored)with side art Sammy,Fire Drift Sammy Pachinko: Hanabi Air Vision,Indiana Jones,Captain Harlock,Star Wars,GT Time,Magic Lamp,Marylin Monroe, Powerful Zero,Onmyoji,LooneyTunes,Evangelion1,2 & 3 , X files, Matrix

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