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Thread: More value - Restored or original?

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    Mr. Vintage wrkey's Avatar
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    Default More value - Restored or original?

    Ok, here's my thoughts. When dealing with old things (antiques, vintage or otherwise) different things affect the over value. One of the biggest factors is the refinishing or refurbishing of the piece. For example, with most furniture it is more valuable in the old state with a particular patina on it. With Clocks (my dad restores them) the more finely the restoration to where they look like new the more value.

    So, looking at the value of pachinko machines. Would you pay more for a vintage machine that that is untouched but in decent condition or the same machine that has been restored (including paint, new pins, etc.)?

    Me thinks there is more value in a fully restored machine much like there is with clocks, juke boxes, vending machine and other mechanical devices. But there is something to be said to having a machine that is completely original. Cars for example, a restored 1920 Ford is not worth quite as much as a complete original one that is in decent shape.

    Comments?
    Rusty Key

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    Pachi Puro emmadog's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Great question to pose. I think I would actually rather an unrestored one provided it was restorable as in not trashed. On these pachinkos I like the signs of wear and tear and the stains as long as it is nothing extreme. It speaks of it's history. The main reason I refinished the PF was for the challenge of it and the fun. It wasn't in that bad of shape to begin with and I manged to learn alot concerning what to do and what not to do.

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    MacGruber JACKSJE4's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Rusty-

    What a great topic of discussion!!

    I personally believe that a mechanical arcade type machine that has been reconditioned/restored using as many of the original parts as possible would hold more value than something that was restored using new parts. You obviously would want to clean it up and remove the dead spders too. Think about what we have seen some fully restored machines sell for on ebay over the last year, and what Bill at Vintage Pachinko sells his restored machines for.

    Another case in point: what would emmadog's restored Powerflash fetch, as opposed to a Powerflash that looked like Lt. Teddy's first one?

    I think the ultimate value lies with the desire and budget of the buyer, but my personal opinion is that a machine with all of the original parts that has been cleaned up and is in working order holds the most value.

    Jeff
    Last edited by JACKSJE4; 11-11-2009 at 03:50 PM.
    Jeff Jackson, Denver CO

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    Eye Shooter Microbus99's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Hi Rusty,

    This is just my opinion. I'm certainly not the expert here mainly because I'm fairly new to this but I do think my love for these machines is as deep as anyone else here.

    I look at it both ways but generally in my opinion a cleaned up machine is worth more to me.

    A mid 70's machine is kind of like a mid 70's car and wouldnt hurt to be cleaned up to its original luster. I do think that trying to keep all the original parts would be ideal (brass nails for example) then just replacing everything. As far as painting goes, I'm all for it!! On the machines with bad water damage, I'm not afraid to tear it down all the way to replace the playfield. Kind of like giving that 70's car a new paint job.

    A 50's or 60's machine seems to be an exception. There is something about that patina on the tin ball trays, wood frame, and playfield that that make it difficult to mess with. Trying to keep these as original as possible by just repairing what's broken seems to be the way to get the most value from that machine.

    I think the thing about these 70's machines is that, as we know, there are alot of them out there. They seem really valuable to us but I think to the general public just looking at one of these devices, just sees nails, wood and plastic. They just dont appreciate the beauty of them like we do. Once they're cleaned up, shiny, colorful and clean, they take notice.

    It doesnt help the fact that these machines dont have any flashing lights, loud noises, credit counters, etc. to keep someone interested in them.

    My appreciation of these machines is as much artistic as it is as game device. Actually working on them and just staring at them gives me more enjoyment then the playability. I'll leave that for someone else.

    I'm going to keep painting, sanding, refinishing, scrubbing and polishing but that's just me.

    Next...

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    MacGruber JACKSJE4's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Jeff Jackson, Denver CO

    There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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    Fever Hunter NJ_Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Quote Originally Posted by JACKSJE4 View Post
    Rusty-

    I think the ultimate value lies with the desire and budget of the buyer, but my personal opinion is that a machine with all of the original parts that has been cleaned up and is in working order holds the most value.

    Jeff
    I agree - a cleaned and restored machine with as little modification as possible is the most valuable to me. I'm sure others might be willing to trade functionality or cleanliness for original pieces and details.

    It's almost hard to draw the line too - is it OK to replace pieces that are unseen for the most part, on the back of the machine as opposed to replacing pieces on the front? Unless that is the goal of your project like Microbus or some of the other complete teardowns and rebuilds (like Digitals Coke theme or HeavyGuitars' vintage and one other that I'm forgetting, but it was a purple machine in the end - ShockSystem maybe?).

    If you prefer not replacing anything, what about replacing something like the staples in the back with screws?

    I think we all probably have our own thoughts about it (back to Jeff's comment).

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    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    In regards to anything of value (and remember, value is what someone else is willing to pay, not what you think it's worth ):

    To a collector, good condition original finish and parts is always worth more than rebuilt/restored, no exceptions. The rarer the item, the worse the condition can be and still be acceptable. They want it as close to what it was when whatever it was was made/used. Now really poor originals will be worth less than a restored/rebuilt thing, but like I say, varies with rarity. In Pachinko, I'd say you should get more for a restored machine than an original condition one. We few, we happy few, are the only ones around here who have any idea how rare some of these are. The majority just see them as an interesting gadget and either want it in original condition because they can get it at a bargain price or restored because they don't want to take the time/don't have the skills.

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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    Goodwill Ambassador luckydog's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    on other items, whenever I get a real good old Goodwill find, I sell it as is and untouched.

    I might wipe off a few cobwebs, but thats it, I leave it up to the buyer!!
    幸運わんわん Luckydog or Yukiwanwan in Japanese

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    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    that way they feel they're getting more of a bargin

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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    be vewy vewy quiet im hunting pachis... Lt Teddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    I have had pachinkos off and on for about thirty years. I have always enjoyed the machine for the playability of the machine. As long as it is clean and works right I was never in the business of trying to buy and resell.

    Their are alot more powerflash machines out their. I know where people are just storing them because their husband has passed away and they are keeping it because it was his favorite machine.

    Any of the pachinkos that play well and are entertaining will always sell well. If you are looking for extended value I would have to say an original in above average condition would be better for value than a refurbished one.

    I think as stated above we are all in this for different reasons. For the ones that have been in it longer I do not think they would say their is alot of profit in it. This to most of us is just a hobby and with the exception of a few hobbies you usually do not make alot of money. You have to sell it first and most of us do not sell.

    That being said I do recycle alot with Mopar being the benificiary of most of my recycles.
    Over the hills and threw the woods, pachi hunting we go.
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    Tokie Owens wthford's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    If you do it right, to restore is to make "original" again. This taken from Meriam Webster dictionary website... so technically, restored and original could/should be the same thing. I thik ideally, all we would ever do to these is clean them...

    But my opinion is that a PROPERLY restored item will bring more money...

    restore[ri-stawr, -stohr]

    –verb (used with object), -stored, -storing.
    1. to bring back into existence, use, or the like; reestablish: to restore order.
    2. to bring back to a former, original, or normal condition, as a building, statue, or painting.
    3. to bring back to a state of health, soundness, or vigor.
    4. to put back to a former place, or to a former position, rank, etc.: to restore the king to his throne.
    5. to give back; make return or restitution of (anything taken away or lost).6.to reproduce or reconstruct (an ancient building, extinct animal, etc.) in the original state.
    Last edited by wthford; 11-11-2009 at 06:34 PM.
    I'm not gonna sell my encylopedia Britannica's just yet...

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    Pachi Puro pinball wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    i tend to look at both sides.i would prefer something original with maybe a little signs of wear,but otherwise in presentable condition.i would leave it alone,and do nothing but clean it up.on the other hand,something in terrible shape which needs a complete teardown and restoration,feel free to customize it if you wish .if it doesn't look original, but in presentable condition when it is finished ,and you saved it from the garbage can,that is also fine.i have done both.it depends on what you start with.as far as value,i think it all depends on who is looking to buy it.just like with classic / antique cars.some collectors will pay big bucks for a well maintained car in original ,unmolested , very good condition,but not perfect.others will pay the big bucks for the restored and customized car.

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    Tokie Owens wthford's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    i think it all depends on who is looking to buy it
    exactly. An item is worth what the market will bear. It will change from day to day, and doesn't even always have to do with condition, but more how badly the buyer wants the item. An interesting topic with no one answer. However, many buyers will go with the "closest to stock" item IMO.
    I'm not gonna sell my encylopedia Britannica's just yet...

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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    im totaly about original... period.. fixing a machine that is broken or cleaning up a machine that is trash is different..

    i think of it like this


    its only original once... restoring to as original condition is still restored... for me less is way more

    great thread Rusty
    Never Doubt that a small group of thoughtful, .......... /........ If your not going to stand behind our troops
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    I absolutely agree with you Mopar. This Daiichi I just picked up will be a perfect example. I believe I got very lucky on it. It's all there, works, and is just in need of minor cleaning. There is one broke piece I notice right to the left of the jackpot mechanism. That and a broken ear on the hopper is all that is really "broken" about it. I plan to do very little. Clean chrome, glass, aluminum. How do you all feel about peg removal and cleaning? Clean em' or leave em'?

    My father in law restores mechanical musical instruments, as do I. He's done a lot more than me, but he says exactly the same thing you say Mopar, and I've heard him say it more than once... LESS IS MORE.

    It all depends really on whether you think the machine in question has any true value, or is it going to EVER have value. If you think that is does, or may, then I would use the less is more approach.

    I know a guy that has a black 50's Les Paul with gold trim. When we were younger, we tried a cleaner on the bridge of it to clean it. We took the finish off of it. No biggie at that time, but a guitar like that in pristine condition now is worth near 3 grand. You just never know what these things might be worth down the road.

    Mine, I'm gonna take it real slow, ask you guys a lot of dumb questions, and get it right.
    I'm not gonna sell my encylopedia Britannica's just yet...

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    Mr. Vintage wrkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Great responses which made for great read! Thanks to all who've responded and I would encourage more to respond. Especially if you are new to the Pachinko addiction as more views from new eyes would be welcomed.

    I see a few common thoughts here:

    1. We all realize that something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for.
    2. Very few, if any, are into this for the money but rather for the love of the damn things.
    3. To find a perfect condition, unrestored machine would be the ultimate and bring a expoential higher price... compared to one of the same year/model.
    4. Going back to the classification system, I think anything 'vintage' and newer probably should be restored unless it is already in pristine condition.
    5. Anything Classic Vintage or earlier is probably best left unrestored AS LONG AS it works well and there are no major visual flaws.

    With my machines, up till now, my goal was the clean them up enough to make them playable and pleasing to the eye. Since I have only Vintage machines and on early mondern, based on what I learned here, I will most like take one at a time and do a full restoration on them... in my spare time !

    Keep the comments coming! Great job everyone!
    Rusty Key

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    Sandwich Shooter ebb's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Great post Rusty

    I think less is more especially if the machine plays well.
    Shinny nails on a 30 year old piece of art is kinda like putting a classic painting in a modern frame. It just doesn't look right

    If your bringing a parts machines back to life then I go for it otherwise
    I would leave it be
    DON'T FEED THE

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    Gibisans - Japan West compirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    You can restore any machine you want, old or new. I don't think it will take away from the value, not here anyway. Very very few people are going to know whether a machine is worth anything or not. Other than Pre-Masamura, the only couple machines I can think of are first electric shooters and the first Fever machine, and of course, anything 'different' .

    人生は恐れなければ、とても素晴らしいものなんだよ。
    人生に必要なもの。それは勇気と想像力、そして少しのお金だ。

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    be vewy vewy quiet im hunting pachis... Lt Teddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Quote Originally Posted by compirate View Post
    You can restore any machine you want, old or new. I don't think it will take away from the value, not here anyway. Very very few people are going to know whether a machine is worth anything or not. Other than Pre-Masamura, the only couple machines I can think of are first electric shooters and the first Fever machine, and of course, anything 'different' .

    Now does that mean anything different is valuable.
    Over the hills and threw the woods, pachi hunting we go.
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    Pachi Puro Moparformances's Avatar
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    Default Re: More value - Restored or original?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt Teddy View Post
    Now does that mean anything different is valuable.
    Yes Lt that means u have value...



    lots of VALUE!!!
    Never Doubt that a small group of thoughtful, .......... /........ If your not going to stand behind our troops
    ...committed people can change the world. ............. /.................Please, Please stand in front of them
    .....Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has............./
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