Aruze Patent explains how pachislos work.

[gwarzin]

Here's a patent that Aruze filed in the U.S. It is for providing the player with advance notice that he will win a small payout, like 3 bells, on a given spin. But the most interesting part of the patent is the description of how pachislos work, complete with info on random number generators, the flags set by the microprocessor, etc. You'll find this info starting about half way through the text of the patent.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...;RS=PN/6315289

Also note that if you want to look at the diagrams in the patent you will need to install a special TIFF viewer plug-in. You can find out more about that here:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

[Tulsa]

Really nice find! Wow, I'm going to have to read that tomorrow.

[dlowrey]

I guess bad English is OK in patent applications... :-)

[Nikoman]

Very Interesting- confusing- but interesting.
I copied some diagrams onto word.

Process Flow
http://home.comcast.net/~tdicaprio/w...ocess_Flow.doc

CPU Diagram
http://home.comcast.net/~tdicaprio/wsb/html/CPU.doc

You can either open the word file or save it to your computer or disk.

[slotter]

Here's a patent that Aruze filed in the U.S. It is for providing the player with advance notice that he will win a small payout, like 3 bells, on a given spin. But the most interesting part of the patent is the description of how pachislos work, complete with info on random number generators, the flags set by the microprocessor, etc. You'll find this info starting about half way through the text of the patent.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...;RS=PN/6315289

Also note that if you want to look at the diagrams in the patent you will need to install a special TIFF viewer plug-in. You can find out more about that here:

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

Uh... well, I did read a lot of this. So, can you give a synopsis? :lol:

Great find, btw!

[gwarzin]

Uh... well, I did read a lot of this. So, can you give a synopsis?

I think the short version is that most of the time the outcome of any given spin is determined by using a random number generator and a lookup table and is done at the time you push the start joystick, not when you press the stop buttons. However, there are occasionally special modes in which the random number generator is turned off and the stop buttons actually do come into play.

[slotter]

Does this mean (most time) we are wasting time attempting to stop the reels in a certain order? If it is pre-determined whether we win or lose when first hitting the joystick, I'd think that is the case?

Saying the above, perhaps, when it is in the "win" mode (Whatever that might be depending on the machine) we CAN have some control over where the reels stop.

In the future, think I'll wait until in Chance or whatever mode to really attempt to stop the reels.... :lol:

[Tulsa]

That's essentially it. Sometimes it's chance and sometimes it's skill so I guess over all it's chill. So chill out the next time you play! :lol:

[cwstnsko]

That's what I've decided too. During most of the game, you can "practice" eye-shooting, but you're not going to turn a spin that was pre-determined to be a loser into a winner. By practicing, you can capitalize on the opportunities to hit when it makes a difference.

[delphicoder]

So, help me understand then. If I am "eye shooting", and the computer has already decided that it will be a win before I press the stop buttons, then I am controlling which "win" by eye shooting?

If the system knows ahead of time that it will be a non win, then I can eye shoot all I want. It is just not going to be a hit.

If I understand eye shooting anyway, all it does is help put you in a winning range. You never really "stop" as soon as you press the button. There are like 4 symbols it can "roll" to until it has to stop.

Does this seem reasonable?

[arbycoffee]

If I understand eye shooting anyway, all it does is help put you in a winning range. You never really "stop" as soon as you press the button. There are like 4 symbols it can "roll" to until it has to stop.

Does this seem reasonable?

Thats called slipage you take that in acount, like leading in a shot on a running deer.

[gwarzin]

So, help me understand then. If I am "eye shooting", and the computer has already decided that it will be a win before I press the stop buttons, then I am controlling which "win" by eye shooting?

No. If you are in normal play the random number generator has already decided not only if you are going to win, but what that win will be. No matter what you do with the stop buttons, you will land on the appropriate symbols. The computer will just let the reels slip enough to make it to the next available instance of that symbol.

It's sort of like those times that the machine lets you know what you're going to win ahead of time. Like when a Spin Luck flashes a brief yellow light on the reels just as you pull the joystick. That means you will win with 3 bells. And then it forces the reels to stop on three bells.

The fact that you might not actually hit those 3 bells every time has more to do with the random numbers than your skill with the stop buttons.

Here's an example (with made up numbers, since I don't know the exact odds - but the principle is the same). The machine might be programed to decide that 1 time out of 25 (on average) it will give you a hint about the next win. Then, on that 1 time out of 25, 3 times out of 4 it will actually give you that win as a payoff, 1 time out of 4 it will not payoff. Even though the machine makes you "feel" that you had something to do with hitting or missing that win, it really determined it all in advance using a random number generator and a lookup table that is based on all the odds they designed into that particular machine.

Only in those modes where they have decided to deliberately let the reels stop based on the use of the stop buttons instead of a random number, will you have any real control.

If you think about it, it pretty much has to be that way. They let the parlors set the payout percentage of each machine. The parlor expects that machine to then deliver the proper income flow based on the payout percentage. If skill really had much to do with it, some players would win more and others would win less. In the long run it just doesn't happen that way. Over 100,000 plays both a good player and a bad player will get roughly the same payback. And, I think it does all this based solely on random numbers. I don't believe they are allowed to let the machines actually keep track of how much a machine takes in or pays out (except for accounting purposes). While they might track that data for accounting purposes, they can't use it to alter the play of the machine. That is, if you just hit a big bonus, your odds of hitting a big bonus on the next play are exactly the same as they were last time. It's just like rolling dice, the machine doesn't remember historic outcomes.

[delphicoder]

Then, the term "skillslot" means nothing then? Or does eye shooting / skill come into play during bonus rounds, which I think another post suggested.

Otherwise, I don't see how they differ any more than a regular slot machine.

[gwarzin]

Yes, there are certain times in the game when you do have control.

[Utopia1dc]

This randomness is then bad news for us Pachi lovers. As I see it, as more and more legislators find out this information, they will deem Pachilso's the same as regular slot machines. Which in most states are illegal to own, sell, distribute, etc... So I guess we will see more states ban our toys as time goes on. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[azlew]

This randomness is then bad news for us Pachi lovers........................

That plus descriptions like they are full size slots, the word's Las Vegas used in ads to sell them etc. Plus the auctions and ads for 25 cent quarter conversions or that the tokens are quarter size (thus planting in the buyers mind...ahha!!) and sales of bandit arms to be installed plus belly glass that indicate anything about US Slots (Triple Diamond,Blazing Sevens & Wheel Of Fortune) etc.
All this stuff makes Pachislos look like the next big gambling item in the US. And since it is going to be viewed that way then it is going to be viewed by legislators etc seeking office.

The problem is that the state governments and in some cases the indians have unlimited taxpayers funds to fight Pachislo sales. And the pachislo dealers probably can't warrant the legal costs of fighting it.

My personal opinion is that if Pachislos were sold strickly as Japanese Pachislos without all the references that they are full size slot machines from international casinos etc, that they would still be ok to have in most of the states that now are fighting it.

But I live in Arizona and all is ok.....for now :wink:

[cwstnsko]

I know that during the bonus rounds on Manbou, I can eye-shoot a 15 credit win, or time it poorly and get nothing. At other times when the machine is indicating a bonus soon, I think I get the bonus quicker by eye shooting, but it is probably my imagination.

On Aladdin, The sequence of pressing the reel buttons seems to have an effect on the amount of payout during all stages of the game. I'm pretty sure the machine is giving indications as to what to do, but I'm just starting to learn how to read the signs to hit the small prizes more often.
I think you can easily lose a small prize that the machine is trying to give it to you, but I don't think you can make a loser or a small prize into a Bonus by eye-shooting.

When "practicing" eye shooting, I can usually get 2 of the 3 symbols dead on, but not the 3rd, even though it is timed just right. I think I lose some small prizes by trying to eye-shoot 7s when the machine wants to give me bells or jacs.

Probably my imagination, but this is what I like to believe, and I'm having fun and that's all that counts

[arbycoffee]

How true, they will be like hiching posts g o n e

[evh347]

I think "eye shooting" is just baloney during non-chance modes.
I think 'sandwich shooting' is also baloney.

During non-chance modes of play on my Don Don King, I will "practice" eye-shooting and I can almost always shoot a 7 in the 1st and 2nd reels...but the machine will not allow a 3rd unless you're in chance.

During non-chance modes, I will shift my attention towards hitting bells and replays since hitting a RB or BB is impossible.

Also, the order of how the reels are stopped DOES matter. If I shoot left to right...I almost always end up with a different result (win or lose). However, if I shoot right to left...or middle and anything else...I will 99% of the time get a bell on reels #2 and #3 on the centerline pay and a bell will miss (slip) just below the centerline pay (bottom left).

During "chance" mode...its anybody's game, but in non-chance...you're just wasting your time trying to hit a RB or BB. The machine has to give some sort of signal...a chirp, a light, a noise...something to indicate that a RB or BB is nearing or I just try to hit bells...etc.

[Tulsa]

You can usually eye-shoot the first two and miss on the third. It's still a great practice round for your timing when it counts. The machine will slip the third reel quite often. Unless it's a Yamasa, then, it's just too fast to worry about.